My Stand: No. 4

It has been over two years, by God’s sovereign grace alone, since I took up considerably serious study of the Scriptures and sought to have what I was studying in practical ways.

• But it would not be honest to say that study alone brought me to this, it is I think, more having to do with occupation with the Man in glory – when He is our pursuit, the changes may be astonishing.

• So it is truly my desire that through this any who would receive it would profit by what God has wrought, not that I am anything, nor do I think I have ‘arrived’,
  • but that the testimony which is gaining dominance over my soul, the testimony that “God has made this Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ” –

  • well, this I consider to be everything that the Christian should be about, Christ pre-eminent in the heart.

• The more the testimony is understood by the Spirit, the more practical it becomes, the more “the surpassing greatness of his power toward us who believe” which has been so mercifully bestowed in grace is fully possessed “according to the might of His strength”, Ephesians 1: 19.

So I would request that each one keep in mind Who it is with whom we have to do. I ask all of you to go before the Lord with what I will say here; I ask that you all would be patient in meditation on them.

• The last thing I want is for any of you to be unduly burdened and yet I desire that we
  • “all arrive at the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the son of God, at the full grown man, at the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ”, Ephesians 4: 13.

• And sometimes the path to this fulness is with much difficulty, but I think all can agree it would be worth the result.

The first reason this must be now delivered to you all is that, if the Lord has not yet come, you may be wondering why I have said or done certain things.

• I want to avoid as much confusion about it as I can, instead of anyone hearing different things from different places; I want particularly to avoid doing things ‘in a corner’.

• Previously, I did not consider it necessary to make my position widely known because it was not the time to speak, but to have it made plain in practical ways whether or not it was of the Lord.

• Some of you know that I have personally experienced what it means to be the disobedient leper who speaks of his healing before the time.

• But it needs to be addressed some time beforehand in order that everyone has time to absorb the thing, and that requires that I divulge my heart to you now.

The second reason is that I can no longer participate in the Christmas holiday, among other things, when they are taken up.

• I hope with the Lord’s guidance to bring forward what is on my heart and I thought everyone of you deserved an explanation, and deserved it well in advance and all at once.

• I wanted all of you to know that I love you very much and that you are very important to me and that it is the desire to walk with you that has brought this letter about. If it were otherwise, I would have felt there was nothing to say.

I have had a small problem with Christmas for many years because of the gross materialism connected with it – a common enough complaint, I think –

• but the root of the discomfort became more obvious with the knowledge of the pagan origins of the thing and the taking up of those things on supposed Christian ground.

• While it could, and ought to be opposed on that basis alone, it seems to me that to address it in that way would appear to you more fanatical or legal than having an outline of sound words formed by grace.

• Therefore, I would like to present my opposition based upon principles and not disputes over the details.
  • “Of these things put in remembrance, testifying earnestly before the Lord not to have disputes of words, profitable for nothing, to the subversion of the hearers”; 2 Timothy 2: 14.

But for information only, in case anyone is unaware, I will provide these few details:

Christmas was brought into widespread practice by the Roman Catholic system in the 4th century in order to compete with the pagan celebration of the birth of Mithras, a pagan sun god. This holiday did not begin at Rome but was carried through from the Babylonian mystery religion, where into the Roman form were incorporated Babylonian symbols and practices which were then cloaked with a noticeably thin veil of Christian terminology. Further details can be discovered easily, I leave that to your own study, but I can assure you that most of the ‘Christian’ details have a corresponding pagan meaning and some of the details did not even get that far, retaining the pagan signifi-cance to this day.

The facts appear, to my mind, little more than a case of the deceived trying to deceive the deceived.

• But I want to get to the principle of the thing – no doubt this was set up to get the pagans into the churches, which everybody thought was a good idea
  • except for the simple truth that you cannot deceive a person into a body which is composed of the chosen people of God.

• It is presumption to think the power of God has devolved upon one in such a way, and it is sin to assume the work of the Spirit
  • – it will be seen further on in this letter why that is such an important thing connected to the decision to leave holidays behind –

• taking things into one’s own hands while at the same time giving others who are in faith, but who are weak in it, a false impression of the nature of God’s sovereign work.
  • This can only reap one the kind of discipline given to Moses, who himself gave a different impression to the Israelites than Jehovah wished him to give in striking the rock.

• The Spirit’s express instruction is to learn the lesson “not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other” – 1 Corinthians 4: 6 –
  • answering to the Corinthian persuasion to follow after sects, sexual immorality and lawlessness which was connected also with the casual man-agement of pagan idolatry in their associations.

Please do not think that I blame all of the ills of Christendom on Christmas – it would be a mistake because I do not.

• And as I said, it’s not detail that I am concerned with, but the principles given by God so “to keep oneself unspotted from the world”, James 1: 27.

• These principles were given in order that we keep the lines of separation clear, which must have sway over us by virtue of our baptism, and this is to say that
  • baptism disassociates you from all that is around in the world, it creates a distinction between yourself and the world’s ways and, with that accepted, it must be maintained in the power of the Spirit.

• I think that as baptism is kept in personal exercise it will become integral to understanding the way “also I may get possession of it, seeing that also I have been taken possession of by Christ Jesus”, Philippians 3: 12.

Therefore, Christmas is symptomatic of larger problems before us as Christians in this day and it would be

• a great mistake to ignore things spiritual for the love of earthly tradition begun by a system that has been apostate from that day to this.

• Celebration of any holiday – I do not mean taking the day off but taking on the day as though connected to it – tends toward ‘fuzzy’ distinctions between the world and us;

• and serves to reinforce the idea that somehow we need to have affection for this place or maintain it in some way.

• The more indistinct the lines – and at the last, non-existent – the more conflict we experience in being for the Lord while living in world.

‘Well, can’t we celebrate it without the paganism?’ and ‘Doesn’t Christian liberty enter into the equation?’ were things I asked myself for a long time.

• But I have come to it this way, first, leaving out the Christmas symbols and the materialism would necessitate not celebrating Christmas –

• and I hope I’m clear enough here – to have a family gathering on the day, as it is a free day, is not what is opposed; in fact, I have come to think
  • it would be very beautiful to be consciously apart from what was going on, like Noah and his family gathered up into the ark together safe from the perishing world around them;

• nor do I suggest making little children suffer torment from others, growing up thinking that living in a Christian household is somehow a disadvantage –

• there are alternatives without having to defend against being a ‘Jehovah’s Witness’ and without compromising or trying re-christianize it.

Second, to say that Paul proposed liberty toward practice of pagan ritual under the pretense of doing honor to the Lord Jesus is nonsense.

• To suggest it is to slight not only the devotion of Paul but to be contrary to the entire point of baptism in Christ Jesus – the blessing and the responsibility of becoming a stranger in this world who walks by faith.

I can only say one thing more, that there is not a whisper of a suggestion in the Scripture for us to commemorate His birth and it is simply not possible for us to proceed beyond that without causing division.

• The only conclusion to be reached is that Christmas and all religious and national holidays have always been enmeshed with the way the world does things.

• For the Christian it becomes a public cultivation of things in the place where our Lord has been rejected – a public profession contrary to our new nature.

• This perhaps is the most difficult aspect to perceive, and yet it is one of the most comprehensive.

• The best way to say it then is that the Christian cannot seek to maintain something of this world for himself because he is not from here – he is of a different order.
  • “Herein has love been perfected with us that we may have boldness in the day of judgment, that even as he is, we also are in this world”, 1 John 4: 17;

• and this world is a wilderness for those who believe on Jesus Christ, who was a stranger here,
  • and to practically maintain it is otherwise is to create overwhelming spiritual problems.

• To reject the heavenly position develops resistance to the Spirit, it forces the Christian to live out a false reality, which end result is public dishonor to the Lord.

The holidays are not for us to celebrate but are carried on by those having no hope and without God in the world, and even we were of that order, but are no longer. I encourage each one to search the Scripture on it.

No doubt, the giving up of mere forms does not automatic-ally secure blessing, in fact, without the Lord in your view it would be a sad thing having nothing with which to replace them.

• C. A. Coates once wrote in a letter, “The great point of the Nazarite … is that he was a man commanded by the Lord. The key to the chapter [Numbers 6] lies in the words – ‘unto the Lord’. It was not ideas with the Nazarite, but a Person. I remember hearing of a young man who complained, after apparently breaking with a great many things, that he had given up everything for an idea. The truth was he had never come under the attraction of a Person in glory; he was imitating others, and being influenced by others rather than by Christ. And, of course, instead of finding satisfaction he met with nothing but disappointment. It was an attempt to get the Nazarite's compensation by imitating the Nazarite's behaviour, instead of coming under the influence of the Nazarite's Object”.

• Now I don’t recommend the giving up of things without coming under the influence of the Lord.

• Let us come under His influence and be for His pleasure and not our own – and it will be quickly apparent to all that we have been given the strength to walk outside of these things as we should.

These are frightful times we’re in and I did not take this up to restate what is obvious to anyone with even a little spiritual intelligence, but there is a final reason this letter has been written.

• I think the practical problem is much more vast – even more than I expected would ever come into my intelligence.

• The reason why Christmas ever even occurred to me to reject begins with the peculiar way in which we view prophecy.

• The fact is that we have all looked at the world scene to get our line on prophetic interpretation for too long and totally ignored ourselves as Christians.

• In other words, church people are not in the habit of looking inside the churches when it comes to discerning the times in which we live – and who really wants to examine themselves, I understand it as I find it unpleasant myself.

• However, “when evening is come, ye say, Fine weather, for the sky is red; and in the morning, A storm to-day, for the sky is red and lowering; ye know how to discern the face of the sky, but ye cannot the signs of the times.” Matthew 16: 2-3.

This general blindness, of necessity, comes from a misunderstanding about the difference in Scripture between the ‘body’ and the ‘house’.

• Is it really that simple? Well, in the teaching that comes out of Christendom in general, the two terms means the same thing or if they don’t, they serve the same purpose theologically – but the truth is that in Scripture the terms overlap but they are not the same thing.

For example, in 2 Timothy 2: 19-22 we get:

Yet the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, The Lord knows those that are his; and, Let every one who names the name of the Lord withdraw from iniquity. But in a great house there are not only gold and silver vessels, but also wooden and earthen; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. If therefore one shall have purified himself from these, he shall be a vessel to honour, sanctified, serviceable to the Master, prepared for every good work. But youthful lusts flee, and pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace, with those that call upon the Lord out of a pure heart.

This, in part, is describing the difference between two kinds of vessels in the same house. They manifest themselves to honor or to dishonor.

• It describes those who will become or will not become sanctified and fit for the Master’s use; those who call upon the Lord out of a pure heart and how they can continue, with power, in the testimony.

But what is this ‘great house’? It appears to me that this house is filled with those who make a profession

• – that is what a vessel does in the Scripture, it testifies to something –

• some profess and are true and some profess and are false, but all who are in the house are there because of their profession.

• It might be helpful to see this in connection with the ‘kingdom parables’ where the ‘great house’ corresponds with the thought of the ‘great tree’ in our Lord’s parable of the mustard seed,
  • He said, “To what is the kingdom of God like? and to what shall I liken it? It is like a grain of mustard seed which a man took and cast into his garden; and it grew and became a great tree, and the birds of heaven lodged in its branches.” Luke 13: 18-19.

Now a mustard tree is not normally a great tree; it only grows to 8 feet or so. So what we have here is something that is abnormal,

• it is a great tree and it is pattern of public Christendom becoming a large organization, which accepts into itself all manner of evil.

• How do I know that? Because of the consistent interpretation of ‘birds’; in a previous parable the Lord tells us that birds snatch the ‘seed’ away from the ground sown ‘along the way’ – Matthew 13: 4 –

• and yet here they are; the very birds who snatch away the glad tidings, are resting in the branches of the great tree.

• The fact that the public testimony – not the Church, mind you – ends in failure will all be borne by a careful reading of the kingdom parables, the epistles, the Revelation letters
  • and the fact that anytime man is entrusted with something of God he wrecks it.

What we ought to be thinking now is that what we have in these last days in the churches, simply even in terms of organization, is not of God but of the adversary.

• The Scripture stands. All of the professing are in the house, but only the believing are of the body.

• This distinction alone should bring us into clearer thinking about what the body of Christ means practically in other scriptures with which we are already familiar.

• Yet in this age, the wheat and the tares are all mixed up together in the Christian religious systems we have around us. We are in a great deal of trouble over this very thing and the condition is very serious.

Now what I mean when I say the testimony is just what I said above, that “God has made this Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ”.

• It is entirely connected with this wonderful Person, our Lord.

• The testimony is what God is about to display, and that is Christ. If you have the Witness in yourself you know that nothing but faith can see that at this point in time.

• However, someday soon, every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess Jesus Christ as Lord – it will become public – His enemies will be made a footstool and He will rule in all His glory for all to see as plain as day.

• If any one of you comes to a more full understanding of this privilege we have, of knowing Him who is to take his place over all creation in advance of His taking it, I could not be more pleased.

• But the ramifications of that knowledge are far reaching as I testify to you.

Continuing with this line, the most obvious thing at all in scripture is the way the Lord in the gospels and the apostles in their letters describe and warn, not only of the condition of things in the world,

• but also the condition of the public testimony – general failure and apostasy, and this, on the apostles side, was to begin very soon after they departed to be with the Lord.

• The Lord’s address to the assembly in Laodicea, characteristic of the final assembly before the great tribulation, describes the end result well enough:

I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot; I would thou wert cold or hot. Thus because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I am about to spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and am grown rich, and have need of nothing, and knowest not that thou art the wretched and the miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked … Revelation 3: 15-20

I won’t recount church history, there’s no need to recall the murders and tortures, the inquisitions and crusades in the name of Christ, such things are unusually conspicuous.

• But there are other practices not so easy to spot, things we are used to doing not going to the Lord with them or giving them any thought at all.

• Most all of the teaching available supports these very systems and for this very reason they have become hard to perceive – they have become so normal –

• and all of us, myself no exception, have taken part in promoting the mind of man, promoting Laodicea – a Christ-less, unspiritual church.

Along these lines we have in part –again, please search the Scripture:

Sectarianism, denominationalism, party divisions; creating organizations around personal preference in doctrine, worship, and government (see 1 Corinthians 1: 10; 3: 1-4; 2 Corinthians 13: 11; Philippians 2: 3; 4: 2; 1 Peter 3: 8; Ephesians 4: 3; James 3: 13-18, and elsewhere) which is dishonoring to the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and outside the scope of His prayer in John 17. Clericalism, the reclassification of spiritual gift into that of office, secured by the decision of men, congregational or ‘elder’ election and typically based on the proper education (the criteria of ‘proper’ being subject to sectarian interpretation); thus, a denial of the practical power of the Spirit to provide useful gift among the saints and also the suppression of those truly gifted and assigned by God which results (see 1 Corinthians 7: 7; 9: 8; 12; 2 Corinthians 9: 8; Ephesians 4: 7-8; James 1: 16-18; 1 Pet. 4: 10, and elsewhere). It is also a denial of the practical headship of Christ Himself over the assembly (see Ephesians 1: 19-23; 4: 15-16; 5: 23; Colosians 1: 18; 2: 9-10, 19; 1 Peter 2: 7-10, and elsewhere). Systematic theologies, creeds, catechisms, hermeneutics and educational organizations established on worldly principles and sciences; apologetics and the mind of man assume the place of spiritual intelligence as taught of God through the Spirit and in assembly (see 1 Corinthians 1: 17-30; 2; 3: 19; Ephesians 4: 14; Colossians 2: 6-9, and elsewhere). This, combined with the acceptance of sectarianism and clericalism, has resulted in the formation of ‘specialized ministries’ modeled after worldly organizations: colleges and seminaries, radio and TV stations, music and bookstores and publishing houses which sell the ‘ministry’ of thousands upon thousands of so-called teachers for their own financial gain and the spiritual impoverishment of those who follow (see 2 Timothy 4: 3-4; 1 Peter 2: 3, and elsewhere).

These things cannot be made light of, yet some may say, ‘We admit the problems. But, there is nothing we can do, so we must continue on and do the best we can with the situation’.

• Partly, I would agree, there is nothing you can do to change it, it is too big of a job and the power is simply not there.

• For example, if the engine of your car seized, you wouldn’t try to drive it, and if you didn’t have the money to fix it, you would give the car up not sit in it waiting for the engine to turn over. It’s a poor illustration but it will serve.

• All of these things must be given up because we do not have the money to fix it, we are the poor of Laodicea and we are entreated of the Lord to come to Him that we might be recovered for His pleasure.

I wouldn’t let anyone say that there is no light to be had in some of the systems; if there was no light at all none of us would be saved; God in His mercy allows some little light to get through.

• Furthermore, I don’t say this is about inconsistent behavior, which would be the worst kind of hypocrisy.

• It is not inconsistency in the walk of the brethren that I address, but a corporate misapprehension of the nature of the Christ and His dealings within the church,
  • so that wherever these systems are maintained, the light is greatly hindered and must be greatly hindered because these things are sinful and ignorantly maintained.

• Before the Lord, it must be seen that all of this mischief is leading up to the time when the man of sin is to be revealed and take hold of the thing spued out of the mouth of the Lord.

• Because it is lukewarm, Laodicea is not fit as a vessel of testimony for the Lord and He gets rid of it, however, it is fit for the evil one to use and he, for a long time now, has been in the process of taking it up for himself.

We know of the times before the man of sin is revealed. We know that he will not come until there is first apostasy

• and also that he will take up the thing left after the rapture, which thing exists now and which all of us were, or are now, a part of.

• The Scripture does not have any other thought in it but failure of the testimony and it is all connected to the way men choose to operate things rather than the way God has wanted them to be.

• You only need to go as far as Genesis to know that we all follow the same old road if we step out of His instruction in order to secure something for ourselves. So the apostasy comes first before all.

Now we beg you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to him, that ye be not soon shaken in mind, nor troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter, as if it were by us, as that the day of the Lord is present. Let not any one deceive you in any manner, because it will not be unless the apostasy have first come, and the man of sin have been revealed, the son of perdition. 2 Thess. 2: 1-3

And that this is promoted by false teachers who were going to come in early; and there were going to be many of them and they would continue their work up to the end:

Take heed therefore to yourselves, and to all the flock, wherein the Holy Spirit has set you as overseers, to shepherd the assembly of God, which he has purchased with the blood of his own. For I know this, that there will come in amongst you after my departure grievous wolves, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves shall rise up men speaking perverted things to draw away the disciples after them. Acts 20: 28-30 But there were false prophets also among the people, as there shall be also among you false teachers, who shall bring in by the bye destructive heresies, and deny the master that bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction; and many shall follow their dissolute ways, through whom the way of the truth shall be blasphemed. And through covetousness, with well – turned words, will they make merchandise of you: for whom judgment of old is not idle, and their destruction slumbers not. 1 Peter 2: 1-3 Little children, it is the last hour, and, according as ye have heard that antichrist comes, even now there have come many antichrists, whence we know that it is the last hour. : John 2: 18 But wicked men and juggling impostors shall advance in evil, leading and being led astray. 2 Timothy 3: 13

Scripture has no other thought but that things will be in confusion, terrible denial of the Lord, and apostasy – and it began almost immediately after the apostles went to be with the Lord.

• The Scripture also has no other thought for us than to depart from them that we might be for His pleasure.

• Because if we are in the last days then the testimony in general would not be anything if not in ruin, and we must come out from all connected with it.

• There is simply no other way to look at it. It must be reckoned with and the systems of men must be rightly judged.

• We have all been deceived and the only way to get clear of these things is to leave the systems, the denominations, the offices, and come to the Lord.

Wherefore also Jesus, that he might sanctify the people by his own blood, suffered without the gate: therefore let us go forth to him without the camp, bearing his reproach: for we have not here an abiding city, but we seek the coming one. Hebrews 13: 12-14 If therefore one shall have purified himself from these, he shall be a vessel to honour, sanctified, serviceable to the Master, prepared for every good work. 2 Timothy 2: 21 Come out of her, my people, that ye have not fellowship in her sins, and that ye do not receive of her plagues: for her sins have been heaped on one another up to the heaven, and God has remembered her unrighteousnesses. Revelation 18: 4-5

It cannot be reformed; the churches and systems are to be used as the tool of Antichrist and simply must be given up, and this, I’m afraid, means reproach.

I am fully aware of the difficulties of presenting this, both yours and mine –

• my personal risk in taking this position is great, and I would not do so only for the sake of having a position, and personally, it is not my natural tendency to want people to dislike me.

• I have known some of you my entire life and I would not risk our good relations with each other over ‘an idea’.

• I know this may cause sorrow of different kinds in each one, but I hope that for some this will be an answer to questions that have been of trouble for a lifetime. I know it was so for me.

• But if sorrow leads us to repentance and a clearer view of the Lord Jesus and a more serious understanding of His things, then the sorrow will have been worthwhile.

I really hope everyone takes time with these things and please do not phone me to argue about it – I beg you all to wait and take it to the Lord.

• I’m more than willing to clarify anything I have said because I know I’ve said it poorly, but we cannot have angry, contentious discussions.

• So please, really meditate on it, really come to Him about it. But do not set it aside because the day is drawing to a close, and we do not want to be about some other business when He comes, even if He does not come in our lifetime.

Ezra, who lived in a broken day similar to our own, also knew the sorrow we need to become familiar with over the liberties taken in joining with the peoples of the nations and their things.

• From this we can learn, because Ezra judged himself in the thing and not just his brethren.

Now when these things were completed, the princes came to me, saying, The people of Israel, and the priests and the Levites, have not separated themselves from the peoples of the lands, according to their abominations, even of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Jebusites, the Ammonites, the Moabites, the Egyptians, and the Amorites; for they have taken of their daughters for themselves and for their sons, and have mingled the holy seed with the peoples of the lands; and the hand of the princes and rulers has been chief in this unfaithfulness. And when I heard this thing, I rent my mantle and my garment, and plucked off the hair of my head and of my beard, and sat down overwhelmed. Then were assembled to me every one that trembled at the words of the God of Israel, because of the unfaithfulness of those that had been carried away; and I sat overwhelmed until the evening oblation. And at the evening oblation I arose up from my humiliation; and with my mantle and my garment rent, I fell on my knees, and spread out my hands to Jehovah my God, and said: O my God, I am ashamed and blush to lift up my face to thee, my God; for our iniquities are increased over our head, and our trespass is grown up to the heavens. Since the days of our fathers, we have been in great trespass to this day; and for our iniquities we, our kings, our priests, have been given into the hand of the kings of the lands, to the sword, and to captivity, and to spoil, and to confusion of face, as it is this day. And now for a little space there hath been favour from Jehovah our God, to leave us a remnant to escape, and to give us a nail in his holy place, that our God may lighten our eyes, and give us a little reviving in our bondage. Ezra 9: 1-8

Now the ‘nail’ spoken of is Christ, He is the nail in a sure place – see Isaiah 22: 23 – and upon him hang all of the vessels, and all of the vessels are to be filled with the testimony – large or small – but all are to hang on Him separate from all the mischief we have been a part of.

• It must be dealt with this day, it must be brought before the Lord in humility this day.

• It presents to each one a different difficulty, for me they have been many and this letter is one, but there is such bright light outside all the confusion of the systems so that we would not deny the Lord in practice and dishonor Himself, His work, and His vessel.

But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel. Hebrews 12: 22-24.

So you see it is not only the holidays we must re-think, it is all that we are accustomed to and all that we may very well have a genuine affection for.

• But loved ones, our affections cannot be for religious forms or for systems of error or things established in the wisdom of men or for following with those who practice them, no matter how genuine the affection might be.

• Our affection must always and ever be for the Lord who has bought us and the One who has secured so great a salvation and we must go outside the camp and bear His reproach where those who call on the name of the Lord out of a pure heart are formed for His pleasure.

• I pray that we might be of the same judgment, in all humility, of what is not according to God’s mind, as revealed in the Scriptures to our hearts by the Holy Spirit, made final and approachable in the work of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God.

Ye therefore, beloved, knowing these things before, take care lest, being led away along with the error of the wicked, ye should fall from your own stedfastness: but grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen. 2 Peter 5: 17-18

Yours in our Lord Jesus, Love, Jeff.

I have quoted portions of your letter below so you don’t have to go back and forth reading the reply to your various statements.

QUOTATION from the response to Jeff's letter to his family: The first issue is that of observance of holidays. If the standard were that all things accepted by the believer should be of a regenerate source then the list of things “acceptable” would be extremely short. By this I mean that if I reject Christmas on the basis that it comes from pagan tradition then I must reject a whole host of other things that also come from godlessness. I would necessarily have to reject most hymns because they are often melodies taken from popular music and bar songs. And if in my righteous pursuit I were to eliminate things from my life that were directly descended from evil, my list would be even shorter. I couldn’t wear designer clothes because most designers are homosexuals. I couldn’t wear generic clothes because underpaid child workers mostly manufacture them. I would not drive a ____ because of the companies’ use of Jewish slave labor during the Nazi regime. In fact, I couldn’t use any car because most of the gasoline I buy is purchased from Muslims in the Middle East or Atheists in Russia …

Rejecting everything merely because you find it in this world is beyond what I was trying to express in the first letter, and rather extreme.

• While we may rightly say that “the whole world lies in the wicked one” we would also add that “we are not ignorant of his thoughts”.

• One of his thoughts of which we might be aware would be his delight in occupation with questions over do’s and don’ts and “disputes of words, profitable for nothing, to the subversion of the hearers” which are a sidetrack to principles of truth.

• Let me simply say that I am not suggesting monasticism nor would I advocate a system which serves the flesh by statute and ordinance rather than putting it down by the Spirit, according to Colossians 2: 20-23 and Romans 8: 13.

• We might ask whether a thing is of the god of this world or if it is simply earthly, and with that I add that it is wisdom to be conscious of the snare of the former and the potential snare of the latter.

• Yet another of Satan’s thoughts we might be keenly aware of would be organizing our thoughts according to our own wisdom or experience, or placing too much value on so-called ‘logical conclusions’ as apart from the teaching of the Holy Spirit through the Scripture. This, I know you will agree, is not of God.

• Not that what God says is non-reason but it is the mind of Christ we want. In my limited experience – and I stress, limited – we can be greatly helped by becoming accustomed to thinking in the very words of Scripture, having our mind formed by what it says, rather than trying to find our own expression or read into it what may be familiar around us.

There are found in the Scripture principles of separation both from evil and also of sanctification to God – we might say, that there is what we are saved from and also what we are saved to.

• Any lover of the Lord Jesus, having a desire to practice what is pleasing in His sight – who of these does not? – would wrestle with the instruction “quench not the Spirit … prove all things, hold fast the right; hold aloof from every form of wickedness”, 1 Thessalonians 5: 19-21.

• This maintenance becomes practical, as far as our side of this discussion is concerned, in two ways: to purge out the evil from among ourselves as in 1 Corinthians 5; or if the circumstances no longer permit, to purge oneself from evil as in 2 Timothy 2; that in so doing we might become vessels to honor, “we might become God’s righteousness in Him”.

QUOTATION from the response to Jeff's letter to his family: … driving a car doesn’t mean I’m an Atheist-Muslim. _____’s don’t make me a Nazi. My clothes don’t make me homosexual or abusive to children. Most importantly, singing hymns don’t make a brawler and celebrating Christmas doesn’t make me an idolater. This whole debate may boil down to the stronger vs. weaker brother concept. I can eat meat sacrificed to idols because I know that it has no more power or meaning than it did when it was grazing in the field. God’s grace allows me to eat it. Someone intended for that meat to be an offering to idols. God meant it to be nourishment to my physical body. In the same way, I can have a Christmas tree in my house without any fear of it being an idol. The tree has no more meaning or power that it did while planted in the ground. Christmas, Easter and Thanksgiving are no different. Someone intended for Christmas to be a pagan holiday but between God and His children it now means something else. I don’t dispute the origin but I will submit that God is more than able to claim everyday for Himself. We can celebrate those days because they have been given true meaning… celebrating the true Christmas can do more to encourage “The Body” toward righteousness than not celebrating it ever could.

I don't see how eating meat sacrificed to idols is comparable to taking up pagan religious practices – because that’s exactly what was taken up by Rome, and I’m very glad you admit that.

• Perhaps we should ask if pagan ritualism – or any ritualism for that matter – gains acceptance with God because of a certain period of time?

• Does certain ground become christian, as relativism would have it, upon the mere claim that ‘it now means something else’?

• For example, there is here locally a ‘reformed, protestant’ denomination that has taken up the practice of ‘guided meditation’; no doubt they would say to glorify God.

• You would say, ‘I could not accept guided meditation’ But on what ground can you reject it having already embraced paganism on the exact same principle?

• The only difference in your case being that there is thousand and a half years – see 2 Peter 3: 8 – to dull our senses to the link to demons and the spirit of the world.

• The true meaning of christmas is what it is always was, Babylon doesn’t change because Rome, transforming itself into ‘an angel of light’, slaps a thin gloss of christian terminology on it. Perhaps this is the reason why they quickly needed to become infallible at Rome.

Don’t get me wrong your personal motive is good. I don’t wish to dampen any zeal to glorify God. But motives must always be kept in company with the Spirit of truth.

• Regarding beverages, driving, and clothing I quite agree with you – but holidays are quite different in character from these, and hymns ought to be kept quite distinct from all, used as they are for holy purposes in the worship and service of God – and
  • if for that holy service I cannot think of a reason why one would want to offer a hymn having knowledge that it’s tune is a familiar bar-song.

• Paul asks if “what is sacrificed to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything?” Clearly he does not think these are something, but he goes on,
  • “But that what the nations sacrifice they sacrifice to demons, and not to God. Now I do not wish you to be in communion with demons. Ye cannot drink the Lord’s cup, and the cup of demons: ye cannot partake of the Lord’s table, and of the table of demons. Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?” 1 Corinthians 10: 19-22.

• Based on this I must disagree that we face a question of stronger versus weaker faith. It is entirely a question of what is suitable to God and what provision He Himself has made for approach in Christ Jesus.

• All ground, wider or narrower than what the Spirit sets forth is going beyond the Scripture that He was pleased to inspire.

Some offerings to God are unacceptable, but we are not left wondering over that because He has expressed His feelings about it so that His mind can be known.

• What do we have as examples to help? – I’m sure there is much more to be had out of these illustrations, but a principle is clearly demonstrated despite my feeble presentation.

• Cain made an offering upon which Jehovah “did not look”. The offering was rejected because it was made according to Cain’s thoughts about suitability and not what Jehovah was pleased to have Abel bring out: that there was a Lamb to come, “Him who knew not sin was made sin for us”.

• Jehovah, seeing that Cain feels the rejection, comes with very intimate and loving instruction. Yet in the end Cain asserts his truly horrible sense of ‘liberty’.

When Abraham was commanded to sacrifice Isaac, another typically priestly service, Jehovah said,

• “Take now thy son, thine only son, whom thou lovest, Isaac, and get thee into the land of Moriah, and there offer him up for a burnt-offering …”

• The question this raises is how ‘only son’ was Isaac when Ishmael was a young man? Abraham had another son whose existence is not acknowledged in this instance, for Ishmael was not the son of promise, he was a son by Hagar and made an example of God’s disregard of self-will.

Nadab and Abihu, priests, were slain by Jehovah after they “presented strange fire before Jehovah, which he had not commanded them”.

Following Israel’s captivity, Haggai’s question to the priests was,

• “If one bear holy flesh in the skirt of his garment, and with his skirt do touch bread, or pottage, or wine, or oil, or any food-shall it become holy? And the priests answered and said, No”.

• In other words, we need to intelligently take into account the scope of an offering – what makes it holy and to what does that holiness extend?

• On the other hand, “If one that is unclean by a dead body touch any of these, is it become unclean? And the priests answered and said, It shall be unclean.” So it does work in the reverse!

All this leads us to the priesthood of believers, the members of the body, ‘My assembly’ – Matthew 16: 18 –

• “To whom coming, a living stone, cast away indeed as worthless by men, but with God chosen, precious, yourselves also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God by Jesus Christ”, 1 Peter 2: 4-5.

QUOTATION from the response to Jeff's letter to his family: “There is a concept that I like to call “Negative Righteousness” which is righteousness defined by the list of things I don’t do. (I don’t drink alcohol, smoke or chew tobacco. I don’t dance or go to PG13 movies. I don’t drink anything with caffeine in it and I don’t eat meat on Fridays.) I think scripture shows the Pharisees and Sadducees as ones who practiced negative righteousness. Christ, on the other hand, taught positive righteousness …”

I understand what you call ‘negative righteousness’ and your use of the Pharisee and Sadducee to explain it, and as far as your observation of their behavior, I would also agree.

• But there is an aspect to the Pharisees and Sadducees that is overlooked; not the legalism and the political conniving and such things, these particulars are interesting and instructive.

• But the particulars cannot really be understood until the question of why these sects existed in the first place is answered, because the ground on which they proceed is foundational for their wicked behavior.

Where does one read of the Pharisee or the Sadducee or Zealot before the gospel accounts? Where do you hear of a synagogue as a place of gathering for Israel in all the books of Moses? or the remainder?

• They follow nothing more high and noble than sectarianism, self-promotion, and “the sleight of men, in unprincipled cunning with a view to systematized error”, Ephesians 4: 14.

• Not only did these men practice ‘negative righteousness’ but positive rebellion against God; establishing their own religious systems and adding to that which God had provided as a suitable way of approach in that dispensation.
  • The Lord said, “But in vain do they worship me, teaching as their teachings commandments of men. For, leaving the commandment of God, ye hold what is delivered by men to keep-washings of vessels and cups, and many other such like things ye do”, Mark 7: 7-8.

• The most uninstructed can understand the Lord’s feelings of such men, His rebukes to them are many and well known. But do we connect our understanding with what is presently about us?

• Do we not see His exclusion of them from His blessed company and find there a useful principle for regulating all that we might connect ourselves with? It is a very serious thing to be found out of company with Him.

• I do not find it to be the least bit of a stretch to consider what we have about us in the ‘churches’ and in their teachings in this very light, for likewise, we do not find a B— or a C— C— or a G— B— in the New Testament.

• What is the practical difference? I do not mean to say that these would crucify the Lord Jesus, but neither would have ‘all in Asia’ who had abanoned Paul – and the Pharisees and Saducees themselves didn’t begin by delivering Jesus to be crucified.

• But why reject Paul specifically? Again, to Timothy, he says,
  • “Be not therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner; but suffer evil along with the glad tidings, according to the power of God”, 2 Timothy 1: 8.

• Paul’s teaching is heavenly and men with affection for the world who follow its ways of approach to God are not free, even though professing Christ, to “pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace, with those that call upon the Lord out of a pure heart”.

QUOTATION from the response to Jeff's letter to his family The problem in “The Church” today is no different than it was in the first century. And we are no more or less equipped (or obligated) as the first Christians were to deal with it …

In the Pharissee and Saducee you have a full-blown religious establishment, and I believe that is where most christians have been for a very long time now.

• Paul’s difficulty with Corinth was exactly the same but it was undeveloped, they were yet salvagable from their condition. Notice how familiar it sounds:
  • “that each of you says, I am of Paul, and I of Apollos, and I of Cephas, and I of Christ”, 1 Corinthians 1: 12.

• Insert any prominent clergyman, ‘faith-based’ organization, or denomination you like, what Paul is saying could not be any more clear.

• Furthermore, I would suggest that we are far less equipped, and far more advanced in the evil, to deal with things as they are in the institutions of the day.At the very least, Corinth had Paul’s immediate help, that was no small thing.

• Much of what we find around us can be compared with : Corinthians all by itself. : Corinthians shows us that discipline is necessary for righteousness sake and 2 Timothy shows us how discipline is to be maintained in the various corners of the great house.

• But until one is clear of 1 Corinthians and acting on 2 Timothy there is not much available in the rest of Paul’s epistles because darkness hates the light.

QUOTATION from the response to Jeff's letter to his family: Yes, there are many flawed churches because they are comprised of sinners and led by sinners. But does this mean that I should reject “The Church” as a whole? Marriage is another flawed organization because it is also comprised of and led by sinners. Does that mean that I should disassociate myself from my wife? The only problem with the church is sin and it is pandemic. There is nothing I can do alone or in a church that is not stained by the presence of sin. God calls me to fellowship with “The Body” and I think scripture is clear about that. The question then isn’t whether or not to fellowship but how to fellowship as a sinner in a body of sinners. The majority of the New Testament contains Paul’s letters to churches that were flawed due to sin. Never does he tell them to go it alone as individuals nor does Paul reject “The Church” because of their corruption in sin. His counsel is to always continue to struggle together toward righteousness … I can’t love my neighbor (regenerate or degenerate) while locked in my house because of all the things I won’t do. Just like I can’t be part of “The Body” if I chose to be amputated because I can’t face my own sinfulness or the sinfulness of the other parts …

We can’t simply say all of Paul’s letters are of the same character because he wrote them,

• nor can we say that one meeting is the same as another meeting because they’re all the church and their only fault is that they manifest the flesh to one degree or another.

• I do not wish to shock you, but it is so vital to see that the individuals in these institutions who believe on the Lord Jesus are members in particular but out of accord with the light of the assembly
  • and therefore we reject any notion that these institutions comprise the assembly just because believers are found there.

• This is most difficult, and heart wrenching, that the church is in ruin publicly and beyond recovery. I don’t minimize the difficulty of that but I beg you to consider it carefully and prayerfully.

I strongly believe that the Scripture is full of examples of men and women who did indeed ‘go it alone’ in faith, and it’s plain that the concept is not foreign to Paul. But you are right in saying that Paul did not reject the church.

• He did not because he was the instrument of God to reveal it, he was a living stone in it, he counted all things to be dung compared with his knowledge of the One that said, “upon this rock I will build My assembly, and the gates of hades shall not prevail against it”.

• Paul never would instruct a christian to get out of the assembly, and neither do I, because it would mean apostasy. However, anticipating the rampant false teaching to come Paul said – again, to Timothy –
  • “the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, The Lord knows those that are his; and, Let every one who names the name of the Lord withdraw from iniquity”.

• So it is not the assembly itself you reject but systems that displace God in many various ways.

• It is not brethren you reject, as such, but refusing associations that do not answer to the demand of righteousness; finding yourself a bondman you are without the liberty to promote certain things.

• While the institutions of the day are beyond recovery, the truth is not. It is the burden of each one in these final days of the testimony to walk in the light of the truth of the church, alone if necessary,
  • and not go out and establish yet another form after our own taste where we might feel immediately comfortable.

Now I speak more for myself when I say that the time is far past when we ought to be grown men, ‘for by this time you ought to be teachers’.

• But we must judge what is right by Scripture not based on opinion. We must see that
  • all these institutions and their commercial offspring, the constant mixture of what is holy with what is common – or even profane – the denominationalism, the clerical system, the substitution of spiritual exercise for a secular style education, all amount to the displacement of God.

• Their very existence, like the Jewish sects before them, is the evidence that what publicly passes for the church has little practical answer to His mind as revealed in Scripture –
  • “… they are worldly in character and seek to accommodate themselves to men. Hence discipline cannot be maintained; the attempt would simply bring into them utter confusion, and therefore they do not answer the demand of righteousness, for if discipline be not maintained … you may be sure you cannot have righteousness”.

• But remember, the Lord knows those who are His – keep yourself from iniquity.
  • “The God of all grace who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ Jesus, when ye have suffered for a little while, himself shall make perfect, stablish, strengthen, ground: to him be the glory and the might for the ages of the ages. Amen”.

We are not under law, but legitimate subjects of Christ, going as far as we can with all brethren with inexhaustible patience – some of whom are snared, opposing themselves, 2 Timothy 2: 25-26.

• God deserves to have everything suitable to Himself because of who He is, and more, He wants us in the good of the way he has provided, partaking of His righteousness, but holding fast the (only) Head,

• “from whom all the body, ministered to and united together by the joints and bands, increases with the increase of God” and His increase is what is sure to go through eternally. Blessed be His name for that!

In regard to your comment on marriage you will no doubt find other features of responsibility due to your wife …

• Keep yourself in the love of God and watch over those whom He has entrusted to your care.

• I do hope you will keep me informed of your exercises about these vital matters as you are able.

In our Lord Jesus, Love, Jeff.

Such women had always been respected and valued by the brethren.

• But as the system became more pervasive there were unflattering remarks about their status made in the city reading. I recall rebuking one such comment and defending the sisters in the late 1960's.

• The uncalled for comment was made by a brother who in earlier years would never have spoken so rudely and callously. A year or so later he was promoted to 'leader' but I had escaped with my life.

Most if not all younger than I am – brothers and sisters alike – will not have any personal, or other, knowledge of the position of women among the brethren prior to 1959.

Paul's commission, as the Lord explained to Ananias, was as

• "an elect vessel to me, to bear my name before both nations and kings and the sons of Israel: for I will shew to him how much he must suffer for my name", Acts 9: 15-16.

• He was to witness before both "nations … and the sons of Israel". This Paul did as he later affirmed to Agrippa,
  • "I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision; but have, first to those both in Damascus and Jerusalem, and to all the region of Judaea, and to the nations, announced that they should repent and turn to God, doing works worthy of repentance", Acts 26: 19-20.

However, he was not "sent out by Jesus of Nazareth", but he and Barnabas were "sent forth by the Holy Spirit".

• That Paul – both on his first journey with Barnabas, and later with Silas and Timothy – should go to the synagogue, if there were one, does not prove his mission was to the Jews only.

• In fulfilment of "the work to which I" the Holy Spirit "have called them", Acts 13: 1, they would go to the synagogues expecting to find some Jews who waited for the hope of Israel as well as exercised Gentiles who had fled from idolatry to the then available knowledge of the one true God.

In the synagogue at "Antioch of Pisidia … many of the Jews and of the worshipping proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas", Acts 13: 14, 43.

• The next sabbath following opposition
  • "Paul and Barnabas spoke boldly and said, It was necessary that the word of God should be first spoken to you; but, since ye thrust it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, lo, we turn to the nations;

  • "for thus has the Lord enjoined us: I have set thee for a light of the nations, that thou shouldest be for salvation to the end of the earth.

  • "And those of the nations, hearing it, rejoiced, and glorified the word of the Lord, and believed, as many as were ordained to eternal life", Acts 13; 46-48; Isaiah 49: 6.

• Compare Acts 28: 25-28, and throughout the Acts.

Paul's ministry of "the glad tidings … both to Jew first and to Greek", Romans 1:16, would doubtless be supported by his great affection and concern "for my brethren, my kinsmen, according to flesh", Romans 9: 1-5.

• But following that Paul states unequivocally,
  • "For I speak to you, the nations, inasmuch as I am apostle of nations, I glorify my ministry", Romans 11: 13.

  • Later he speaks "of the grace given to me by God, for me to be minister of Christ Jesus to the nations, carrying on as a sacrificial service the message of glad tidings of God, in order that the offering up of the nations might be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit", Romans 15: 15-16.

• This was in accord with his opening words to the Romans that he had
  • "received grace and apostleship in behalf of his name, for obedience of faith among all the nations", Romans 1: 5.

• Of course, this is also clearly stated and expanded by Paul in Galatians 1: 15-18, Colossians 1: 24-29 and Ephesians 2: 11-2; 3: 8-12.

If, as you suggest "Paul's apostleship should be seen as one in which he was sent out to the Jews of the Dispersion, rather than to Gentiles",

• it is indeed strange that it is Peter – not Paul – who addresses himself
  • "to the sojourners of the dispersion of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,", 1 Peter 1: 1.

• Strange too, according to Galatians 2: 7-9
  • "seeing that the glad tidings of the uncircumcision were confided to me, even as to Peter that of the circumcision,

  • "(for he that wrought in Peter for the apostleship of the circumcision wrought also in me towards the Gentiles,)

  • "and recognising the grace given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were conspicuous as being pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship, that we should go to the nations, and they to the circumcision".

• The words "uncircumcision" – the 'nations' or 'Gentiles' – and "circumcision" – the Jews – are unequivocal.

• If your suggestion as to the relative spheres of their commission is correct, the foregoing would mean that James, Peter, John, Paul and Barnabas agreed together to do the complete opposite. Unthinkable!

Matthew 28: 16-18 clearly does not limit Peter and the others to the nations, i.e. non Jews.

• Luke 24: 47 explicitly states "to all the nations beginning at Jerusalem, which must include the Jews, as does Acts 2: 8.

Time available does not allow further exploration of this interesting matter, but I trust you will find the above of value in your considerations.

In the Lord, Gordon.

In the Lord, Gordon.

In answer to your second paragraph. As noted on 'My Brethren':

Wed, 5 Apr 2006

Dear Gordon,
I received your email reply, and I would like to send you and Jeff a booklet with several articles concerning baptism, including one by C. H. Mackintosh.

I would be thankful for your impressions after prayerfully considering these articles.

Love in Christ to you both. Your brother in Him,

Stephen Hesterman.

Mon, 1 May 2006

Dear Stephen,
Dear Stephen, We received your booklet 'Baptism' which you asked us to consider "prayerfully". We have both carefully reviewed the articles and offer our comments.

Jeff was brought up in an Anabaptist type group and baptised eight full years after his confession, his wife, baptised with the same group and then re-baptised only a few short years later in order to join the local Baptists with her parents.

• Gordon, following his conversion at 16 years, was baptized in connection with an 'open' meeting.

• Both of us are therefore quite conversant with the arguments for adult believer's baptism, as well as those against 'household' baptism, and find nothing new or convincing to us in either respect in your booklet.

We believe that you are mistaken in your interpretation and the position you have now taken, but in view of your definite rejection of what we believe is sound ministry on the subject there does not appear to be any value in answering all of your remarks point by point.

It is interesting to note that when Gordon left the legal sect in the early 1970's, in his disillusionment he sought various points of doctrine to attack, seeking to justify both his position and the state of things.

• Baptism was not one of these points, but there were others on which he attempted to 'pin' all the trouble.

• We wondered whether your experience has not affected you in the same way to one degree or another.

We note that you only lightly object to J.N.D.'s views of textual matters –

• overlooking that he was probably stronger than any in his denunciation of adult believer's baptism only, and said "I affirm, according to scripture, baptism is just christening that is, the introduction into Christianity, and nothing else. Every other view of it is unscriptural and false"

• – and that you seem to rely heavily, if not completely, on C.H.M.'s views.

Also, there are several remarks you make which cause us serious concern:

Page 9: "F.E.R.'s teaching shows the influence of unbiblical Anglican church teachings and practices as to baptism."

• But F.E.R.'s own testimony is: "I had the errors of the Church of England exposed to me, and I was attracted to brethren"; 9: 106.

Page 11: "Here J.T. downplays the importance of infants … And when J.T. says that it is not infant baptism that is being advanced, is he not playing with words?"

• You do not seem to have understood the force of A.N.W.'s remark nor J.T.'s response. He is not saying that infants are unimportant. He is saying the difficulty over infants is irrelevant – that it is not the age of the subject of baptism that is the force of the doctrine and that people may miss the 'household' while focusing on 'infants'.

• Additionally, we feel that qualifying a point in ministry is not playing with words, it is a common thing to qualify this way in ministry.

Page 11: "it is also sobering to consider J.T.'s household conditions and the evil influence which arose out of it …"

• J.T.Jr., born in 1899, was most certainly not living in J.T.'s household at the time of this ministry and it is an even greater stretch of the imagination to blame that household for things J.T.Jr. did as an adult, in his early 60's, several years after his father was taken.

• Your conclusion here is, we think, based on a fallacious reasoning.

Page 12: "… cleverly worded statements in the Wycherley letters",

Page 13: "C.W.W.'s clever use of the phrase 'strict letter' … tends to unfairly bias the readers' mind to devalue the authority of Scripture."

• Surely you don't mean to attribute to Mr. Wycherley such a deceitful practice as that from which Peter dissociates himself:

• "For we have not made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, following cleverly imagined fables, but having been eyewitnesses of his majesty", 2 Peter 1: 16.

What saddens us is that your tendency to use such pejorative remarks – in the manner of those we have left – serves to discredit the ministers personally not just their ministry – servants whose commitment, devotion and service, we believe, far exceeds ours and yours.

• The attack on Moses was – to use your word – "cleverly" put forward to discredit him but his attackers received the reply "Why then were you not afraid to speak against my servant, against Moses?", Numbers 12: 8.

Having published your position, as you have, tends to make it unchangeable but, nevertheless, we hope and trust that you will "prayerfully" reconsider your views.

Andrew Robertson, to whom you also sent your booklet, shares our concerns.

• He points out that C.H.M. says, "I complain not of any who conscientiously hold this view or that view on the subject, but I do complain of those, who instead of preaching and teaching Jesus Christ, are disturbing the minds of God's people by pressing infant baptism on them."

• Andrew suggests that this "complaint" could and should apply equally to those who press adult believer's baptism only.