I have a feeling that before we pass on to this we ought to refer back to the enemy’s attack in Colossians. No doubt if we are dependent the Lord will help us as to allocation of time.

• We have experienced attacks of recent years in connection with the working of the mind, as it says,
  • “entering into things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by the mind of his flesh, and not holding fast the Head”.

• We have each one to be on our guard, lest we should become the one referred to.
  • “See that there be no one who shall lead you away”.

• We have to recognise the possibility of anyone of us being that one.

• That one may be a valued brother who has served, or he may be an unbeliever who is merely a professor, got in unawares; but scripture just leaves it: “See that there be no one”.

• We have to watch lest anyone of us might be that “one” in our locality, by letting our minds run uncontrolled, which is unclean and an abomination in the sight of God.

• And I think we should pay attention to Mr. G’s remark that the attack in Colossians 2: 8 is an attack on the truth of the Godhead; it is an attack on Christ, but relative to the truth of the Godhead.

• Human philosophy would endeavour to define the Godhead, and wherever that happens, it leads to limiting Christ in some way.

• The danger recently has been to limit Christ to the place He has taken as Man on our side – not in doctrine; persons may hold right doctrine as to His Person and yet, in their thoughts and responses, limit Him to what He is in grace as Man on our side. So it says here
  • “for in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily”,

• which gives us an idea of the glory which attaches to the position of
  • “Christ in [or among] you”, “and ye are complete in him”.

• Now we cannot define that, but it is “all the fulness”. It shows that we cannot put limitations upon the Person of Christ, because all the fulness of the Godhead dwells in Him bodily.

• Again, in chapter 1 it says that he is the
  • “image of the invisible God”.

• Philosophy would lead men to make a graven image. A philosopher may reject the idea of a material idol, but his mind fashions, as it were, a graven image, as though his mind could compass God, as though he could define God, which cannot be.

• And so, “holding fast the head” involves that we hold the truth as to Christ’s Person, that He is the image of the invisible God, and that in Him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

• If we are not holding those truths in an affectionate way in our souls, we are not holding fast the Head.

• And then the accompanying attack which springs from the same thing, is against true response to God – chapter 2: 18 –
  • “Doing his own will in humility and worship of angels”.

• We would not think of anyone known to us bringing in the worship of angels, but it is around us in christendom, where there is the attempt to define Godhead in creeds on the one hand, and the bringing in of inovations into the worship of God on the other.

• Those are the two ways in which the attack develops. And preservation in both respects lies in holding fast the Head as presented in this epistle.

• I thought it was right to make those few remarks because we know we have all suffered from these attacks, and we each have to watch lest we become serviceable to the enemy.

P.H.H. Do you think there is a certain kind of safeguard in what beloved J.N.D. and others have said, that, while we must distinguish the Persons of the Godhead, we can never separate Them. So that even when we are thinking of Christ, the thought of the Trinity is very near.

G.R.C. John’s gospel emphasises that, because if we think of our place of blessing and privilege, the Lord says

• “In that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me and I in you”;

• and the knowledge of that is based on the fact that the Spirit is given, abiding with us and in us. That is, the Trinity is involved. And so in John 17, He says
  • “that they may be one as we are one; I in them and thou in me”.

• That also involves the gift of the Spirit, “that they may be one as we are one”. The Son is in us, and the Father in the Son, but it involves the Trinity.

G.H.S.P. Would it be right to think that Colossian protection is carried into Ephesians in the reference to the helmet of salvation?

G.R.C. Very good. It is right to go on to the conflict in Ephesians because, while the Colossian attack is to prevent us reaching Ephesians, yet, having reached Ephesians, we must not think that the conflict is over; on the contrary we are to put on the panoply of God. You are thinking of the helmet as protecting the head, the mind, especially?

G.H.S.P. Yes, the need of having our minds under control all the time.

E.J.H. Would not both of these attacks be through the mind, and would that make us very careful lest our own minds should intrude in divine things?

G.R.C. That word intrude is a good one in this connection, the human mind intruding into what is beyond it completely; and we have to watch that in ourselves and unsparingly judge it, and dependently feel our way with the Spirit.

• These are waters to swim in; we would like to feel our feet always, and feel we have compassed something, but in these great matters of the fulness, we shall never, to use the figure, be able to feel our feet.

P.H.H. Is that why the anointing, the unction is so emphatically brought forward by John in his epistle, where he speaks particularly of anti-christ?

G.R.C. Very good. It shows that the simplest believer is protected. You have an unction from the Holy One, and know all things.

• It does not mean that such persons do not need teaching; it does not mean that they know everything;
  • but they know all things in the sense of being able to discern all things that are presented to them, whether they are truth or error;

• and the simplest soul, who has the Spirit, if he is simple and dependent, has this capacity.

• However delusive the speech may be, however deceitful, if we rely on the unction we shall be preserved.

E.C.L. Would you say, in that connection, that it is safer to trust the body of the saints than what might be put forward by any individual person?

G.R.C. I think so. The word in Corinthians is

• “Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge”.

• The others have the capacity to judge what the prophets say; I cannot, exactly, judge of what I say; but those listening, as having the anointing
  • – “so also is the Christ”, views the saints as anointed – have the capacity to judge whether what is said “is of God or of man.

J.M. Does this thought come through from the Thessalonian position,

• “Quench not the Spirit; do not lightly esteem prophecies, but prove all things, hold fast the right”, 1 Thessalonians 5: 19?

G.R.C. Yes. The assembly, as such, is the priestly company. Priestly discernment by the anointing is there, and the priests can judge of levitical activities.

A.H. Does Numbers 4: 16 help, where Eleazer may be said to represent the great weight of spiritual judgment that exists amongst the brethren? Is it not confirming to our souls when that great weight of spiritual judgment, begins to take on the truth? We may then rest assured that it is the truth.

G.R.C. And another thing that is very encouraging is that the brethren are ready to take on the truth because the Spirit has gone before.

• What you find, when God is bringing out something fresh, as we speak – I do not mean something new which the apostles had not, but something fresh, which we have not had – that the Spirit creates desires and aspirations in the saints universally for it;
  • and as soon as it is presented, they say ‘This is what we want; it just meets the thirst of our souls’.

• The Spirit has created that thirst.
  • “As a hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God”, Psalm 42: 1.

• The Spirit produces that thirst so that, as soon as a thing begins to come forward you find the saints all over the world alive to the matter.

• As to the truth as to God, which has come out in recent years, no man could have stopped it; the saints all over the world were alert, and prepared by the Spirit to discern and receive it.

E.C.L. Is Satan’s activity therefore levelled against the saints in the way that he seeks to nullify the effect of the truth, and the formation which takes place by the truth?

G.R.C. Yes; and so Ephesians 6 is our struggle.

• The Lord bas had, if we may speak reverently, His struggle – ours is nothing as compared with His, He has dealt with him that had the power of death, and with death itself; they are things we could not do.

• But there is our struggle.
  • “Our struggle is not against blood and flesh”.

• We have to look behind the instruments; we have nothing against blood and flesh; but our struggle is
  • “against principalities, against authorities, against the universal lords of this darkness, against spiritual power of wickedness in the heavenlies”.

• As God brings the truth forward, there is an enormous array of power engaged in seeking to darken the minds of the saints, and it is a question as to whether anyone of us may lend himself to those darkening powers. We may do it unwittingly, hence the need for vigilance.

W.S.S. When you speak of what the Spirit is doing among the saints in connection with fresh impressions which are coming, as we might say, from the glory, we would desire, would we not, that they might permeate the whole body? We would hold them for all saints?

G.R.C. We have to go on with those who are available for these great matters, while

• “praying at all seasons, with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching unto this very thing with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints”, Ephesians 6: 18

• Our affections and desires go out to all saints, and we hold what we have for all saints.

P.H.H. Would you say in regard of the great array of power that is spoken of in Ephesians 6, that Ephesians 1: 19, 20 also has part.

• “What the surpassing greatness of his power towards us who believe, according to the working of the might of his strength, in which he wrought in the Christ in raising Him”.

• Is that the power that is available towards the saints in order to meet all this great array mentioned later?

G.R.C. I think so. And one has been impressed with the fact that the Almighty God – El – Who made Himself known to Abraham, made known His almighty power to him in an inward way.

• Soon He will manifest His almighty power publicly, in the resurrection of the saints, and in the ordering of all things
  • but, speaking for oneself, one has been inclined to think of the Almighty God only as acting relative to circumstances.

• But the way He was made known to Abraham indicates that we, at the present time, as Abraham’s children, are to prove the almightiness of God’s power inwardly through the gift of the Spirit.

• The covenant of circumcision comes in there, which implies the gift of the Spirit, no confidence in the flesh.

• Abraham actually proved the almighty power of God inwardly in his own body and in Sarah’s body, in a physical way, by receiving inward strength.

• Ephesians develops the surpassing greatness of His power towards us who believe. The resurrection of Christ is actual, but that great power which wrought there is
  • “towards us who believe, according to the working of the might of his strength”.

• And it is working in us according to chapter 3.
  • “According to the power that works in us”.

• I think we need to have faith in the almighty power of God in the Spirit. What is utterly impossible according to nature is a glorious possibility to be proved by us.

• The almightiness of the Spirit in power in the believer, quickens us so that we are vitally in the truth, and able, by Him to meet every hostile force.

E.C.L. Why do you think it required such might to raise Christ? I was wondering whether the authorities and powers mentioned in chapter 6, would challenge God’s right to raise one Man from among the dead. If One Man were raised God could raise millions.

G.R.C. The raising of Christ from among the dead involved the raising of the saints.

• J.B.S. said, I think, that all the saints went up with Him in the mind of God; that is why the power is so usward.

• Not only was death holding us in the grave, but we were dead in offences and sins; all the powers of darkness would have held us there.

• But God has wrought in the surpassing greatness of His power in raising the Christ from among the dead, involving in its filling out, our resurrection.

• The next chapter shows that we are already, by this almighty power, quickened, and raised up together and made to sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus.

J.McK. You mean that although this is historical as to Christ, every moral issue that restricted the movements of God in the heavenlies was raised and resolved when Christ was raised? I think it is happy to get an enlarged view of this chapter, generally. Perhaps we have restricted it to what is historical in Christ.

G.R.C. The next chapter shows that we must not do that. It shows what was involved; we were not only dead, but dead in offences and sins. It was like the gates of brass holding us there.

J.McK. And you view all those matters as being resolved when God raised Christ?

G.R.C. I do.

P.H.H. Would you say some more about that. I understand that chapter 2: 5 is actual, we being dead in offences, God has quickened us together with Christ. That is actual, is it not?

• The rest, perhaps, is in a way, anticipative, but do you mean that it becomes present to us through what God has done in the actual raising Christ Himself?

G.R.C. Chapter 2 shows how the surpassing greatness of His power has operated towards us who believe.

• Chapter 1: 19 says “according to the working of the might of his strength which he wrought in the Christ”,

• but then, how is it operative toward us? Chapter 2 sets this out,
  • “God, being rich in mercy, because of his great love wherewith he loved us, (we too being dead in offences), has quickened us with the Christ, (ye are saved by grace), and has raised us up together, and has made us sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus”.

P.H.H. So that the raising us up together and making us sit down together can be a present thing known by the power of the Spirit in the assembly?

G.R.C. We ought to have some sense of it now, at this moment, for we are not exactly in the earthlies as we sit here. The Lord speaks of the earthlies in John 3, that is the literal word,

• “If I have said the earthlies to you, and ye believe not, how, if I say the heavenlies to you, will ye believe?”

• Well we are not exactly in the earthlies now, we are sitting down together in moral elevation, and if the Spirit is free with us, He would give us a sense of this very thing, that God has made us sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus.

F.C.E. Would 2 Corinthians 6: 18 speak of the conditions whereby we can experience God in His almightiness?

G.R.C. It is to those who come out from among them and are separate that the Lord Almighty says He will be a Father. That would include what is circumstantial;

• but I believe the primary idea in the Almighty as applied to us is that we should know the almightiness of God’s power inwardly through the gift of the Holy Spirit.

• And I think Ephesians chapter 1 and chapter 3 would bring out the Almighty from that standpoint.

C.R.B. Do you think the experience of this inward working and power would draw out from our souls worship to the Spirit as recognising the amazing work He is carrying out in this inward way?

G.R.C. Quite so. The quickening is surely by the Spirit. Abraham was conscious of his body being quickened; it says he believed in God who

• “quickens the dead and calls the things which be not as being”.

• God is going to quicken our bodies, but we are already quickened inwardly by the Spirit. And what we are as the assembly surely rests on this almighty quickening power of God. We might say, How could this come about,
  • “the assembly, which is His body, the fulness of him who fills all in all”?

• Such a vessel could only be brought into being by the almighty power of God. Unbelief would say, it is impossible, but it is not impossible. It is viewed as already accomplished.

J.M. Do you think that the power towards us would help us to enter into the greatness of God’s triumph in the present age, the coming age, and then the coming ages, as it says in chapter 2: 7?

G.R.C. It is a marvellous triumph. And now, if we continue our theme, we have thought of what Christ is to the assembly in Colossians, but now it is a question of what the assembly is to Christ. She is His body, she is a worthy counterpart.

• “I will make him a helpmate, his like”.

• And here she is, “His body the fulness of Him who fills all in all”.

• The greatness of the assembly comes out here as the true helpmate and like of Christ.

• We often think of likeness to Christ in connection with His brethren, and as in 1 John 3: 2, “we shall be like Him”, and thus perhaps tend to limit the thought of likeness to the individual,
  • but the full thought of “His like” is in the assembly. “I will make him a helpmate his like”.

W.S.S. Does that mean that to be the companion of Christ she would need to understand the greatness of the position? He is Head over all things to the assembly. Thus the assembly enters into the truth of Colossians, that He is the Head of all principality and authority.

G.R.C. The theme in Colossians is that the One Who is the Head of the body the assembly is the One in Whom all the fulness of the Godhead dwells and that He is the Head of all principality and authority.

• If the assembly is to fill out her place, it necessitates, on her part, an immense appreciation of the One Who is her Head, Whose counterpart she is.

A.J.D. Would an appreciation of Christ as Head, and of what the assembly is as His body greatly promote our liberty in the worship of the Fulness; God Himself?

G.R.C. It would indeed. While Colossians gives His Headship on personal grounds, and Ephesians on official grounds, the assembly, which is His body, never ceases to regard Him in His personal greatness, because it says here,

• “the assembly which is his body, the fulness of him who fills all in all”.

• He is presented here in His official position as Head, given that place by God, and it is in that connection that the assembly is His helpmate, and His like;
  • yet He is the One Who fills all in all. No one but God could fill all in all.

• The truth of His Person is thus interwoven in Ephesians and carefully guarded.

• It has often been said that while the assembly is not united to God, yet she is united to the glorious Man Who is God, and she knows it. She never forgets that the Man to Whom she is united is God; He fills all in all.

W.S.S. Would the Psalm help. “He is thy Lord and worship Thou Him”?

G.R.C. Quite so. That glorious Man is united to the assembly, but the assembly never forgets that He is God; and she is ever maintained in a spirit of worship towards Him as such.

E.J.B. Would “His like” involve that every desire of His heart is fully met in the assembly, and every matter that He has on hand is fully entered into by the assembly alongside of Him?

G.R.C. I believe that. It is a marvellous expression, that she is His fulness. He fills all in all, and yet she is His fulness.

A.B. Would the allusions to His deity in Ephesians 1: 22 and 4: 10 be fitting as being in the intelligence of this august company, the assembly?

G.R.C. Surely. Though He has ascended above all heavens, and we shall never go there, yet it is from that altitude that He serves the assembly in love.

• The gifts are the service of Christ’s love to the assembly, and they come from that altitude. As ascended above all heavens, His love for the assembly remains in all its ardour.

E.J.B. You were going to say something more about the “fulness of him”?

G.R.C. I was going to add first that, while chapter 1: 22, gives His official place as Head, yet v. 23 “who fills all in all”, implies His Deity.

• Again, chapter 3: 8, “the glad tidings of the unsearchable riches of the Christ”,

• while referring to the Christ, the Anointed Man, implies His Deity.

• Who has unsearchable riches but One Who, though Man, is God? And then in verse 19, where again the title Christ is used, it says,
  • “and to know the love of the Christ which surpasses knowledge”,

• another expression which implies Deity. So that while we are thinking of Him in His glorious Manhood, the truth of His Deity is never absent from our minds.

• Things are predicated of Him in Manhood which could not attach to anyone Who was not God.

J.H. Does it need the exceeding greatness of His power towards us working inwardly to give refined spiritual sensitiveness so that, whilst we recognise our association with Him, as His fulness, yet there is the power inwardly to go beyond that and worship Him as God?

G.R.C. I am sure that is right. And association in the full sense depends on union, it is union that gives character to our association with Him. We have association with Him on the very highest level, as He says,

• “Where I am they also may be with me”, John 17: 24.

• Yet even there, it is “that they may behold my glory which thou hast given me”. That is a glory none can share.

T.J.G. Do not the scriptures you have referred to show how gross is the error that uses the manhood of Christ as a detraction from His Deity?

G.R.C. It is entirely wrong to use His manhood to detract from His Deity.

• While our association with Him is so intimate, yet we must never think of Him as merged among the brethren. We speak of ourselves as merging, but that is never true of Christ.

• If He sings in the midst of the assembly He never ceases to be Head of the assembly; He never ceases to be the One in Whom all the fulness of the Godhead is dwelling bodily.

J.H. In that connection I was thankful for the reference to Ephesians 2. where He has raised us up together, and made us sit down together, as though recognising our association, but retaining the distinctiveness of Christ eternally.

G.R.C. Very good.

E.B.S. Would you say another word as to Christ being united to the assembly rather than the assembly to Him.

G.R.C. I was thinking of the way it is put in Ephesians 5.

• Mr. B. has referred to the Lord seeing in the assembly as His fulness everything that His heart could desire, and that is borne out in Ephesians 5, particularly in verse 31.

• Verse 25 gives His love as expressed in death, but verse 31 shows that that love remains in all its ardour; it is the present view of it:
  • “Because of this a man shall leave his father and mother, and shall be united to his wife, and the two shall be one flesh”.

• Christ leaves other interests, precious in themselves, to be united to the assembly.

E.B.S. I thought you had that verse in mind. Is that the right order?

G.R.C. I think so. The man takes the initiative, he leaves father and mother to be united to his wife, according to this passage.

• Of course, Rebecca left her people in order to become Isaac’s wife; but this is the Ephesian view.

• The Man takes the initiative because of the attractiveness of the assembly to Him. He finds in the assembly everything that His heart delights in. It is not a downward move, it is a horizontal move.

J.C. That is in accord with Genesis 2!

P.H.H. We should be thankful for more as to union and association. I suppose you are referring to Mr. Raven’s remark that union is with the exalted Man; and association is with the Son of God. You are interweaving the two?

G.R.C. Does not J.B.S. point out that association implies kindredship, and it is a very great thing to be of His kindred, but the moment the marriage link is formed, the status is changed.

• The Queen was kindred before, she was a king’s daughter according to Psalm 45: 13, but the moment she is married to the King her status is completely changed;
  • her association with Him is now unique, because a wife’s movements with her husband are unique, she is with him in everything – her association is on the closest level.

• Other families will enjoy family relationship in their measure, but none will know association with Christ on the assembly’s level.

• We are with Him in everything, nearer to Him than any other family. Therefore our sonship is on a higher level than any other. Is that right?

P.H.H. Certainly it is. It sets the assembly, as the greatest family, in the highest place in the heavenlies. J.B.S. says, does he not, that while the person was in kinship before, union is a new move, and has to be moved into.

W.G.C. Would the verses 15, 16 and 17 help us to take on these great matters? I was thinking of

• “faith in the Lord Jesus” and love “towards all the saints” and then the reference to

• “the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, that he would give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the full knowledge of him, being enlightened in the eyes of your heart”.

• Are all these things basically necessary?

G.R.C. I think so. It is remarkable that that word ‘know’ in verse 18 is conscious knowledge. We might have thought it would be objective.

• It means that He would give us inward perception in the eyes of our hearts, to apprehend the hope of His calling. And I believe the hope of His calling embraces the truth of both union and association.

• The assembly means the “called out” company. We are called out to have this exalted place of union with Christ, and we are called out to the highest level of association with Him in sonship.

E.J.B. Would the highest level of association be seen in John 20,

• “my brethren” and then “my Father and your Father, and my God and your God”?

G.R.C. It is. And the fact that, when He comes to them, He shows them His hands and His side shows that between, as it were, the relationship of “my brethren” and movement to the full height of “my Father and your Father”, we need to know union. Do you follow what I mean?

E.J.B. Yes indeed: and the introduction of union gives special character to all that follows.

G.R.C. Yes. So that while the message refers to “my brethren” and then “my Father and your Father and my God and your God” in coming to them, and showing His hands and His side, He supplies that other feature of the truth which is essential.

P.H.H. I do not think that can be over emphasised. Sometimes we tend to leave out the assembly’s link with Christ; but this must have its place if the assembly is to function as the vessel of praise to God.

G.R.C. So chapter 3 is the assembly relative to God, endowed with the unsearchable riches of the Christ, which involves the truth of union.

• Think of all that Solomon endowed the assembly of Israel with. He was their beloved.

• But our Beloved endows the assembly with unsearchable riches, so that we lack nothing in the service Godward. That is what is in mind in chapter 3.

G.W.B. Is the assembly necessary for God’s complete thoughts of man as in Genesis 1 and 2? It says

• “God created man, in the likeness of God made he him, Male and female created He them”, Genesis 5: 1.

G.R.C. That links with chapter 1: 22-23. There is the Man, the Christ, but there is the assembly which is His body, His fulness.

• But in chapter 3 she is viewed as endowed with the unsearchable riches of the Christ, in order to be engaged in the service of God now.

• This is not testimony to men, it is testimony to principalities and authorities in the heavenlies; but it is the testimony that flows from the service of God proceeding in the assembly at the present time.
  • In that service is “made known through the assembly the all-various wisdom of God, according to the purpose of the ages, which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and access in confidence by the faith of him”.

• Why have we this boldness? Because we are so rich! We are not at a loss in the service of God because the unsearchable riches of the Christ are our endowment;
  • we are under His headship; everything is at the direction of the King in this glorious service Godward, and wisdom is resident in Him, and available to us.

• We are so well equipped in Christ, that in Him, “we have boldness and access in confidence by the faith of him” to the highest levels to which the creature can go.

B.J.B. What you have said as to God’s eternal purpose for the assembly at the present time is most impressive.

G.R.C. How we would desire to make way for the power that works in us, because all this is a glorious possibility at the present time.

W.S.S. And it will take us off our feet. You spoke about our wanting to feel our feet. This would give us the waters to swim in, would it not?

G.R.C. It is waters to swim in. It does not say where the access is to. It is one of those passages in scripture where things are left open. We know there is always a creature ceiling, but no ceiling is mentioned here.

E.C.L. Do you think this verse would also involve what we had in the Colossians, the order which is found in the assembly, and is not that the background from which everything operates Godward? If there is not order, what can be seen by the principalities and powers of the wisdom of God?

G.R.C. Quite so. Things must be in order on the Corinthian line in the local setting if we are to touch this. And then the appreciation of Christ on the Colossian line must be there. And now this service proceeds.

• The type of this is seen in the Queen of Sheba. She was an earthly principality, taking account of the earthly Solomon,
  • but here we have heavenly principalities taking account of the heavenly Solomon, relative to the assembly.

• What left her with no more spirit in her was his ascent by which he went up. And that is the position of the assembly now. The Lord moves us, and in Him we have boldness. We move up with Him. What an ascent!

R.D.H. Why is faith brought in “By the faith of him”, verse 17 is through “faith”.

G.R.C. Because the whole position is in faith while we are here. There is nothing for human sight.

• So long as we are here everything depends on faith on the one hand, and on the Spirit on the other.

• In Glasgow in 1947 J.T. gave a word in the morning meeting on
  • “rejoicing and seeing your order, and the firmness of your faith in Christ”, Colossians 2: 5,

• and he said we need to be held in faith right through to the end of the service.

J.McK. Do you think that there is no situation calling for more faith than our place in the heavenlies?

G.R.C. Quite so. It says there “ye are saved by grace, through faith”.

J.McK. And are you implying that the truth of verse 10 makes contingent the conditions and state pursued in the subsequent verses? Testimony to the heavenlies really involves the saints constitutionally and in formation being built up so as to be in this realm?

G.R.C. I am sure it does. This is the heavenly priesthood functioning. It says of Christ that if He were on earth He would not be a priest. He is the heavenly priest, and this is assembly service proceeding in the heavenlies.

A.G.B. Might the reference to Sarah in Hebrews 11 link the matter of faith and strengthening together it says “by faith Sarah” and then “she received strength” – in view of this inward matter, relative to the Christ?

G.R.C. We need to be prepared to receive strength for these great matters, because the apostle is praying in order that what he sets out earlier might be brought to pass. We often go over the prayer, but forget what he is praying for.

• He is praying that verses 10, 11 and 12 might be brought about. We need the Father to strengthen us,
  • “according to the riches of His glory, with power by His Spirit in the inner man that the Christ may dwell, through faith in our hearts, being rooted and founded in love, in order that we may be fully able to apprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and depth and height; and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge; that we may be filled even to all the fulness of God”.

• It is thus that the service suggested in verses 10, 11 and 12 will proceed in power.

E.J.H. Is ‘together’ a characteristic word, as suggesting that everyone of us should be exercised to get the full gain and preciousness of the position

• It says “raised up us together”, “made us sit down together”, “all the building fitted together” and later, “from whom the whole body, fitted together”.

• I was thinking of the wonderful conception that every member of the assembly is to have a vital part in this. And that is the glory that attaches to the whole position.

G.R.C. In verse 10, where it says, “might be made known through the assembly the all-various wisdom of God”, it must refer to the saints thus fitted together.

J.B.S. Would the type of Asnath, the priestly feature, in relation to Joseph, help here?

G.R.C. It is an interesting type. She was the daughter of a priest. I think it links with the testimony down here rather than the testimony to princi­palities and authorities in the heavenlies.

• That is to say, the assembly lies behind the going forth of the gospel and the securing of worshippers is in view. Joseph went out over the land of Egypt after he had been given Asnath, and his name means
  • “saviour of the world”,

• which reminds us of John 4. But this passage would link with Solomon and the greatness of his ascent.

J.M. Would it include for us Christ singing God’s praises in the midst of the assembly?

G.R.C. I think so.

P.H.H. It is Christ in the centre of the universe, is it not? It is not only faith as opposed to sight, but faith as embracing the whole position.

G.R.C. Christ dwelling in our hearts by faith, as you say, means that we apprehend Him as the centre of the universe.

W.McI. Does that bear a reference to God Who created all things? You are speaking of the heavenly priesthood operating. Do things begin at the top in relation to the filling out of all things.

G.R.C. Very good. In the worship of God creation is not to be absent from our thoughts, because the assembly, as at the centre of the system with Christ, is to give a lead to the whole creation, heaven and earth, in the praise of God.

W.S.S. As having Christ in our hearts as the centre of the universe, by the Father’s Spirit, are wenot brought into accord with the Father in His thoughts of Christ?

G.R.C. We are, and thus we are strengthened to come into this great position and the effect is that we are

• “filled even to all the fulness of God”.

• So that the worship of God on the highest and widest level proceeds.
  • “To him be glory”.

G.H.S.P. Does not the Father have a peculiarly precious touch in this final section? You alluded in Thessalonians to our links with one another, in Corinthians to our links with the Spirit, and in Colossians to our links with Christ as Head. Have we to develop our links with the Father to touch the blessedness of the worship of God?

G.R.C. I am sure that is right. We arrive at the Fulness, in one sense, as we experience the Father’s presence.

• The Spirit is ever dwelling with us, and then the Lord says in John 17: 23 “I in them and thou in me”.

• The sense of the Father’s presence leads to the worship of the Father Himself;

• but then, since it completes matters, it makes way for the worship of God, because we are in the presence of the Fulness, the Father and the Son and the Spirit.

The epistle therefore develops the behaviour suited to those who form God’s house and the level of administration proper to the living God’s assembly.

• Instruction as to behaviour begins with prayer, chapter 2: 1,

• but chapter 5 deals with the level of administration in the assembly of the living God;
  • and whether it is in the administration of the saints’ bounty to widows and elders, or whether it is in dealing with evil, it is to be carried out as before God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, and is to be done without prejudice or favour

• The final word to Timothy is that he should keep the commandment spotless and irreproachable until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ.
  • That is, the truth is to be carried through inviolate, and our conduct maintained in conformity with the truth, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ.

• And a remarkable thing is that the heart of the apostle rises and bursts out in doxologies on the highest level.

• No doubt his heart was specially free, because he was writing to his true child in the faith in an Ephesian setting. Therefore I believe his notes of worship in this epistle disclose the depths of his soul more than any others.

We have also been speaking of conflict, and it is really extraordinary to see the diversity of the enemy’s attacks on the “Timothy” position. We have spoken of his attacks on other phases of the assembly, but his attacks on this position are great.

• According to chapter 1: 4, there were some who were turning their minds to fables. Think of that at Ephesus! This epistle would specially guard us against loose thinking.

• They were turning their minds to fables and interminable genealogies, evidently speculations on the Lord’s Person.

• Further down, verse 6, there were some who had turned aside to vain discourses, desiring to be law-teachers, another thing we have to be very careful about, lest we make laws for ourselves which are outside of the Lord’s commandment.

• Then in chapter 4 the Spirit speaks expressly about those who were giving their minds to deceiving spirits and teaching asceticism, a heresy that has made great headway in christendom,
  • “forbidding to marry, bidding to abstain from meats”.

• And in that connection he speaks of profane and old wives’ fables. Who would think of old wives’ fables at Ephesus? – souls so enlightened, and yet giving their minds to old wives’ fables.

• Finally in chapter 6: 4, he speaks about those who were
  • “sick about questions and disputes of words”.

• It is by such a variety of means that Satan would divert those who have arrived at the highest truth. They had come through other conflicts, they had arrived at the highest truth, at Ephesus, and now Satan would divert them by a variety of attacks aimed at distracting their minds.

A.H. Is what the apostle refers to in verses 15 to 17 of chapter 1, a great antedote to that? In the midst of all this opposition and attack upon the truth there was a faithful word being ministered amongst the saints which Paul epitomises in those verses.

G.R.C. That is very good. We need faithful words to meet the diversity of this form of attack. And so he says,

• “Faithful is the word, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners”.

• A person who has felt his sinnership does not need interminable genealogies to convince him of the truth as to the Person of Christ. He knows well that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, and he is one of them and, if he feels aright; he will be able to say that he is the chief.

• He knows that no one but a Divine Person could have effected the work of redemption.

• Then you will remember that he brings in other faithful words. In chapter 4: 9, as over against old wives’ fables, he says
  • “The word is faithful and worthy of all acceptation; for, for this we labour and suffer reproach, because we hope in a living God, who is preserver of all men, especially of those who believe”.

• It may be these old wives’ fables would relate to vegetarianism, and other matters of diet, and over occupation with the body. A faithful word is needed and he brings it in. Then in chapter 6: 3,
  • “If anyone teach differently, and do not accede to sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the teaching which is according to piety”.

• It is remarkable the way Paul refers back to the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, which are the basis of everything.

• Some people tell us that, because the apostles do not themselves bring out in doctrine the Name of Matthew 28: 19, it does not apply to christianity. Yet they are the words of our Lord Jesus Christ.

• I would not expect an apostle to presume to confirm His words. They hand us back, as in this case, to His words.

G.R.C. Because it is a question of behaviour, and where it is a question of behaviour suited to the house of God, it has to be applied individually.

T.J.G. These things need to be ministered constantly before the brethren.

G.R.C. Chapter 4: 6, “Laying these things before the brethren, thou wilt be a good minister of Christ Jesus, nourished with the words of the faith and of the good teaching which thou hast fully followed up”.

• The way to meet the diverse attacks, the things which Satan brings in to divert the minds of the saints, after they have reached the highest levels of the truth, is to constantly bring before them sound words, words of the faith.

G.R.C. Quite so.

E.J.H. Is there a danger of reverting to things from which we may have been delivered, things that are always pleasing to the natural mind, and our flesh? The Ephesians had many books of curious arts, had they not, in their city?

G.R.C. The interminable genealogies would be going back to philisophical reasonings and the law-teaching to Judaism.

A.C.C. Would you say a little more about the words of the Lord Jesus in connection with Matthew 28. I think that is important.

G.R.C. It is not the subject here, of course, but he says in chapter 6: 3,

• “If anyone teach differently, and do not accede to sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching which is according to piety”.

• He puts first the words of our Lord Jesus Christ. And I believe that we must give precedence to the words of our Lord Jesus Christ. We must not necessarily look for apostolic confirmation of what He said. What the King has said must stand.

W.D. Is it important to link faithful words with faithful men?

G.R.C. I am sure it is. In connection with the house of God in its public aspect, we need faithful men who are prepared to speak plainly.

• Paul speaks very plainly in this epistle, he does not mince his words at all. Think of Paul using such words as “profane and old wives’ fables”.

G.H.S.P. Do you think the Lord’s word to Ephesus in Revelation 2 throws light on the real objective behind all these diverse attacks? Is it to overthrow the constructive work of Paul in the securing of the assembly’s love for Christ?

• “Thou hast left thy first love”.

G.R.C. Quite so.

Ques. Is it touching that in Acts 20: 35 the apostle, after going over his work at Ephesus before the elders there, refers to the words of the Lord Jesus?

G.R.C. It is remarkable. “Remember the words of the Lord Jesus, that he himself said, It is more blessed to give than to receive”.

E.J.H. He mentions himself, there, 16 times. But the last impression is that of the Lord Jesus.

D.A. With regard to chapter 1: 7, would the Lord warn as to using the previous testimony of God, which was good in itself, wrongly? He says they are to use it lawfully.

G.R.C. It is a favourite tactic of the enemy to go back to what was right in its own day, and seek to use that to nullify what the Spirit is saying now. J.N.D. himself warns the saints against it. It is one of the most effective weapons of the enemy.

P.H.H. I suppose there was no more strenuous law-teacher than Paul, but here he says,

• “appointing to ministry him who before was a blasphemer and persecutor, and an insolent over-bearing man: but mercy was shewn me because I did it ignorantly, in unbelief. But the grace of our Lord surpassingly over-abounded with faith and love”.

G.R.C. Paul was never again a law-teacher after that. But do we not need to be on our guard as regards matters of order in the house of God, to keep things in their right place?

• There are things which are the Lord’s commandment, and are therefore imperative;
  • there are other things which are in the province of wisdom, and if we try to press those on the brethren as though they were the commandment of the Lord, we arouse the flesh in them.

• If they are matters of wisdom, they should be put forward as matters of wisdom, and we should have grace to wait upon one another about them. Otherwise, we are in danger of setting up a set of laws of our own.

P.H.H. Do you mean that matters of wisdom, as for instance, “to one, by the Spirit, is given the word of wisdom”, in 1 Corinthians 12: 8 is not of itself a commandment?

G.R.C. Are there not things we have learned to do under the Spirit’s leading and the Headship of Christ which are not the Lord’s commandment; they are matters of wisdom.

• The time may come when we shall get additional light and wisdom, and they may have to be modified. But a commandment can never be changed.

E.M. Would what is current require our being spiritually sensitive in relation to it?

G.R.C. I am sure it would. After the reference to the house of God in this epistle, it says,

• “the Spirit speaks expressly”.

• The Spirit is continually speaking in the house; and when anything arises which requires to be met lest the saints should be damaged, He will speak expressly. What a comfort that is!

C.R.B. Do you think the references to the living God would stress the importance of what is current, as for instance, chapter 4: 10 in the setting of piety, and chapter 3: 15

• “the assembly of the living God”?

G.R.C. I am sure that is right. The three expressions in chapter 3: 15 are of great importance.

• The first is God’s house. The One Who dwells there is the “blessed God”, chapter 1: 11, and that house is open to men. It is here that men may come in and prove what a blessed God He is. They must first know Him as Saviour.

• But they will prove, if they come into His house, what a blessed place the house is, because the blessed God dwells there.

• But then they will discover also that it is the assembly of the living God.

• All around is dead ceremonial, and formal worship, so called; but for the first time, such persons find that they are in the presence of the living God.

• That is an eye-opener, and a soul-opener, as we may say, to men who have never been in the presence of the living God before.

• Christendom around would not, from the mode of service, give an impression of the living God. It is mainly dead formality.

• But in the assembly the living God’s presence is known, and a living service is proceeding. The idea of the assembly of the living God is the place where the living God is served.

E.C.L. So is the attraction to the assembly the fact that the truth is worked out in persons?

G.R.C. Quite so. What a marvellous circle, if one might use the word, the assembly of the living God is, as composed of persons who can serve God in a living way!

• But then you see, persons coming in also need to know the truth. Such have many questions, but one in whom God is working is not sick about questions.

• It is a great pity if saints get sick about questions according to chapter 6: 4. That condition comes about sometimes because we confuse matters of commandment and matters of wisdom.

• Where adjustments are needed as to the order of things in the house of God, we can afford to adjust ourselves quickly, and not spend undue time talking over them. We are not to get sick about these questions.

• If wisdom dictates what to do, we can afford to be simple and do it, and so be free to go on with the truth.

• Persons affected by the gospel and coming into God’s house want to know the truth; they are not concerned about details. The house of God is set here that men might be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

• Men come in and they find it is God’s house, a blessed place. They find that the living God is in His assembly and is being served in a living way.

• But then what about their genuine questions as to the truth? They find that the assembly is the pillar and base of the truth. There is not a genuine question which cannot be answered.

• It shows the importance of saints going on with the truth, and not getting sick about questions and disputes of words.

E.J.B. Is it in an assembly setting that we really arrive at the truth?

G.R.C. It is. And how magnificent the truth is! God is one. What a magnificent truth! It involves the christian revelation.

• It is different from the Old Testament, “Jehovah thy God is one Jehovah”, it is “God is one”.

• This involves the Name of Matthew 28: 19, the Name of God declared, the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are One, for God is One.

• And that is how Paul is worshipping God in this epistle. He is worshipping the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit in the recognition that They are One, in the eternal majesty and greatness of Godhead.

A.J.D. What is the relevance of the expression God’s dispensation which is in faith?

G.R.C. The word dispensation, as you know, is economy in the original, sometimes translated dispensation, and sometimes administration.

• But it is the economy of God which is in faith, which really involves the revelation of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, but the over-all truth is that God is One.

• The Son has come into manhood and the Spirit is here in relation to the Son, and His interests, so that an economy has been set up, but it is the economy of God; it is not a deputed economy.

• In the old economy the great offices, such as lordship and priesthood were deputed to men, Moses was lord, and Aaron was priest.

• But in the economy of God, an economy has been set up where God Himself holds the great offices. And therefore nothing can break down. A Divine Person has come into manhood, and He is the Lord and the Priest; and the Spirit is here dwelling in the house.

• So that the house is not just a figure, as the house of old, it is the true house; God is there, dwelling.

• The Spirit is in charge of the testimony here. Our faith may break down we may depart from the faith; but the economy never breaks down, and if we are maintained in faith we shall not break down.

E.J.B. So this expression “God our Saviour”, and “our Saviour God” reminds us that He has come into the position Himself.

G.R.C. That is it exactly. We have come into an economy where, while God uses men still, yet the great offices are not deputed.

• God Himself is the Saviour, a Divine Person is the Mediator, a Divine Person is the Lord and the Priest.

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• Instead of the angel who went before the children of Israel, a Divine Person is leading us – the Holy Spirit.

J.A.F. Is that why it says the Mediator of, not between, God and men?

G.R.C. Quite so. It implies His deity.

W.W. What is the thought of the mediator?

G.R.C. I think the necessity for a mediator is two-fold. The need is evident in chapter 1: 17

• “Now to the King of the ages, the incorruptible, invisible, only God”.

• It ever remains true that God is invisible. Therefore if we were to know anything about God, we needed a mediator to express God to us.

• On the other hand, we needed a mediator because we were sinners, we needed a mediator who would give Himself a ransom for all.

W.W. We shall only know God, in time or eternity, in the Man Christ Jesus.

G.R.C. He is the image of the invisible God. He is the effulgence of God’s glory and the expression of His substance.

• Nevertheless the Father has His own way of making His presence felt. The Lord’s face was shining as the sun on the mount, but then the bright cloud overshadowed them. It is something undefined, yet we know well the Father’s presence.

A.G.B. Does the epistle to the Hebrews emphasise that the great offices are not deputed? I was thinking of the Son as the Apostle and High Priest Himself. Does that bring in stability?

G.R.C. That epistle greatly stresses the idea. God has spoken in Son; He has not deputed the speaking. And the Holy Spirit is here and is speaking.

• Then, as you say, the great offices are held by the Son. He is the Apostle and High Priest, the Son over the house, and the Builder of the house. What an economy we are in!

A.H. The apostle is bringing the great economy before Timothy so that he might go forward and maintain his part in the conflict, maintaining faith and a good conscience.

G.R.C. If we are to get the gain of this wonderful economy, it is necessary for us to maintain faith and a good conscience.

• The moment we give up faith, we are out of the economy practically.

• And the moment we give up a good conscience, faith ceases to be active. So that they depend on each other.

• But what a pity for any saints, with the light of Ephesians in their souls, to get occupied with unprofitable questions, when we are in such an economy as this.

• Let us go forward in faith in the economy and become worshippers of God, in the greatness of His Being, as Paul was.

P.H.H. You would not expect the truth in regard of the economy of God, and of God being One, to be known except by assembly persons, would you? The assembly being the pillar and base of the truth, the truth is only there.

G.R.C. And I believe that those who have attacked the higher levels, as we speak, in the service of God, are defective in the truth that God is One. I believe there is a definite defect in their souls.

P.H.H. It has been coming home to me that that is so. I suppose it magnifies not only God Himself, but it magnifies the assembly to us, as the depository, may we say, of the truth.

G.R.C. I believe that. It is assembly persons who can lay hold of this truth. It cannot be reasoned about with the human mind, but it is laid hold of and held in affectionate worship.

E.J.B. That does not mean that we are attaching things to ourselves in a sectarian way, but rather that we see that the thing stands in this connection in scripture, and we would all like to be on that footing?

G.R.C. Yes I am sure. And another thing I would say is that I believe that only in the light of christian truth can God be worshipped according to the doxology in chapter 6.

• No Old Testament saint could have uttered those words.
  • It speaks of the “blessed and only ruler … the King of those that reign, and the lord of those that exercise lordship; who only has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light”.

• Now I do not think anyone outside of the christian revelation could have said that. Actually, as regards men, God dwelt in obscurity for their sakes in Old Testament times.

• If He had come into the light before redemption was accomplished He would have had to judge men.

• We cannot apprehend unapproachable light, of course, because it is unapproachable, but why does Paul say “light”?

• How did the apostle know that in unapproachable conditions God was dwelling in light? I think it is because of the way He has come out.

W.S.S. Solomon spoke of Him dwelling in thick darkness.

G.R.C. Quite so. He was doing that for man’s sake.

• He ever dwelt in unapproachable light, but I do not think any man could have said this until the christian revelation.

• But now we know that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. And He is in the light, as far as men are concerned, in so far as He can be apprehended by the creature.

• And, knowing Him thus, we know that where He dwells in unapproachable conditions it must be light. It could not be other.

P.H.H. That is very important, if I may say so. Because it does not mean that God has exchanged the darkness for unapproachable light. He ever dwelt there.

• But for the sake of man, I think you said, and the necessity of judgment, He enshrouded Himself in darkness purposely.

G.R.C. Quite so.

G.H.S.P. Do you mean that, in the light of the economy, it is now part of the cherished christian property that God dwells in this condition, and this enters into our worship?

G.R.C. That is what I have in mind. I believe this is a note of worship which belongs to christians only. Who else could have known this? No one until this dispensation.

J.C. Would the thick darkness be a reference to the tabernacle system in contrast to what we have today?

G.R.C. I think so. God dwelt in thick darkness for man’s sake, because He could not disclose Himself then without judging men, but now, Christ having died, and redemption having been accomplished, He shines forth in His nature and character.

• And now He has shone forth we find that God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all. So when, in our thoughts, we go back to where He ever dwelt, in unapproachable conditions of Deity, we know it must be in light.

W.S.S. Does not this reference to unapproachable light give a lustre to the whole economy?

G.R.C. It is calculated to produce the deepest note of worship, I believe.

G.H.S.P. You mean that the God Who does dwell in unapproachable light, we know in blessed reve­lation in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit?

G.R.C. Exactly. And so we recognise, when we are worshipping God in this way, that we are according equal honours to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit as One in eternal majesty and might, dwelling in light unapproachable.

P.H.H. “We worship what we know” the Lord said. Does that mean that this is now part of christian knowledge? And that the knowledge therefore yields a greater depth of worship?

G.R.C. Quite so. The light itself is unapproachable, it is too intense for the creature to apprehend, but it is part of christian knowledge that God dwells in unapproachable light.

E.J.H. Could you say therefore, that while the unapproachable light remains as it is, nevertheless the economy is characterised by divine light and divine love?

G.R.C. Just so. The One Who in His own essence, dwells in unapproachable light, if He approaches men, cannot act inconsistently with Himself; and so we prove, in the way He has come out, that He is light and in Him is no darkness at all.

J.T.S. In John 1 we have, “No one has seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him”.

• Would you mind saying a word in regard to this further expression in 1 Timothy 6: 16
  • “Whom no man has seen, nor is able to see”?

G.R.C. “No one has seen God at any time” remains true, I suppose, for ever; just as it says here, “Whom no man has seen, nor is able to see”.

• In John 1: 1 it says, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”,

• and in verse 18 “No one has seen God at any time”. That is, we have never seen the Lord Jesus as in Deity.

A.B. Why are these two references to kingship in this epistle

• “the King of the ages”, chapter 1: 17, and

• “the King of those that reign, and Lord of those that exercise lordship”, chapter 6: 15?

G.R.C. It is evident that Paul was impressed with the majesty of God.

• When he is speaking of relationship and of the Father, he often speaks of blessedness.

• But here he ascribes “honour and glory”, and “honour and eternal might”.

• The King of the ages is a very majestic view of God, going back to previous ages and on into eternity to come. He remains the King, I would say, in His supremacy and headship.

C.R.B. Would you say another word please, distinguishing the ascribing of blessedness, and of glory to God?

G.R.C. This epistle speaks of blessedness, the glad tidings of the glory of the blessed God.

• When he is thinking of the glad tidings, he thinks of how blessed God is. Luke 15 has sometimes been linked with the glory of the blessed God, and His glad tidings.

• There is a good deal about blessing God in the Psalms, but I think the greatest privilege of the creature is to ascribe honour and glory to God, to ascribe to Him the greatness that is His.

C.R.B. So that the doxology at the end of Ephesians 3 uses the word ‘glory’, “to him be glory”.

G.R.C. That is why I think the two doxologies in 1 Timothy would indicate how Paul would ascribe glory to God in the assembly.

• He is writing to Timothy at Ephesus, and his feelings were very free, and I think he discloses what is in his heart towards God in His supremacy and majesty.

W.S.S. You may remember, Mr. Darby, in regard to the King of the ages, speaks of Him as the One Who has the development of all the ages in His control.

G.R.C. That is a very great and majestic view of God. As knowing God in His blessedness we worship Him with deep feelings in His greatness and majesty. Indeed it is as the blessed and only Ruler that worship is rendered to Him in chapter 6.

F.E.S. Would that doxology, and, particularly the matter of light, give a peculiar dignity to the level of piety which this epistle develops?

G.R.C. It seems remarkable that that doxology should speak of dwelling, in an epistle dealing with the house of God.

• The epistle deals with the fact that God in grace is dwelling here, amongst men, indeed dwelling in men who form His house, and yet, at the same time, He is ever dwelling in light unapproachable.

P.H.H. In John 20 the Lord says, “my Father and your Father” before “my God and your God”. The soul is thus established in the blessedness of relationship, with a view to glory and honour being ascribed to God as God?

Ques. Might I refer to the doxology in Philippians 4: 20,

• “to our God and Father be glory to the ages of ages”.

G.R.C. He brings in both titles there. We are not limiting the idea of glory to God as such, because glory is due to the Father personally. But the idea of honour and might links with God in His majesty.

A.H. Do these outbursts on the part of the apostle come from some special consideration of the truth, and should such outbursts be produced in us?

G.R.C. I believe the truth governing the apostle is that

• “God is one, and the mediator of God and men one”.

• In our worship we need to arrive at that, if God is to receive, as God, the glory that is due.

A.J.D. In Romans we are told that God is incorruptible, and in Colossians that He is invisible. Here Paul adds “and only God”.

G.R.C. That is very fine. The only God means there is no Other; He is without a rival in our affections.

T.J.G. Why does it say, “the mediator of God and men one”?

P.H.H. Is it important to see that it is God Who performs His own mediation in Christ?

G.R.C. Exactly. It was necessary that the Mediator should be “the Man”; yet, in Christ, God is approaching men Himself.

A.E.A. Is that expressed in chapter 3: 16, “God has been manifested in flesh”?

G.R.C. That great mystery is, I think, enshrined in the house of God

• In God’s house, which is the assembly of the living God, the pillar and base of the truth, verse 16 is understood.
  • “God has been manifested in flesh, has been justified in the Spirit, has appeared to angels, has been preached among the nations, has been believed on in the world, has been received up in glory”.

• It is the mystery of piety. As manifested in flesh he came into conditions which call for piety, and His conduct was such that in everything He did He was justified in the Spirit.
  • That is, the Spirit could unreservedly commit Himself to Him in every thought, action and word.

• Men did not justify Him, but the Spirit did. The Spirit committed Him­self to Him absolutely and unreservedly.

• The Spirit can only commit Himself to us in the measure in which we are marked by piety.

• The Lord Jesus in manhood here has set the divine standard. The behaviour proper to those in the house of God is that in thought, action and word they would be such that the Spirit can unreservedly support them.

L.G.B. Is that supported in Psalm 16 which refers to the blessed man who found all his resource in God, and the further word in Hebrews 5: 7,

• “And having been heard on account of his piety”?

G.R.C. Very good.

E.M. And you would say that apart from piety we would never be able to ascribe honour and eternal might to God?

G.R.C. Quite so. It is important that we should have this divine standard before us, for we belong to God’s house; the Spirit dwells in us.

E.M. And would you say that this is the zenith of worship by man?

G.R.C. I thought that. Then, following “justified in the Spirit”, it says “appeared to angels”. Well, we are under the eye of angels.

• Men are the primary objects of the testimony in this epistle, but we are under the eye of angels, just as the Lord Jesus was under the eye of angels.

F.C.E. Is that why you brought in chapter 5: 21, where administration is to be before the elect angels as well as before God and the Lord Jesus?

G.R.C. It is good to get on to the practical side. Chapter 2 refers to conduct. One had in mind to point out two elements of conduct, and the one to which Paul attaches the first importance is prayer.

• “I will, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, thanksgivings be made for all men; for kings and all that are in dignity”.

• Now that should never be lacking in our prayer meetings, nor in our family prayers. If it is lacking we have omitted that which Paul says stands “first of all” in the representation of God to men.

• Ephesians prayer, “supplication for all the saints” may come first in the prayer meeting, but if this is left out of the prayer meeting the first element of testimony is lacking.

• If a stranger came into such a prayer meeting he would not get a right impression of God’s house. It is a house of prayer for all nations.

• Then the second great element is that the women should be adorned with good works. And one would suggest that there is much more room for good works. We are to be zealous of good works.

• Good works to one another of course, but, as we have opportunity, good works to those outside, so that God may be expressed through His house.

In chapter 5, it is a question of assembly administration, and assembly giving is shown to be on a very high level. For anyone to receive of assembly giving is an honour, and to qualify for such an honour required high qualifications.

• Those who are widows indeed, are to be honoured, and elders who take the lead well are to be esteemed worthy of double honour, because,
  • “Thou shalt not muzzle an ox that treadeth out corn, and, The workman is worthy of his hire”.

• These instructions refer to assembly giving and show the high level of it.

• But then Paul refers to the disciplinary side of assembly administration, and says
  • “Against an elder receive not an accusation unless where there are two or three witnesses. Those that sin convict before all, that the rest also may have fear”.

• Then he states the level on which both sides of the administration are to be carried on. Whether it is the administration of assembly bounty, or the administration of assembly discipline. He says
  • “I testify before God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, that thou keep these things without prejudice, doing nothing by favour”; there is to be no respect of persons.

Ques. Is that where suffering comes in in relation to the testimony?

G.R.C. It does mean that, because it means sometimes we have to do violence to natural feelings and affections. These things are to be done without prejudice, doing nothing by favour. So the Lord says,

• “He who loves father or mother above me is not worthy of me”.

• We have to put the Lord first.

Ques. We would do well to accept the testimony that is rendered by two or three?

G.R.C. But then you see, against an elder you do not receive it unless there are two or three witnesses.

W.W. How does it work out that administration is in the light of the assembly, I have heard it said that the assembly has not authority, but according to John 20 it has.

G.R.C. You mean that some would question whether the twos, or threes walking in the light of the assembly have authority.

• John 20 shows that they have,
  • “Whosesoever sins ye remit, they are remitted to them; and whosesoever sins ye retain, they are retained”.

• One would desire that we might be encouraged to do things without prejudice, doing nothing by favour, even if it costs us a great deal. It is a question of what is before God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels.

G.H.S.P. This kind of activity is part of the testimony of the living God at the present time?

G.R.C. Exactly. I have just heard of a brother who has left the path because his son came under discipline. That is wrong.

• We are not to put natural affection and natural relationships before the rights of God in His house. It says “doing nothing by favour”.

J.M. Such things can become very costly to the saints. Did not Paul have to withstand Peter to the face, as he says, because even such an one as Peter was vascillating, being affected by influences?

W.G.C. Was the whole position as to the service of God preserved by Levi’s faithful stand

• “Who said to his father and mother, I see him not, and he acknowledged not his brethren, and knew not his own children; for they have observed thy word, and kept thy covenant”, Deuteronomy 33: 9.

G.R.C. That is a very important passage. And the Lord brings the force of it home when He says,

• “He who loves father or mother above me is not worthy of me”.

• It is a most touching appeal.

E.J.H. And is not this the expression of God, as Peter says,

• “I perceive that God is no respecter of persons, but in every nation he that fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him”, Acts 10: 35?

G.R.C. Yes. Peter had to learn that lesson, and our brother has referred to Paul rebuking Peter. How much we owe to Paul and his faithfulness at Antioch – Galatians 2: 11.

• Earlier, at Jerusalem he would not yield in subjection, even for an hour, to the false brethren
  • “that the truth of the glad tidings might remain with you”, Galatians 2: 5.

• He had no respect of persons. And in that connection, chapter 4: 16 should come home to us, especially those of us who are young,
  • “Give heed to thyself and to the teaching; continue in them; for, doing this, thou shalt save both thyself and those that hear thee”.

• Things may happen where those dear to us go astray, but we shall not save them by going with them. If we give heed to ourselves and the teaching and continue in them, we shall both save ourselves and those that hear us.

A.B. As regards chapter 5: 21, I was thinking of Nehemiah who says “Remember me, O my God, for good”. He had to do some things that were very drastic, but he was consciously before God in what he was doing.

T.J.G. May I ask as to verse 21? We can understand testifying “before God and Christ Jesus”. Would you say a word as to the elect angels?

G.R.C. We have come to the innumerable company of angels, the universal gathering. It is part of our inheritance, and they have their eye on all that we do, have they not?

T.J.G. Do you mean there should be the consciousness in our souls?

G.R.C. I think so. We have come to them.

L.G.B. Would they be angels who had kept their place, not abandoned their dwelling?

G.R.C. Quite so.

There are also scriptures which would give us some impression of the way the Holy Spirit is spending. We often think of Luke 10: 35

• “Whatsoever thou shalt expend more, I will render to thee on my coming back”.

• Who can measure how much the Holy Spirit is spending on the saints and on the assembly?

• And all is gathered up in Acts 20: 28 where it speaks of God,
  • “the assembly of God, which he has purchased with the blood of his own”.

• Who can measure what God has spent on the assembly? He has purchased it at the greatest possible price, the blood of His own.

• Therefore we cannot measure the spending of the Father or the Son, or the Holy Spirit in this matter. The spending, is full and unreserved, borne witness to in the fact that the Lord Jesus loved the assembly and delivered himself up for it.

Well now it is encouraging to look at Paul, because he followed the Lord Jesus so closely in this matter.

• How much Paul spent, and we are getting the gain of his spending today. If Paul had not spent without reserve we would not be here today.

• All that we have spiritually in such wealth today, is the result of Paul, and of others who have followed him, spending without reserve.

• And the challenge to us now is, how much are we prepared to spend – we who have been brought into this wealth, at such infinite cost to Christ and to God, and at such cost to Paul, and those who have followed him.

• If things are to continue and get fuller and richer, if the rising generation is to enjoy the wealth we have, and perhaps to have more, it depends, from this standpoint, on how much we are prepared to spend.

But let us think for a moment of the way Paul spent. We were noticing yesterday the joy he had in the treasure hid in the field, how he went and found the treasure at Thessalonica; the treasure referring to the personnel of the assembly; and how he hid it.

• The treasure is too precious to be other than hidden in the field. He speaks of the saints in Thessalonica as in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. They were thus hidden.

• They were not to shine in any circle in this world, they had their own family circle, the divine family, their own status. They were Thessalonians, but they were in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

• Their life was hidden, but they were not hidden in testimony. The hiding does not mean they were hidden in testimony. The more we are hidden as to our life and enjoyment, the brighter will our testimony be.

• The more divine family links are a reality, and love flowing freely, the more the word of the Lord will sound out from us. Thirsty and weary souls will be brought in.

• But as to that company, Paul says, that he and those with him would have delighted not only to impart to them the glad tidings of God, but their own lives also. He was prepared to spend his all on that company!

• And how near he was to Christ in his view of them as the treasure. He says,
  • “What is our hope, or joy, and crown of boasting? are not ye also before our Lord Jesus at his coming? for ye are our glory and joy”, 1 Thessalonians 2: 19-20.

• Paul did not find it a hard thing to contemplate laying down his life for that company. If it had been necessary, he would have laid down his life for them with delight.
  • “Ye are our glory and joy”.

• There. was not reserve in what he would have done, and what he did do, for that company at Thessalonica.

• How do we look upon our brethren? Are we in sympathy with Christ in the way we look upon them? Are our local brethren our hope and joy and crown of rejoicing? Are they our glory and joy?

• Have they such a place in our hearts that we would be glad, not only to impart what we can impart spiritually to them, but to lay down our lives for them? That was Paul!

• And he was prepared to do that, not only for his own local meeting, if we can call it that at Antioch, but for those at Thessalonica, and at every other place to which he went. How he loved the saints! How in keeping with Christ he was!

• Thus in Romans 15: 16 where he speaks of his general ministry among the nations, he says that he carried on
  • “as a sacrificial service the message of glad tidings of God”.

• All that he was, and all that he had entered into it,
  • “in order that the offering up of the nations might be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit”.

• What a treasure Paul secured as he went round. What a treasure was hid in the field. In every place he found the treasure and hid it, in his sacrificial service. And the saints through his ministry, were sanctified by the Spirit, pleasing to God.

But then, while he loved the saints personally in that way, Paul ever had in mind the idea of the pearl. We love the personnel of the assembly, but what is even more paramount is the assembly itself.

• “Having found one pearl of great value, he went and sold all whatever he had and bought it”.

• Now the pearl, dear brethren, involves the necessity of our merging. Pearl features are only found where there is unity. How dear this thought is to the heart of Christ, as we see in His prayer in John 17,
  • “Holy Father, keep them in thy name which thou hast given me, that they may be one as we”,

• referring there, no doubt, to the 12, but praying for their oneness, because upon their oneness the oneness of the church depended

• And then going on, He prayed not only for those, but
  • “also for all who believe on me through their word; that they may be all one, as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us”.

• How could we be in the Son and in the Father if we were not one? There must be this feature of unity, this pearl like character, if we are to know our place of blessing in the Son and in the Father. How could this be true of a divided company
  • “That they also may be one in us”? And then He says “the glory which thou hast given me I have given them, that they may be one, as we are one; 1 in them and thou in me, that they may be perfected into one”.

• The perfecting into one looks on to the future, But think of what is involved in the oneness, a vessel on such a level of oneness that it becomes the divine abode. How could we be the divine abode apart from unity? The Spirit is dwelling in us, but then He says
  • “I in them and thou in me”.

• That preposition ‘in’, used so much in John, denotes dwelling, in a permanent and restful way.

• The Spirit is in us, but now He says “I in them” – the Son in us – “and thou in me” – the Father in the Son; the assembly thus becomes the divine abode, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit dwelling; and all depending on oneness. How could it be otherwise?

• If we were in communion with the Lord’s own heart and desires; these holy desires expressed to His Father, how could we ever, dear brethren, set out on a divisive course?

• How could we be heartless enough to do anything that would divide the brethren? What heartlessness as to Christ, whether we realise it or not, must underlie any action of that kind!

• Paul would give all that he had to bring about unity amongst the saints. And so he says in Romans 15: 5,
  • “Now the God of endurance and of encouragement give you to be like-minded one toward another, according to Christ Jesus; that ye may with one accord, with one mouth, glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ”.

• That was his objective in his ministry among the nations – to produce, as it were, the one pearl of great value. What more apt figure of the unity of the saints than a pearl?

• How can God be glorified in praise that is other than unified? It was when they caused one voice to be heard in praising Jehovah, that the glory filled the house; and that is the great objective, one voice, one accord, one mouth.

• But we shall never get unity without suffering. A pearl is produced by suffering. Unity involves, indeed, the denial of self, and the taking up of our cross – that is the application of the cross inwardly to ourselves – and following Christ. That is the way of unity.

• And so he calls upon the God of endurance. It needs endurance, dear brethren, as well as encouragement. He speaks just prior to that of the endurance and encouragement of the scriptures.

• They help us to endure and they encourage us, and God would help us to endure; He is the God of endurance and encouragement in our relations with one another, to the end that,
  • however much we test one another because of what we are by nature, we should never surrender the idea of unity, but that we should be like-minded towards one another, according to Christ Jesus.

I wish to refer now to the way Paul spent in view of the unity of the saints.

• I have spoken of Romans, but think of the Corinthians. You might have said, What a disappointing company!

• In Christ Jesus he had begotten them by the gospel, he had laboured amongst them eighteen months, yet they were wrong in every practical feature of the truth. What did he say?
  • “I shall most gladly spend and be utterly spent for your souls, if even in abundantly loving you I should be less loved”, 2 Corinthians 12: 15.

• That indicates what he was prepared to spend on the Corinthians. He was prepared to spend and be utterly spent for their souls.

• The very foundational feature of unity was lacking. at Corinth. They were not together in mind and judgment; there was no moral basis for unity. And he beseeches them by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that they should say the same thing and be perfectly united in the same mind and in the same opinion.
  • That word opinion carries the idea of judgment; not judicial judgment, but having the same moral judgment of matters.

• Most in Corinth were claiming the right to have their own judgment, their own ideas, as regards separation and every other moral issue. And the result was that every kind of evil was creeping in there.

• How can we meet a situation like that, where saints are divided in their moral outlook and judgment? By being prepared to spend. It is a question of how much we are prepared to spend on a company like that.

• The natural heart would say, Let them go, they are a disappointiment, I have spent so much already on them, I can do no more. That was not Paul’s outlook. Did he do it grudgingly? Not at all. Most gladly, he said, will I spend.

• Think of a man like that! He was prepared to go to any length that this feature of the pearl might be brought to pass at Corinth, that is, unity of mind and judgment. And his spending was not in vain.

• I would raise the question, dear brethren, how much are we prepared to spend in our own localities to bring about Corinthian unity?

• Can we say, and I would specially challenge myself, that we would most gladly spend and be utterly spent to secure features proper to the assembly of God in the place; to secure, in a practical way, the temple of God and the functioning of the body?

• Is it not worth spending in order to experience manifestations of the Spirit, and to have persons coming in and saying, God is among you of a truth? Is it not worth spending something for this? It is worth spending everything – and spending gladly!

Well Paul spends, and he brings about unity according to second Corinthians.

• You say, Now the spending is finished. Not at all! The Colossian saints were in the gain of Corinthians, that ground did not need to be covered; but that is not the whole truth of the oneness of the pearl.

• More is needed than unity of mind and judgment. Paul is still spending. He says,
  • “Now I rejoice in sufferings for you and I fill up that which is behind of the tribulations of Christ in my flesh, for his body, which is the assembly”, Colossians 1: 24.

  • And he says “I would have you know what combat”, that means agonising in prayer, “I have for you, and those in Laodicea, and as many as have not seen my face in the flesh”, chapter 2: 1.

• Does not this give us scope for spending on a wide scale? We hear of difficulties in other parts, we hear of companies where there is no unity. Are we going to spend on them?

• These companies at Colosse and Laodicea Paul had never seen, but he was spending on them. He was thankful that Epaphras had helped them as to Corinthian truth, but he knew that was not all. There was more to be done and he had great combat, he was still spending.

• If you feel that your local meeting is well established on Corinthian ground, do not think your spending is finished. What about getting on to Colossian ground? A lot of spending is needed to get unity according to Colossians. You say, What kind of unity is that?
  • “That their hearts may be encouraged”, he says “being united together in love”.

• Unity of heart is something more than unity of mind and judgment, which is basic. There would be no unity at all without that, but having unity of mind and judgment, what about unity of heart?

• To bring that about Paul had great combat for them and those in Laodicea and for as many as had not seen his face in the flesh.

• The gain of headship depends on unity of heart. It is in an atmosphere of mutual love that the presence of Christ and His impulses as Head are known.
  • “The riches of the glory of this mystery among the nations, which is Christ in [or among] you”.

• Where does Christ come? To those who love Him.
  • “He that has my commandments and keeps them” He says, “he it is that loves me … and I will love him and will manifest myself to him”.

  • “If any one love me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our abode with him”.

• What are His commandments? They would involve the whole of Corinthians; but what is specially in mind?
  • “Love one another as I have loved you”.

• It is where love is that we know the divine dwelling. It is those who dwell in love who dwell in God, and God in them. It is love that secures the conscious presence of Christ, our glorious Head amongst us, with all that that means, and all that flows out of it.
  • “Unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the full knowledge of the mystery of God; in which are hid all the treasures of wisdom and of knowledge”.

• You may say to me, We feel we come short in knowledge in our locality; we do not know much, we think we had better get some gifted brothers along, we think we had better study more. All that may, and does, have its place, but you will not get the real treasures with that alone.

• The real treasures come where there is a united heart. It is love alone that gives us capacity to understand what love has devised and conceived. And it is only in conditions of love amongst the saints that we shall experience what the mystery means.

• The mystery is love’s great secret. It is only known to love, and the treasures of wisdom and knowledge flow where love is. And so Paul was spending; he had great combat for them.

Well you say, it is good to be on Colossian ground. How wealthy the saints are when they are on that ground. Surely that must be the final. Not at all! We have not arrived at the full thought of the pearl yet.

• Think of how much Paul spent at Ephesus. The full thought of the pearl is what the church is to Christ and to God.

• In Colossians we are thinking of what Christ is to us. How blessed to have Him amongst us, and what wealth we receive!

• But what about His portion, and God’s portion, in and from the assembly? That is the great objective.

• And so Paul goes on to spend at Ephesus, three years night and day, with tears, exhorting them publicly and in every house. What a labour!

• And on top of night and day work in the ministry of the word, labouring with his hands to provide for his own needs and those with him. Think of what Paul was prepared to spend for three years at Ephesus.
  • “I have coveted” he says “the silver or gold or clothes of no one”, Acts 20: 33.

• He wanted nothing from them. A true minister of Christ wants nothing from the saints. What he is aiming at is something for Christ and for God.

• He wants something for the saints, that is the Colossian side; he wants them to be rich, but it is all in view of something for Christ and for God, and that is Ephesians. And so Paul labours.

I read in Philippians, because it is a kind of crowning epistle on the practical line, and what he says there is

• “But if also I am poured out as a libation on the sacrifice and ministration of your faith, I rejoice, and rejoice in common with you all”, chapter 2: 17.

• I want you to notice in these passages the way all is done joyfully. It is not done grudgingly. “Most gladly” he would spend and be spent for the Corinthians, he rejoiced in suffering for the Colossians, and now he says, as to the Philippians,
  • “I rejoice and, rejoice in common with you all”.

• He did not want them to mourn over his desire to be poured out as a libation on the sacrifice and ministration of their faith, but to rejoice. Then he indicates that, in Timothy, he has another like himself.
  • “I have no one like-minded who will care with genuine feeling how ye get on”.

• Timothy was like-minded with Paul, prepared to spend, prepared to be poured out as a libation. And all this is in view of what is the top-note of christian testimony.

• Ephesians is the top-note of christianity in the full sense, that is towards Christ and towards God. And the heavenly principalities take account of it.

• But Philippians is the top-note testimonially amongst men, and the top-note testimonially is unity of soul, a most remarkable expression. He says, chapter 1: 27,
  • “that ye stand firm in one spirit, with one soul, labouring together in the same conflict for faith of the glad tidings”.

  • And in chapter 2: 2, “fulfil my joy, that ye may think the same thing, having the same love, joined in soul, thinking one thing”.

• What a marvellous conception this is! To think of a company here in this world, joined in soul. It supposes
  • unity of mind and judgment according to Corinthians;

  • unity of heart according to Colossians;

  • oneness of response to Christ and to God in Ephesians;

• joined in soul now in all their movements here.

• What is in view is a company united in the same longings and aspirations; not some of them minding earthly things, while others are pressing towards the goal, but all doing the same thing, thinking the same thing, and joined in soul in what they were pursuing.

• On the one hand, pursuing with all their might, like Paul, the calling on high of God in Christ Jesus; on the other hand, prepared to go down and be nothing here, according to the mind which is in Christ Jesus.

• And as to the gospel, moved with one soul towards men, shining as lights in the world, holding forth the word of life.

• You can understand that, in order to bring this top-note of testimony about, Paul could say that if he is poured out as a libation on the sacrifice and ministration of their faith, he would rejoice. For such results as this he would gladly be poured out.

When we come to 2 Timothy we find that he had his desire:

• “I am already being poured out” he says, “the time of my release has come”, 2 Timothy 4: 6.

• I am not wanting, in any way, to minimise our unspeakable and outstanding debt to Christ; what He has spent surpasses all else infinitely. But I would, from the standpoint of this word of exhortation, again remind you how much we owe to Paul.

• If he had not been prepared to spend and be utterly spent, and if he had not been prepared to be poured out as a libation, we should not be here today. How much we owe to him, and how much we owe to others who have followed him in the course of the testimony!

• And now the call comes down to us. What are we prepared to spend? From this standpoint the prosperity of the testimony depends on how much you and I are prepared to spend.

• And I may say this, and little indeed has one answered to it, that it really involves complete surrender. “All whatever he has”, nothing is held back. May the Lord help us for His Name’s sake!