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Bernt Lindberg
To: Bernt Lindberg
berntlindbergATswipnet.se
Storvreta near Uppsala, Sweden
Wed, 13 Sep 2000
Dear Bernt,
Please pardon the delay in replying. My computer crashed shortly after
your email arrived, and I am only now able to respond and to resume
work on MB.
You wrote, "I have received a copy of a message originating from
www.pbgroup.net criticizing your website for mentioning CAC whose
ministry the author considers misleading and blasphemous. I therefore
wonder what information about CAC you have distributed".
… Thanks for visiting MB and for your candid inquiry. I hope you will
visit again.
Yours in our Lord Jesus, Gordon.
To: Bernt Lindberg
Mon, 30 Oct 2000
Dear Bernt,
I hope you received my reply to your inquiry regarding the ministry of CAC.
- Did my reply cause concern that would hinder a response from you?
Yours in the Lord Jesus, Gordon.
From: Bernt Lindberg
Mon, 30 Oct 2000
Dear Gordon,
Thank you very much for e-mail today. I have received your reply, but have
not yet answered …
I have no concerns that would hinder response. But I am not currently
attending any Re-United Brethren assembly and have not previously attended
one
- for the simple reason that there has never existed any ReUnited
Brethren assemblies in Scandinavia but only so-called "Raven Brethren".
- However, once upon a time a "Raven assembly" in the archipelago of
Gothenburg was withdrawn from by the Brethren in the city because of an
inheritance dispute, in which Brethren sided with the different parties.
- After that the assembly on the island had some contact with the so-called Glanton Brethren and the Kasai mission in Congo.
- At present a Reunited Brethren publisher from East Germany associated with Christliche Literatur-verbreitung (CSV) is doing literature work in Sweden independently of any Swedish Brethren assembly.
With greetings, Yours in Christ, Bernt.
To: Bernt Lindberg
Wed, 01 Nov 2000
Dear Bernt,
Thanks for your prompt reply and the information as to the situation in
Sweden.
- However, I'm not clear as to your own position. Perhaps you
would be free to share some details. Are you connected with any brethren
in Sweden?
- How did Martin Arhelger know of you?
My own contacts with Martin Arhelger have been somewhat confusing and, because of his contacting you, I share my experience with you.
Our contacts began, I thought, on a brotherly basis with his
interest in my biography of CAC.
- He supplied me with a number of personal references from CAC's ministry which I was glad to have, and I added them to the biography noting my thanks to him in "Site News".
- He later wrote "I think it would have been just if you had mentioned
also in your web site that there are several hints that CAC abandoned
the denial of the eternal Sonship of Christ (before He became flesh)
shortly before his death".
- In Sonship of Christ 3, I replied to, and complied with, his later request that his name not appear on MB.
- Now however, as he has attacked CAC and others whose ministry is on MB, in a public forum, I am no longer disposed to grant him anonymity. My Stand 3: Opposers of MB
- Then, after the attack, he requested zip files of FER's ministry I was
offering.
- It is indeed a curious course of events. I do hope he desists from
his activities.
From my own long acquaintance with CAC's ministry, I believe you will only find what is edifying and according to the truth of the Scriptures in it, and other ministries on MB.
- If you have not already noticed, you should see the recent Guest Book and Mailbox entries from Judy Goodzeit for an altogether different, and I believe unbiased, appraisal of CAC than MA and others are intent on
spreading.
I'll be glad to hear from you as to my queries above when you have time. Of course, I'll also be interested if you hear from MA again.
Thanks again for replying. Yours in our Lord Jesus, Gordon.
From: Bernt Lindberg
Fri, 03 Nov 2000
Dear Brother in the Lord,
Thank you very much for your e-mail of Nov. 1st.
To your questions about my position, my connection with any Brethren in Sweden and how Martin Arhelger knows about me, it is difficult to provide a short answer suitable for an email message.
- An exhaustive adequate answer would probably require sending you a 300-page manuscript for a contribution to the history of the Brethren movement in Sweden and Scandinavia that I have written.
- But I have not yet found any publisher ready to accept this treatise for publishing as a book.
- My treatise is divided in 3 main parts. The first part is in Swedish and part two and three in as yet uncorrected English written with in Swedish syntax and containing grammatical errors.
- But in order to give you some idea of the contents I attach lists of contents and my forewords.
My position and connections with Brethren in Sweden
My paternal and maternal grandparents were pioneers in estblishing the Brethren movement in Sweden at the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century.
- I was brought up in an exclusive Brethren assembly in fellowship with the branch No 4 of the Brethren.
- No. 4 emanates from the numbering in the American census in 1936 that distinguished 8 main groups of the so-called Plymouth Brethren, numbered I - VIII.
- No. 4 identified the so-called Raven Taylor Brethren. This branch of Brethren is the only one at present existing in Sweden.
- Their meetings and worship are conducted in the English "heavenly" language. Officially they call them-selves "Plymouth Brethren No 4 in Sweden" with head office in London, to which they refer all inquiries.
- My parents were in fellowship with the No 4 Brethren until their deaths. My father died as a widower in 1968 and remained until his death a fanatical "Jsenior-junior Taylorist".
PB No 4 is, through books and media in the current public sect debate, known to the Swedish public as "The sect of sects".
- In popular books of the renowned Oxford sociologist of religious sects, Brian Wilson, translated and published in Swedish, No 4 is classified as an extremely introvert and exclusive sect.
- Are Wilson's books known in America?
The so-called Open Brethren never gained any essential foothold in Sweden, but in Denmark and Norway OB are relatively strong.
- Although numerically a very small minority on the evangelical map, they have had a relatively strong theological influence in the Norwegian evangelical community.
I am now 70, was born again at 12 and received to "the Lords table" at 17 by the assembly in which I grew up.
- In 1960 I was excommunicated because I did not observe the then new Taylorist decree that prohibited those in fellowship to eat at the same table as a person not in fellowship
- or to reside in the same building as people not in fellowship and breaking bread with PB No 4. This was applied even within families.
- Several others than me in the PB No 4 meetings in Sweden were at this time excommunicated and ostracised.
- The excommunicated brothers and sisters continued gathering to meetings in homes for some time and in a few places, where the whole assembly was excom-municated, in the original meeting rooms or halls.
- Most of the ostracised Swedish Brethren were elderly and have died a natural death. The last meeting of theirs ceased in the early 1990's, and now only a few elderly isolated individuals remain.
After the so-called debacle in Edinburgh with drunk JTJr in the early 1970's the so-called Renton Brethren were established. In Sweden there still exists a Renton meeting in the Gothenburg area.
- But in this meeting no one of those who were excommunicated in 1960 is allowed to participate in the breaking of bread in their assembly, which consists essentially of one family with in-laws.
Some of the still remaining ostracised and isolated brethren go to the Church of Sweden or to other evangelical denominations and so do we.
- Any Brethren gathering in Sweden that we can meet with no longer exists.
IT and Books
I possess biographies of several of the important ministering brethren in the Brethren movement. But I have never seen one of JBS, FER, JT or CAC.
- I have only seen some fragmentary biographical notes on the life of these brothers in histories of the Brethren, that I posess.
- I understand from your emails that you are writing a biography of CAC. I hope that you will publish it as a book that I can read in my armchair.
- IT is a wonderful tool for storing an almost unlimited amount of data and information and for transmitting data and information with the speed of light.
- However, this technique cannot replace published books that you can have at hand in your bookshelf and put into the hands of your contacts or enquirers.
Finally, may I ask for some information about your position and connection with Brethren?
With warm greetings in Christ, Bernt.
To: Bernt Lindberg
Dear Bernt,
Please pardon the delay in replying to your welcome email and attachment of November 4.
- It is of particular interest because there is very little information available either as to the history of the work in Scandinavia or the current situation there. All that I have in my papers are:
- a 1961 letter of withdrawal of Oivind N. Evenson, Moss, Norway
- "Letters of Interest" June 1936 from J. H. Lewis which includes
several letters from Norway and Sweden. One of them mentions a Mrs.
Hedman being 87 years old, perhaps the author of hymns and daughter of
Dr. Edward Cronin
- a 1945 letter of Miss Astrid Petersen, Oslo, Norway, re the Nazi
occupation.
From the list of contents, your history looks very interesting. It
is sad indeed that you cannot find a publisher.
- I am wondering whether some extracts from Part 2 would be suitable for posting in the 'History' group of 'My Brethren'.
- If you would like me to do this, let me know, and send a sample of what you think might be suitable. I could help with the English, although yours is quite good.
- Of course, I would not post it without further contact and mutual agreement.
Your personal history is also of considerable interest. And I note
we are of the same generation, today being my 71st birthday.
- We also have a similar background among brethren. My wife and I left the JTJr system in early 1971.
- After years of wandering we began to break bread alone in our home. A few others have since been added.To save me some writing please check
Personal: My Journey and My Stand: 1, 2 and 3.
- We are glad to be able to keep in contact via MB with a number of similar background, though small differences (in my judgment) keep us apart.
Yes, I have had Bryan Wilson's "Patterns of Sectarianism" for 30 years or so.
- You might be interested in an ongoing discussion of BW's activities in support of the Hales party. There are several relevant pages on Dick Wyman's Exclusive Brethren Information site. See MB's Site News: Links.
The internet is a useful tool in making the truth more widely
known and in making new and renewing old contacts.
- But I agree that it "cannot replace published books that you can have at hand in your bookshelf and put into the hands of your contacts or enquirers".
As to biographies, all that I have is available in the Biography, group.
- The use of "biography" is only for convenience as they are only
biographical sketches at the most. There is not very much on CAC, but those of JBS, FER and JT are more extensive.
- I hope you will look at them. Of course, they can be downloaded and/or printed for ease of reading. Let me know how you get on with them.
Yes, I have had Bryan Wilson's "Patterns of Sectarianism" for 30 years or so.
- You might be interested in an ongoing discussion of BW's activities in support of the Hales party.
- There are several relevant pages on Dick Wyman's Exclusive Brethren Information site. See MB's "Links".
There are usually new items added to MB each month and I'm sure you
will find much of the correspondence in the 'Mailbox' of interest. See Site News: New Activity.
- I hope you will visit MB from time to time and, of course, I will be glad to hear further from you.
Yours in our Lord Jesus, Gordon.
From: Bernt Lindberg
Tue, 14 Nov 2000
Dear Brother Gordon,
Thank you very much for your email, which I shall now try to answer in some detail.
1. I should very much like to read the letters of Öyvind Evensen and Astrid Petersen. Could you perhaps fax copies of them to me?
- I have a collection of very old letters of interest. Could you send me a list of places, dates and writers of such letters that deal with Norway and Sweden, so that I can check whether I have got them or seen them?
- Mrs. Hedman was the daughter of Dr. Cronin. As a widow she was "a
mother in Israel" and contributed most to the establishment of the Brethren
movement in Sweden after the early death of her husband, who simultaneously
with William Reid introduced the Brethren movement in Sweden,
- which developed into what I in my history designate "the Hedman-tradition" (Part I of my contribution to the history of Brethren in Sweden).
2. Before considering picking out samples for the history group of MB, I
think that it would be best for you to read my manuscripts for Part II and
III,
- in order that you can let me know whether you think that this material contains anything that would be useful to make available to "everybody worldwide" that visits your web site, regardless of for what purpose.
- I could perhaps transmit to you my electronic files as an e-mail attachment or on 3.5 " diskettes.
- If I cannot find a publisher I may perhaps publish my – from the worldwide point of view – rather narrow contribution to the history of the Brethren movement electronically on a CD, issued by myself with my own copyright – provided that this work should be published at all.
- Until I come to a decision how to publish, I want to be sure that you keep the material, that I now suggest sending you, strictly only for your own personal reading.
- It must not be made available to any web site or reproduced for third persons without my permission.
- My suggestion to send the whole manuscript (a couple of hundred pages)
assumes that you would like to recieve it and can find time to read it.
- If so, please let me know and tell me what you think the best mode of
transmitting, and to which address, electronic or snail-mail.
3. There is much connected with my personal history in Part I, but this
part is written in Swedish. For English speaking readers of Part II and
III, parts of Part I may perhaps have to be translated into English.
3. As far as we can see from our isolated "vantage point" in Sweden, the
so-called "new movement" in the Netherlands contributes to perpetuating old
disruptions among the so-called "Elberfeld-Brethren" (in Great Britain
designated ReUnited Brethren or Kelly-Lowe-Glanton-Brethren) between the
so-called "Alte Brüder" (Old Brethren) and "Freie Brüder" (Free Brethren).
- What I call repercussions has come to pass through close social
contacts over the border at conferences where the participants understand
one anothers languages, and through family contacts (Dutch/German
intermarriage).
- The disruptions also have their roots in different opinions among the so-called Elberfeld-Brethren about how to apply what Scripture teaches about "the powers that be" to the Nazi-government.
- This problem has been thoroughly treated in a large 3 volume-work "Die Brüderbewegung in Deutschland" by Gerhard Jordy, Brockhaus-Verlag, Wuppertal 1979, 1981 and 1986. Is this work known among Brethren in America?
Mr. M. Arhelger writes in his last e-mail, that he belongs to the faction that is called "Alte Brüder".
- I have written a letter in German to MA with counter-arguments to his attacks on CAC.
- If you like to take part of these arguments, I could perhaps send you a copy of this letter on a confidential basis, if you let me know if you can read German.
My policy is not to make material about the Brethren that can be used
by their enemies or persons like Arhelger to discredit individual brothers
or exclusive groups in the Brethren movement, easily available to
"everybody".
- My principle is that material pertaining to the perishing of the Brethren movement in Sweden/Scandinavia, that I describe in my contribution to the history of the Brethren movement (which I personally lament), should [not] be told in "the market place of Gath" (2 Sam. 1: 20).
- The history of the Brethren movement in Sweden is the history of the rise and fall of a movement that came from Great Britain from reformed theological heritage to Sweden with a rather unified lutheran and partly pietistic theological heritage.
4. I have now looked at the Biography group. It must have been an enormous work to gather and systematize all the information that it contains.
- I think that historians should be very thankful that you have devoted yourself to this work, that hopefully will be to the honour of the Lord. I thank you very much indeed for making me aware of it.
5. Finally as to Bryan Wilson: Wilsons classification of the results of his scientific research on sects has been very useful to me in studying and describing the perishing of the Brethren movement in Sweden.
- In 1985 Christer Nilsson published a series of articles about the Plymouth Brethren with contents to be published in a coming book "Sekternas Sekt – De exklusiva Plymouthbröderna" (The Sect of Sects – The Exclusive Plymouthbrethren), in an inflential South Swedish daily newspaper. Wilson objected on the debate page in this daily to Nilsson's description of PB No 4. The book came out in 1986.
- Wilson defended the human rights (laid down after the second World War in the European convention of Human Rights of the Council of Europe, ratified by the Swedish state) of members of PB No 4 and the rights of PB No 4 to exist unmolested in Sweden.
- Wilson seemed personally to sympathize with the life-style of individuals belonging to PB 4, whom he had interviewed in his
scientific sociological research.
- This may have spurred his personal interest to defend the human rights of that particular sect. But I consider this quite another matter than his useful scientific research on the sociology of religion.
As to Bruce Hales, believers that we meet know nothing whatsoever about
him. To them this name only means a foreign "non-person".
At present I am considering the Brethren concept of separation, which means separation from evil and the world
- as well as the sociological concept of separatism, which means separation and isolation from "other believers" in the Ecclesia, which is the Body of Christ "on earth" and a witness of the existence of the Ecclesia in "the world".
Yours sincerely in our Lord Jesus, Bernt.
To: Bernt Lindberg
Wed, 15 Nov 2000
Dear Bernt,
Thanks for your prompt reply. I will respond as soon as possible, perhaps in a few days. In the meantime I am attaching all the Scandinavian documents that I have.
By the way, do you read Russian. I have a Russian correspondent whose
English is sometimes hard to understand but he also sends a Russian text.
- If you or anyone you know can help me with this it would be
appreciated.
Yours in our Lord Jesus, Gordon.
To: Bernt Lindberg
Wed, 22 Nov 2000
Dear Bernt,
Thank you for your email of Tue., 14 Nov. 2000.
Yes, I would be very interested in seeing the manuscripts for your book and, certainly, I would not publish any of them or share them without your prior agreement.
- If you could send by email, it would be preferable. However the
largest attachment I have successfully received previously was a zip file of 372kb. If you could divide your manuscripts into several parts, perhaps
not more than 350kb all should be well. If you can make zip files, more,
of course, could be included in an attachment. I suggest you try sending
an initial part and we'll see how it works.
Yes, it would be good to have your personal history in Part 1 in
English.
As to the historical information I put on MB, my desire is to give as accurate a history as possible to offset the biased reports that abound.
- I'm not interested particularly in airing the failures of brethren but many times this can't be avoided as they are an integral part of the history.
- The opposers, such as MA, probably have most of the information they need to continue their attacks in any case.
- Your reference to the decline – "perishing" ? – of the brethren in Sweden is not my main interest for MB. No doubt it was of the same character as elsewhere.
- What interests me is the introduction and course of the work in Sweden up to 1959 or so. Others too will be interested in this as little is known.
All the information regarding Martin Arhelger, which makes the
situation much clearer, is appreciated. He didn't want his name on MB,
but his attacks have made it impossible to avoid referring to him.
Your conclusions as to the "concept of separation, which means
separation from evil and the world as well as the sociological concept
of separatism" will be of interest to me.
With love in our Lord Jesus, Gordon.
To: Bernt Lindberg
Tue, 06 Mar 2001
Dear Bernt,
I regret the delay in replying to yours of Wed, 21 Feb 2001. Thank you
very much for the additions to your history. I also regret that I have not yet been able to reply to the attachment on yours of Wed, 31 Jan 2001. I will endeavour to do so when time permits.
As to your English, it is quite good but I understand your feelings. I
would gladly help revise it but am overwhelmed with work and correspondence on MB.
- I wonder whether some guest o MB might undertake to help in this, for your final approval of course.
- If you want I could place a bulletin asking for such help or ask one or two who might be able. Let me know.
Unfortunately I have no knowledge of "Sister Lou Norman" who wrote to
you re the origin of the pre-trib rapture.
- Another MB guest, Robert Fear of Scotland, has also had a message from her. She may have got your names from MB, but I have not received a message from her. If you let me have her email address I will make some enquiry.
Re your "pbladdition.doc":
You ask regarding your section 'Eternal Life', "Is this a correct assessment of what has happened in the teaching of Brethren?"
- No, I do not believe is is a correct assessment.
'Sonship of Christ', you conclude, "This is how I personally and many
other Brethren that I know understand Scripture. JT and others understood the Sonship of Christ otherwise".
- There are several points which I believe cannot be sustained from
Scripture. I cannot go into them now, but point out that
- according to Athanasius, with whom you appear to agree, I and others who reject 'eternal' Sonship are not saved. Do you really believe this?
You say, "I should like to see an entry for a thinkable dictionary
of 'Brethren doctrine and teaching' not longer than the above abstract, but
preferably shorter, about the teaching of FER on eternal life, and about
the teaching of JT on the Sonship of Christ" and
- "I should be glad if you from your historical and biographical studies on the teaching of Brethren could provide such 'entries' ".
- I would be glad to oblige but as mentioned earlier am overwhelmed with work just now. To provide something as short as you desire would of course be more time consuming than a longer entry.
- Perhaps you could check MB and let me know any particular passages that might meet your criteria. I may be able to help later.
You add, "I have noticed that there is one in my opinion good, probably
'pre-Raven', entry on Life Eternal in the New and Concise Bible Dictionary by the Brethren publisher G. Morrish (1819-1912)".
- According to internal evidence, page 805, 11 lines from bottom, the
dictionary was published in 1899, definitely not "pre-Raven". It is my
understanding that Morrish was in practical fellowship with FER.
- The brief article on "Life, Eternal", on page 490 to which you refer,
- is a concise but very guarded statement and if read carefully will beseen to be in accord with the teaching of FER and others.
- It clearly refutes the common idea that eternal life is a mere possession.
I was surprised to see your article and offer of your CD-ROM on Dick
Wyman's site.
Affectionately in our Lord Jesus, Gordon.
Your guest entries and messages will show that
the continuation of My Brethren is important to you.
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