Fundamental Truths
of Christianity
Early Ministry by G. R. Cowell
– Part Four

Romans 3: 21-28 – Righteousness of God

Righteousness of God is an immense thing. It is said to be revealed in the gospel, as in chapter 1 – "for righteousness of God is revealed therein, on the principle of faith, to faith".

• And we cannot think of this subject without thinking of the great day of atonement.

• Indeed, in chapter 3 it moves on immediately to it, referring to "the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God has set forth a mercy-seat, through faith in his blood, for the shewing forth of his righteousness".
  • So that we have to look at the passage in chapter 3 in an objective way to get the bearing of the greatness of it.

• We come into the matter in chapter 4, but chapter 3 is referring to righteousness of God; that God might be just (or righteous) and the Justifier of him that is of the faith of Jesus.
  • The whole passage in chapter 3 relates to God. Therefore the truth is presented at its height.

• Chapter 4 is our coming into it. We come into it by righteousness of faith, and chapter 4 (if we take the type of the day of atonement) scarcely goes further than what is called, in the Authorised Version,
  • the scapegoat, namely, that Jesus was delivered for our offences and raised for our justification. It is the way things are brought down to us to meet us in our need.

B.H.T. Is it quite in contrast to what prevailed under the old economy? You spoke of being set up in righteousness. Under the old economy they had to attain to it, did they not?

G.R.C. Yes, and there was no possibility of attaining it by works of law. The law was given that the offence might abound. The law was weak through the flesh.

• If it had been possible for man in the flesh to carry out the law he would have lived by law. And that would have been man's righteousness – not God's.

• If the law could have been fulfilled, at the very best it would only have been man's righteousness.

B.H.T. Is that the very start of Romans – God's righteousness?

G.R.C. Yes, it is in contrast to man's. All that the law could require was man's righteousness,

• but the law only proved that all our righteous-nesses are as filthy rags, and so there was no hope on that line. It only caused the offence to abound.

• It exposed the offences and made them more hideous and apparent. We therefore needed Someone to come in Who would be delivered for our offences.

F.J.F. It was like a looking-glass, was it not, to shew you how dirty you were?

G.R.C. Quite so. The law is our tutor up to Christ. For those who use the law lawfully, that is, apply it to themselves, honestly, it brings them to a point where their only hope is in Christ. It shews them there is no hope in themselves at all.

• The real purpose of the law is to bring us to an end of ourselves. For Christ is the end of the law for righ-teousness to everyone who believes. If only people would use the law honestly it would bring them to Christ.

N.C.J.C. What is in mind where it says that the law is "holy, and just, and good" as over against what we are saying?

G.R.C. The law is the perfect standard of conduct for man on earth, and therefore it is holy and just and good. The righteous requirement of it, which is not in the letter, is that

• "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thine understanding; and thy neighbour as thyself", Luke 10: 27.

• That is the spirituality, as it were, of the law. But the very form in which the literality of it was given, showed that man was a sinner, because nearly all the commandments are negatives –
  • they are prohibitions, proving that they were addressed to man as under the power of sin and telling him what he should not do.

• And therefore, in its very nature – though men would not accept it and had to learn by experience – it proved that it could not be the way to life and righteousness for men. The very prohibitions indicated that man was under sin.

• But the positive side of the law, the spirituality of it, is fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.

• Through divine grace we do love God and, if we move on in His love and abide in it, we shall be brought to a point where we love Him with all our heart and soul and mind and strength, and the sooner we get to that the better.

• But it is divine grace alone which brings us to that – the knowledge of God and His love and His righteousness.

F.J.F. The Lord magnified the law and made it honourable. But He was the only One who did.

W.E.G. I suppose the law is like a plumbline. They used it in the olden days to show that the wall was not straight. But that plumbline could never put that wall straight.

G.R.C. And yet, of course, there is a greater plumbline. The law was the rule of conduct for man on earth. But Christ is the true standard.

• What came out in Christ exceeds anything which the law commanded. The law never commanded anyone to lay down his life and to save sinners.

• The law said "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth"; but after every kind of indignity and suffering had been heaped upon Christ, He then took all the guilt upon Himself.

• The law never visualized such a thing. So that Christ is the great standard, Christ is the One who truly expressed God.

• The law does not express God fully; it sets out God's righteous requirement for man on earth but it does not display God in His nature and character.

• Christ displayed God in His nature and character. He is the image of God and that is the real standard. Law is not the real standard. The law has been our tutor up to Christ, but it is not the real standard.

• Christ is the standard and that is indicated in the passage we have read, "for all have sinned" – that is one thing (as the note indicates) – "and come short of the glory of God". Now that is the standard.

• We have come short of our responsibility as men: we were created to express God's image and glory. 1 Cor. 11: 7. That is greater than the law.

• The face of a man was created with ability to express the attributes of God. Man can express love, kindness, compassion, mercy, anger.
  • God created a creature with a face capable of expressing Himself in His character, and man has failed. We have all come short.

• The responsibility committed to man was to represent God in the creation and man has failed in that responsibility.
  • The degrading sins we have dropped into are incidental, but the primary thing is that we have failed in the initial responsibility put upon us.

• Christ has come and has fully displayed God in a way man in innocence could never have done, and the glory of God is now seen in His face; that wonderful face of Jesus expresses every feature of the divine nature and character in full display.

• Wonderful contemplation, which will ever be ours! But we have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

R.S. So that the standard that disclosed what man was, was answered by a standard that has no limit. Where sin abounded, grace over-abounded.

G.R.C. That was specially seen at the cross. Sin abounded at the crucifixion. It was man's greatest sin; his reaction to perfect goodness was seen in the way he treated Christ, and judgment had to fall at that moment.

• Judgment could not be delayed. That is what we have to see – the great crisis had arrived.

• Satan no doubt thought that having led man to that crowning sin of crucifying God's Son, God would be obliged to sweep the scene in judgment, and God's purpose as to man would fail.

• But Satan does not understand love. Love is foreign to him; and I do not think he ever could have thought that the holy Sufferer would then take all the guilt upon Himself.

• Where sin abounded, rose to its height, in the crucifixion, grace over-abounded, and Christ took all the guilt upon Himself.

• Satan was utterly confounded, utterly defeated. That is how the battle was won and that is how God's righteousness has come into manifestation.

R.S. Is that why without law the righteousness of God is manifested? God has reserves in Himself of mercy and love.

G.R.C. Law came in that the offence might abound. Ostensibly it was to give man a rule of life so that he might earn eternal life,

• but from the divine standpoint the law came in that sin might abound and that all might be shut up under sin.

• So that in Romans chapters 1-3 you have every kind of man brought before you – man in his depravity, civilized man and the Jew.
  • Every kind of man is brought before you, and all are shown to be without excuse.

• In whatever way you look at him, man could never work out his own righteousness; there is no such thing as righteousness of man.

• But then against that black background, righteousness of God is manifested; when everything on man's side had failed, then righteousness of God, without law, is manifested, borne witness to by the law and the prophets.

• That is the remarkable thing; the very law by which the offence abounded, was accompanied by the tabernacle system which was really typical of Christianity.

• In bringing the law in, which was only going to make the offence abound, God brought alongside of it Christianity, typically.

• So righteousness of God is manifested, but it was borne witness to by the law in all the offerings and the sacrifices and the tabernacle system generally, and by the prophets.

• It is a wonderful thing that God has borne witness to His righteousness from the beginning of time in that sense, even in the clothing of Adam and his wife, and faith has always laid hold of it, faith has always gone outside of law for righteousness.

R.L. Man in innocence knew nothing about righteousness, did he?

G.R.C. No. He had not the knowledge of good and evil.

F.J.F. That young man that came to the Lord and said he had fulfilled the law – "all these things have I kept from my youth", Mark 10: 20 – did not know what was in his own heart.

G.R.C. The commandment by which sin slew Paul was the last one. Romans 7: 11. It is not the law that slays people. Sin slays people by the law, and brings on them the curse of the law.

• In connection with that young man, the last commandment is not quoted. Paul "was alive without law once", Romans 7: 9.

• The first nine commandments did not trouble him. He was self-righteous and thought he could make a good case as regards fulfilling the first nine.

• But when he put himself honestly under the tenth commandment, "Thou shalt not lust", sin wrought in him every lust – the law exposed all the lusts that were there.

• The fact that there was a commandment "Thou shalt not lust", brought home to his conscience that in his heart was every kind of lust, and he could not get away from that;
  • and therefore sin, getting a point of attack by the commandment "slew me".

• And it is a good thing if it slays every one of us. Then we begin to live to God. "I, through law, have died to law, that I may live to God", Galatians 2: 19.

C.M.M. Does the Lord put His finger on the spot when He says: "No one is good but one, that is God"? Would that have a bearing on the righteousness of God?

G.R.C. It would. And what He puts to the young man is just the test of the last commandment – "sell whatever thou hast and give to the poor".

• The Lord knew that that young man's heart was bound up with his possessions, that he wanted eternal life simply in order to go on enjoying his possessions.

• He may have had some fear of God but there was no thought of God being the centre of his life. So the Lord says, "sell whatever thou hast and give to the poor … and come, follow me".

• That was the test as to his love for God, and bears on the last commandment, for unbridled desire – or lust – is idolatry.

B.H.T. Would you kindly give a definition of the word "righteousness"?

C.M.M. Did Mr. Raven not say that righteousness is what is right?

G.R.C. Yes. God is righteous in all His ways and just in all His works.

• But then, God would have been righteous if He had executed judgment upon the whole race of men on account of the sin of the crucifixion.

• When His judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness. So that there is that aspect.

• But righteousness of God here is a specific matter. It is not simply that God is righteous, because if He judged the world He would be righteous.

• But this is righteousness of God for man. Sinner as he is, when man could not work out his own righteousness, God brought in righteousness for him, righteousness of God.

• Therefore in the gospel righteousness of God is manifested. Not simply that God is righteous, that is always true; but in the gospel God brings forward righteousness of His own, when men could do nothing about it.

F.v.R. If the young man had answered to what Scripture says – "Jesus looking upon him loved him" – that would have been his salvation.

G.R.C. And how God has looked upon us and loved us. We might wonder why the first thing brought in in connection with the glad tidings is righteousness.

• Paul says, "I am not ashamed of the glad tidings … for righteousness of God is revealed therein, on the principle of faith, to faith", Romans 1: 16-17.

• We might say to Paul, 'Why did you not say the love of God is revealed, because it is true?'

• The fact that God has revealed His righteousness for men is the proof of His love. Everything that comes to us in the glad tidings springs from what God is.

• God is love, and it is because He is love that He has found a way, at infinite cost to Himself, of bringing in righteousness for men, "the free gift of righteousness", chapter 5: 17. He has provided it.

• Divine love has done that – perfect love. Perfect love means a love that does not act at the expense of righteousness.

• A love which acted without regard to righteousness would never cast out fear. But perfect love casts out fear, because perfect love acts on the basis of righteousness at all costs to itself, and that is what God has done.

W.E.G. So all the time God was working to bring us in for His pleasure.

G.R.C. He was; and all the time He was bearing witness; "borne witness to by the law and the prophets", Rom. 3: 21.

• God always had in His mind that He was going to manifest His righteousness, and all the way through He bore witness to it in the law and the prophets.

• But now it is manifested, now it is as clear as daylight, as we may say.

E.S. It is "towards all, and upon all those who believe". It is available for all men, but it is upon those that believe. It is clothing them.

G.R.C. Yes. Like the coats of skin He made for Adam and his wife. We are clothed, because it is upon all those who believe; and that brings in chapter 4, v. 13; that is "righteousness of faith".

• Righteousness of God is what the righteousness is, the quality of it. It is of God, nothing of man in it. It is righteousness of God, manifested, available to all, and upon all them that believe; it is a free gift, the free gift of righteousness.

• But we come into it by faith. It is only those who believe that get the benefits. From our angle therefore it is called "righteousness of faith", in contrast to works.

N.J.C. So God had Christ before Him in this matter of righteousness. And the righteousness of God by faith of Jesus Christ means that we should have Him objectively before us?

G.R.C. It means that Jesus Christ is the object of our faith.

F.J.F. Did we see this righteousness set forth in Abraham when God asked him to count the stars – and it says "Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness"?

G.R.C. Yes. So that he is the father of us all; he has marked out the way, or God through him has marked out the way, that we may come into the gain of it.

• "It was not by law that the promise was to Abraham, or to his seed, that he should be heir of the world"
  (v. 13) "but by righteousness of faith".

• It was not that righteousness of God had been manifested then; Abraham could not have explained to you on what ground God was reckoning him righteous. But what Abraham illustrates is the way we come into it, that we come into it by faith.

W.E.G. So Christ is the object of faith. That is why it does not say "believe in" but "believe on the Lord Jesus and thou shalt be saved".

G.R.C. Quite so. And we must not think that because it says "righteousness of faith", it means our faith is our righteousness. That is not the point at all.

• Our faith is not our righteousness, but it is by faith we come into the gain of God's righteousness.

• It is righteousness of faith in that sense, but it is not a question of the amount of our faith; as soon as we are of the faith of Jesus, God accounts us righteous.

• But it is not our faith that is our righteousness. It would be a great mistake to think that.

L.D.V. Would you help us as to the basis upon which the righteousness of God is? It speaks of the redemption which is in Christ Jesus.

G.R.C. I think it is set out in chapter 3. It would refer to the day of atonement and the way the blood was taken in and placed on the mercy-seat,

• and we know that what gave atoning efficacy to the blood, in the type, was that the body of the victim was burnt outside the camp.

• What has given such efficacy to the blood of the Christ is that He has endured the all-consuming judgment of God in respect of sins and sin.*

*Hebrews 13: 11-12 is a New Testament scripture referring to this holy subject. The intrinsic value of the blood of Christ is infinite. But the point here is its efficacy to satisfy the claims of God's throne and the requirements of His holiness in respect of sins and sin. For this His sufferings from God as bearing sins and as made sin were essential. His sufferings from man as the perfect witness or martyr would not have sufficed.   GRC

• He has borne it all! That gives His blood efficacy; and it was sprinkled on the mercy-seat and seven times before the mercy-seat,
  • in the type a full witness before God that every right of His throne has been upheld, and that a basis is laid whereby He can move out to men in absolute righteousness, and yet justify them.

• That is the righteousness of God as revealed in the gospel. God can be righteous and yet set up the sinner in righteousness.

• God's righteousness would have been manifested if He had just come out in judgment, but the righteousness of God which is manifested in the glad tidings, is that Christ has gone in and the blood is on the mercy-seat,
  • and, in virtue of that, God has a basis whereby He can be righteous in an absolute sense and yet freely justify the believer in Jesus.

F.J.F. Why do not men receive it more?

G.R.C. "The god of this world has blinded the thoughts of the unbelieving, so that the radiancy of the glad tidings of the glory of the Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine forth for them", 2 Corinthians 4: 4.

• The radiancy of the glory of God is now shining in the face of the Man who glorified Him on the cross, shining now in the presence of God, shining for men, and the enemy can only hold men away by blinding their thoughts.

• There are the lords of this darkness. The conflict lies in bringing light to men. The way is clear now, the way to God; it is only a question of enlightening men as to it. But the god of this world is blinding the thoughts of the unbelieving. Is that so?

F.J.F. Yes, beloved. I am sorry to say it is so.

G.R.C. And, of course, man's will is in it.

F.J.F. He does not want God at any price.

D.M.S. What is the thought of the "faith of Jesus"?

G.R.C. It means that He is the object of faith.

C.M.P. The perfection of His manhood, to which the law had nothing to say, made it possible for God to bring such a One as the sacrifice, so that He alone becomes the Object of faith for men.

G.R.C. Quite so. Jesus alone could fulfil the qualifications needed for the sacrifice. The sacrifice had to be without blemish, and without spot.

J.W.B. Is that the way it is given in Corinthians – "Him who knew not sin he has made sin for us, that we might become God's righteousness in him", 2 Cor. 5: 21. Christ in that way is enhanced in our affections, is He not?

G.R.C. He is. Jesus knew no sin, and "in him sin is not".

F.J.F. He did this as a man. Though He was God, He did it as a man.

G.R.C. Quite so. He must be a Man to take up man's case and to glorify God where man had dishonoured Him. It must be through a Man that the victory is won.

L.D.V. We understand in some measure that the blood of the Lord Jesus has washed us from our sins, but do we not need to understand, if we are to come into the joy of God's righteousness, how that blood has been put on the mercy-seat?

G.R.C. I think we learn as we go on, how the blood has met the claims of God, and of His throne.

• This chapter is setting things out from the divine side. I do not think it is a question here of how far we have apprehended the blood going in, but it is a question of God;
  • righteousness of God is manifested, and we are "justified freely by his grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus" – that is justification viewed at the highest level, not as at the end of chapter 4.

• There it is more the scapegoat aspect, which we need down here. But this is the full thing. We are before God according to His full thought in Christ Jesus.

• And then it says "whom God has set forth". Christ Jesus, this blessed Man, is glorified and in the presence of God, He Himself the ark, He Himself the mercy-seat with the cherubim of glory overshadowing; He Himself the One through whom God is shining out on men, as it says that God would "appear in the cloud upon the mercy-seat", Lev. 16: 2.

• What a glorious Person is presented – "Christ Jesus; whom God has set forth a mercy-seat, through faith in his blood, for the shewing forth of his righteousness".

• It is what God has done to set Himself free, as it were, "for the shewing forth of his righteousness … that he should be just, and justify him that is of the faith of Jesus".

• But according to the sin-offerings, you see, the faith of Jesus comes right down to a bloodless offering. It is possible for a person to be saved without much, if any, apprehension of the value of the blood.
  • The smallest sin-offering was the tenth part of an ephah of fine flour, Leviticus 5: 11. "But if his hand cannot attain to two turtle-doves, or two young pigeons, then he that sinned shall bring for his offering the tenth part of an ephah of fine flour for a sin-offering: he shall put no oil on it, neither shall he put frankincense thereon; for it is a sin offering. And he shall bring it to the priest, and the priest shall take his handful of it, the memorial thereof, and burn it on the altar, with Jehovah's offerings by fire; it is a sin-offering. And the priest shall make atonement for him concerning his sin which he hath sinned in one of these, and it shall be forgiven him".

• How it shows the grace of God – "him that is of the faith of Jesus". A soul may have no further apprehension than the absolute perfection of Jesus and say, 'I will trust Jesus because He is the only perfect one', and that is sufficient from the side of our coming into things.

• But this chapter is presenting what was necessary from God's side to do such a thing.

• The thief dying by Christ's side, I would say, was like the one who just brought the tenth part of an ephah of fine flour. His appreciation was "this man has done nothing amiss", and then, in praying to the Lord, he shows that he trusted Him. He was trusting in the Man who had done nothing amiss.*

* "There is an even smaller measure in one who brings 'the tenth part of an ephah of fine flour'. This represents the feeblest measure of exercise that is taken account of in this connection … a sense that he has done wrong, and … of the perfectness of Christ. He could say of Him, like the thief, 'This man has done nothing amiss'". C.A.C. Outline of Leviticus, Ch. 5, pp. 62-3.

J.v.N. God brought in everything and it is God's righteousness, so it says, "and where then is boasting?" There is no boasting for us in all this, verse 27.

G.R.C. No flesh can glory in His presence. God has done all this Himself, through Christ Jesus, and now He sets Him forth in the gospel.

• The heavens are opened now, as we sing sometimes; we can direct men to Christ Jesus, the glorified Man in the presence of God;

• and if you present the gospel as it should be presented, persons will have an apprehension of the value of the blood, but still, it is comforting to know that it covers everyone who is of the faith of Jesus.

S.P.S. Does that emphasize God's own sovereignty in the greatness of the work of Christ? It would help to set us free from any thought of ourselves and our faith, as you said just now.

• It is a great comfort that just a simple apprehension of Christ Himself is sufficient. It would emphasize the greatness of the work of Christ, and what God has secured in the work of redemption.

G.R.C. God's righteousness is thus manifested as a glorious thing. If God had manifested His righteousness only in judgment, there would have been a certain glory attached to it, but nothing like this. Mr. Darby says,

Hymn 88: 4, 1973.

• Think of the radiance of glory which now shines because of the way God has established and manifested His righteousness!

• All that God is in His nature and character has come into display. His nature, love, is now in full display; He must be love to have acted like this, and His character is in full display; He is perfectly righteous, perfectly holy, hating sin, judging sin.

• You have the full display of God now that His righteousness is manifested.

C.M.M. Would it be right to speak here of the millions of children that die in infancy? Is all that covered by the mercy-seat, and God's righteousness?

G.R.C. It appears so. "The Son of Man has come to save that which was lost", is said in connection with the little ones.

It is most important that we should understand the righteousness of God, for two reasons.

• One is that on our part it brings peace and assurance, and nothing else does.

• A gospel which only presented love would never give assurance, because it would leave you with an impression of love like human love, not perfect love.
  • It says "the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness, quietness and assurance for ever", Isaiah 32: 17,

• and no soul has real settled peace and assurance without some apprehension of righteousness of God. The more we understand the righteousness of God, the more thoroughly settled we shall be in our souls with God.

• Secondly, it promotes worship.

M.S.V. Are you suggesting that the righteousness of God should be more emphasized in our preaching? Many might not have true peace.

G.R.C. That is a good exercise. Every preaching should lay the basis of righteousness in the soul, otherwise no soul will get peace.

• But we need it in our own souls, too. That is one's concern now. I do not think we know much about righteousness of God.

• We may dismiss this as elementary, but it is not elementary because we never get beyond it.

• It says in 2 Corinthians 5: 21, "Him who knew not sin he has made sin for us, that we might become God's righteousness in him".
  • The saints in glory will be the eternal display of God's righteousness.

• You may say, 'Surely, the display of His love' – and that is so. Surely also a display of the exceeding riches of His grace in kindness towards us in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2: 7.

• But how essential that we should be the display of His righteousness.

A.A.E. In our gospel preachings we should constantly include some definite reference to the atoning work of Christ.

G.R.C. I am sure we should.

Remark. David moved in regard to Absalom on the basis of love apart from righteousness.

J.H.H. In the preaching of the glad tidings we are apt to think they are only for unbelievers, but they are necessary for the saints to constantly build them up in their most holy faith.

G.R.C. A sister who had been breaking bread for thirty years, recently found peace for the first time at a preaching where Christ was referred to as our righteousness. 1 Corinthians 1: 30.

• She had known in a general way that Jesus was the Saviour but she had never been able to say 'my Saviour' until then.

• We have had other cases somewhat similar, people breaking bread for years who never understood the basis of their salvation. That is a reflection on our preachings, is it not?

F.J.F. And doorkeeping.

G.R.C. Yes, indeed. J.N.D. made a remark to the effect that Christ is our righteousness, and we become the righteousness of God in Him.

• If you put those two things together, you cannot think of greater security for the believer.

• The righteousness of God involves that God has so wrought that Christ is the righteousness of the believer.
  • That is the quality of the righteousness which God has brought in for man.

• It says, "of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who has been made to us wisdom from God, and righteousness", 1 Corinthians 1: 30.

• Christ is our righteousness; and it is a matter of righteousness with God to place us where Christ is.

• Christ took our place and glorified God in taking up our case and therefore God has glorified Him; and it is an act of righteousness on God's part to place us in glory with Him.

F.J.F. And that will be set forth to wondering worlds. And does it not necessitate a glorified body?

G.R.C. It does. God gives us a glorified body on the basis of righteousness.

R.S. This dual reference here to shewing forth – "for the shewing forth of His righteousness" in verse 25, and in 26 "for the shewing forth of His righteousness in the present time" –

• do you think that involves the Christian testimony in this wonderful dispensation? So that these things should be constantly known, not only in the preaching, but in our behaviour amongst men and amongst the brethren.

G.R.C. I do not think you can speak of the righteousness of God now manifested in the gospel without speaking of the full outshining of God.

• It is God's righteousness with glory bright. In manifesting His righteousness as He has done, He has displayed His love and every feature of His character.

W.E.G. Mr. Darby's remarks, to which you referred, are too precious for words. We need the fundamentals.

G.R.C. I am sure we do. I would say everyone present, including myself, needs this foundation thoroughly laid in our souls,

• and one result of it will be, we shall be worshippers of God with a note in our worship that has never been there before.

M.S.V. In regard to the scripture "the righteousness of God in him", when are we actually "in him"? Is it by the Spirit or is it a transaction by faith in the soul?

G.R.C. lt is both. There is no thought with God of a believer not having the Spirit. They may not receive Him at once through defective gospel;

• but the pronouncement of the first preaching in Acts is "Repent … for remission of sins, and ye will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit".

• Repentance and faith go together, and the results go together normally, namely, remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit; and therefore we are in Christ.

E.S. The lady who had been breaking bread for 30 years, did she have an appreciation of the perfect Man that you were speaking of in Leviticus 5?

• But had she no appreciation then of the blood and of the righteousness of God?

• What I am trying to get at is – was she eternally safe for those 30 years, or was she deceiving herself?

G.R.C. I would say she was on the line of that smallest sin-offering. She had an appreciation of Christ. In her way she trusted Him, but never had peace because she did not understand the foundation.

• It was peace she had not got. And there have been other cases somewhat similar.

M.S.V. So it is very comforting to know that we are not saved on the basis of our apprehension of the truth.

G.R.C. That is why we have to look at chapter 3 by itself. It is a question of God.

Romans 4: 13, 16-17, 22-25 – Righteousness of Faith

Chapter 4 is our side, and from our side it is righteousness of faith. It is not a question of the quantity of our faith, it is the quality of it.

• It is the "faith of Jesus", however feeble. And as soon as we have faith, God reckons righteousness to us.

• Our faith is not our righteousness, but as soon as we have faith, God reckons to us the full value of righteousness which is in His mind, that is Christ as our righteousness.

• So that, if a person only has the "faith of Jesus" like the smallest sin-offering, nevertheless the full value of Christ as righteousness is reckoned to that soul by God. Chapter 3 shows us how God is free to do that.

W.E.G. I am glad you have spoken of that, because this puzzled me much as a young man, and I suppose all of us too.

• The quality of your faith, the amount of your faith, whether you have faith, this used to puzzle me for a long time, and I did not have peace.

• But it is very comforting that it has nothing to do with the amount of faith, but if it is in that blessed Person, God reckons us righteous.

G.R.C. Even old people are sometimes occupied with their faith and whether their faith is sufficient; but our faith is not our righteousness.

• Christ is our righteousness, and however feeble the faith, if it is the faith of Jesus, the whole value of the righteousness God has provided is reckoned to us. That is a great thing to see.

D.M.S. At what point does a soul give glory to God? Abra-ham was strong in faith, "giving glory to God", Rom. 4: 20.

G.R.C. He was inwardly strengthened by faith, not being weak in faith. That is the great point.

• We would not like to be amongst those who have the smallest sin-offering.

• We would like to be strong in faith so as to give glory to God, and that would touch on what we have been saying, that a person who apprehends this great truth will be a worshipper.

• He will be continually giving glory to God. He will be perfectly at rest in his own soul; in peace, and he will be continually giving glory to God who has shone out in such a marvellous way.

• But then in chapter 4 the teaching does not go further, in a way, than the scapegoat, and it is helpful to see that in considering the day of atonement.

• The blood of one of the goats was put on the mercy-seat, and the living goat had all the sins confessed upon its head and was sent away into a land not inhabited.

• The two goats refer to the basis of Israel's blessing in the day to come. They will be blessed here on earth in flesh and blood conditions;
  • and what a person in flesh and blood conditions needs is to be sure that all his sins have been taken away; he is still in the old circumstances, where they might be raised against him.

• So it is a great thing for him to be assured that all his sins have been borne and carried away.

But we must not dismiss the two goats as having no application to us. While we come into things on a higher plane altogether in connection with Aaron and his house, and the bullock,

• yet we begin just where Israel begins, in the sense that we are sinners down here, and we need to begin with being sure that our sins and iniquities He will remember no more. That is the first need of the soul.

• And so, Romans 4 brings the matter right down to that elementary point of soul need, because we are in flesh and blood conditions ourselves.

• Israel will remain in them during the millenium, but we are still in them ourselves down here, where we can be accused of sins by our fellowmen who can say 'We know all about him, we know his past history', and Satan can accuse us in our consciences.

• The first thing therefore we need is assurance that our sins have been carried away. And so it says, "Jesus our Lord, who has been delivered for our offences" (He has carried them all away) and "raised for our justification".

L.D.V. The resurrection is the proof of the sins being carried away. The apostle says that "if Christ be not raised – ye are yet in your sins", 1 Corinthians 15: 17.

• So that the resurrection would show that God is giving us the assurance that all the sins have been dealt with and are removed for ever.

G.R.C. That is the elementary need of the soul. We believe in the God who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was delivered for our offences.

• They were all on Him then. He confessed and bore our sins. But He is raised clear of them.

• So that our sins have gone into the land of forgetfulness. The end of the chapter 4 is the scapegoat aspect of things.

• In the note on chapter 3: 25, Mr. Darby says, "we have the two parts of the work of the great day of atonement, here and in chapter 4: 25".

• That is, here in chapter 3 we have the blood on the mercy-seat: and the other part of the day of atonement is the scapegoat, the sins being carried away in chapter 4: 25.

J.v.N. So is that why the Lord could say "It is finished", on the cross?

G.R.C. The great work of atonement, in so far as His drinking of the cup of wrath was concerned, was finished.

• We know His burial was an essential part, and the blood and water that flowed from His side, but these occurred after His death.

• So far as His life in flesh and blood was concerned, the work was finished. + *

+ This remark has been amplified to make clearer the thought that was in the speaker's mind and to avoid ambiguity. * "The water and the blood that were shed were when He was dead – it is vital to hold that He gave up His life and that it was not taken from Him by shedding His blood. I quite admit He had really to die. But the reality of His drinking the cup of wrath, which, unquestionably from Scripture, was accomplished before He gave up His spirit, is of the last importance". JND's Letters 3: 392. New Series. 464 Morrish. Ottawa, Nov. 1867. "In the measure in which He knew holiness and love, and that was absolute, He felt what it was to be made sin before God and forsaken. And though the physical death came after, then He, morally speaking, drank the cup. It was necessary He should freely give up His own spirit, all being finished, in peace ... a divine act when all was done". JND's Letters 3: 195, New Edition. 231 Morrish. November 12th, 1881.

C.M.M. Would you just say a word about the distinction between propitiation and substitution?

G.R.C. Propitiation is that view of the work of Christ which meets the claims of the throne.

• That is, the blood is carried in, and all the claims of God's throne are met; sin has been put away from before God's sight judicially.

• Therefore He can look out favourably upon all men, because sin is put away from His sight judicially.

• But substitution refers to Christ taking the place of those who believe; He actually took our place so that the believer can say, He was "delivered for our offences". That is faith appropriating it. Is that so?

C.M.M. We would have to be careful, in preaching to unbelievers, about saying, for instance, 'He bore your sins in His own body', would we not?

G.R.C. We have to keep to Scripture and say He "bore our sins". We can say in the preaching He "bore our sins" because we are referring then to those who believe,

• but it is not right to say to a mixed audience, 'He bore your sins'.

C.M.M. Would that bear on the distinction here, broadly speaking: chapter 3 would cover propitiation and chapter 4 be more the substitution side?

G.R.C. The scapegoat is more the substitution side. The sins were actually confessed on the head of the scapegoat, and those sins were borne and carried away.

E.S. The whole world stands in provisional reconciliation before God.

C.M.P. There is a word in John that says "he is the propitiation for our sins; but not for ours alone, but also for the whole world", 1 John 2: 2.

G.R.C. Yes. God is looking out favourably upon all men, because the work of propitiation is accomplished.

L.D.V. Why does it say here, in connection with the carrying away of the sins, that we should believe "on him who has raised from among the dead Jesus our Lord"? In chapter 3 it was faith in His blood and faith in Jesus.

G.R.C. Because this is the kind of faith which gives you peace.

• Abraham was evidently in his day given some sense of justification, that he was free with God, though he was looking on to Christ.

• But this is the kind of faith of which it speaks in chapter 5, verse 1 – "Therefore having been justified on the principle of faith, we have peace towards God". He was raised for our justification.

L.D.V. So would the righteousness of faith lead to justification? It gives the quotation from Psalm 32. The one side is that the sins are covered, but the other statement is that Jehovah reckons no sin to us.

R.S. Is that not what is meant when it says "and justify him that is of the faith of Jesus"? That brings you into a sense of justification, does it not?

G.R.C. That is God's side. God justifies the man who is of the faith of Jesus. He views him as justified. Chapter 4 and the beginning of 5 is our coming into the gain of that and getting peace.

R.S. Do you think you could have the one without the other? If God gives a sense of justification do you think that would work out in my soul in the way of justification by faith?

G.R.C. But chapter 3 does not say that God is going to give you the sense of it.

• It just says that a situation has been brought about where God can be just and the Justifier of him that believes in Jesus.

• That is entirely God's side. He would view a person who is of the faith of Jesus as justified in His sight even though he had not peace.

• But the end of chapter 4 and the beginning of chapter 5 shows how we come into the thing on our side; and that is what we should see.

• We do not want to remain in an unsettled state of soul. Abraham "found strength in faith, giving glory to God".

R.S. So that you are stressing the exercise of faith in the soul in response to the glad tidings.

G.R.C. Yes.

L.D.V. Is not the point of justification that I see now that the sins have been removed for ever? He says He will not reckon sin to us at all.

G.R.C. Yes. Justification involves that we are set up before God in a state of subsisting judicial righteousness.

• In a note of JND to chapter 5: 16, the latter part, it says 'It is the state of accomplished subsisting righ-teousness before God, in which justification places us'.

• You cannot expect to find in the Old Testament a clear setting out of what justification is. You must come to the New.

• We are justified in Christ, See Galatians 2: 17; Acts 13: 39. We have accomplished subsisting righteousness before God, because Christ is our righteousness.

F.J.F. It never varies. And would you say that once we have peace we never lose it?

G.R.C. Not in this sense. The person who has come to this will never have fear of the penal consequences of his sins again.

• "The worshippers once purged having no longer any conscience of sins", Hebrews 10: 2.

Romans 8: 9-10 – Practical Righteousness

Now just a word or two on practical righteousness may help.

• If we appreciate the righteousness of God that has been manifested, we shall hunger and thirst after righteousness. We shall not be satisfied without practical righteousness.

• No one who understands his justification in Christ and the cost at which it has been brought about, could ever be satisfied to go on as he did before.

• He must, in the very nature of things, yearn to yield himself to God as alive from among the dead and his members as instruments of righteousness to God.

• So he hungers and thirsts after righteousness, practical righteousness; and Romans 8 shows how God has come in, in grace, to enable us to fulfil the desires of our hearts in that respect;
  • and also He desires to have a people here, not only set up before Him in a state of subsisting righteousness in Christ,

  • but also maintained in a state of subsisting practical righteousness on earth, in the power of the Holy Spirit.

• It is all in divine grace. Remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit is what is presented in the gospel – not one without the other.

• The remission of sins is what we have been speaking about, but then there is the gift of the Holy Spirit which sets us up in practical righteousness before God on earth.

W.D.McK. So that you wonder if these great matters that you have been bringing before us are not included in the depths of God.

G.R.C. I am sure that is right. Think of the depths into which Christ went, the depths of suffering, the depths of divine love that have come into expression.

W.D.McK. Yes, indeed. "The love of Jesus, what it is, none but His loved ones know". I believe the depths of God are in that.

G.R.C. So that we cannot write off righteousness as just an elementary subject. It enters into the very depths of God and the heights of glory. Depth and height come into it.

L.D.V. Is the power of the Spirit essential for practical righteousness? The righteous requirement of the law is fulfilled in those who walk in the power of the Spirit.

G.R.C. The flesh cannot do anything righteous. The mind of the flesh is at enmity with God; as in the flesh we cannot do a single righteous act. We are wholly dependent on the Spirit.

• We are wholly dependent upon God in Christ for our justification,

• and wholly dependent upon the Spirit for our practical walk and righteousness.

C.M.M. Would you include "whom he has justified" in Romans 8 in that? Would it have a practical bearing?

G.R.C. "Whom he has justified, these also he has glorified".

C.M.M. I was thinking of the "justified" too in the sense of one being set up practically in righteousness, on the line of justified in the power of the Spirit.

G.R.C. It would certainly bear on "justified by works", James 2: 21 and 24.

C.M.M. That is what I meant.

F.J.F. So you would have on the breastplate of righteousness as you moved about.

G.R.C. And righteousness is paying our way, not simply paying twenty shillings in the pound – that is part of it, of course – but we do not want to be spiritual paupers.

• The only way we can pay our way, the only divine currency, is love. The righteous requirement of the law is love.

• Love is the fulness of the law, it says. We love God with all our being, and we love our neighbour as ourselves.

• The Spirit brings into our souls the wealth of divine love, so that we have a very big banking account whereby we can pay our way.

• And if you cannot pay your way, you are a miserable man.

2 Timothy 2: 22 – Ecclesiastical Righteousness

C.M.M. Had you a word for us as to ecclesiastical righteousness?

G.R.C. In our day, we have to include ecclesiastical righteousness because of the state of Christendom. It is righteousness relative to the assembly.

• It is a matter of righteousness that we should withdraw from iniquity and separate from vessels to dishonour, purifying ourselves from them by separating from them, and that then we should follow righteousness.

• It would include the righteous requirement of the law in the practical matters of life,
  • but it also includes assembly righteousness as we may say, and the righteous requirements of the fellowship.

• Together we pursue righteousness, and the other things, but righteousness first. We are always pursuing righteousness with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

L.V. You referred to the work of righteousness and the effect of righteousness, but would the fruit of righteousness cover this matter of what is practical and ecclesiastical?

G.R.C. Very good. There is the fruit of righteousness, and that would, as you say, be seen in Romans 8 and 2 Timothy 2.

This chapter especially views the work of Christ in the way it affects God, and stresses the perfection of the One who did the work.

• There is the young bullock and the ram, and also a type of Christ in Aaron himself. It says in verse 12,
  • "he shall take the censer full of burning coals of fire from off the altar before Jehovah, and both his hands full of fragrant incense beaten small, and bring it inside the veil. And he shall put the incense upon the fire before Jehovah, that the cloud of the incense may cover the mercy-seat which is upon the testimony, that he die not".

• There is, therefore, a great stress on the perfection of the Lord Jesus. He has gone in a cloud of fragrant incense, the cloud of incense covering the mercy-seat which is upon the testimony (v. 13).

• Thus the cloud of incense met the cloud which is spoken of in verse 2 "for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy-seat".

• That is to say, God would appear between the cherubim. He is spoken of as the One who sits between the cherubim, and He would appear in relation to the cloud of fragrant incense.

• Thus there is the perfection of the Person of Christ in vv. 12-13, and then the efficacy of the blood in verse 14:
  • "And he shall take of the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle with his finger upon the front of the mercy-seat eastward; and before the mercy-seat shall he sprinkle of the blood seven times with his finger".

All this was primarily for the nostrils and for the eye of God, the cloud of fragrant incense filling the most holy place and the blood upon the mercy-seat and seven times before the mercy-seat.

• The odour of the fragrant incense was brought out in its fulness by His submission to the very sufferings of atonement which gave atoning efficacy to the blood.

• Christ was fragrant to God all through His life, but the fragrance was brought out in fulness and perfection in the intensity of the sufferings in the garden of Gethsemane and on the cross.

• And it is in the power of all that has come into expression in the intensity of suffering, that He has entered into the presence of God.

C. de K.F. So would you say, that what we had this morning in Romans chapter 3, "the shewing forth of his righteous-ness" as linking with this, would give us a very great impression of the glory which attached to Christ in sacrificing Himself ?

G.R.C. Indeed it would. Romans chapter 3, is connected with God's approach to man: God manifests His righteous-ness in approaching us with what we need, justification and the gift of the Spirit.

• But the work of Christ had in view not only God coming out to us, to meet us where we were, and to justify us and set us up here on earth in the power of the Spirit, but also our going in to God.

B.H.T. Hebrews gives our approach to God; but in Romans God sets Him forth as a mercy-seat?

G.R.C. God sets Him forth in testimony as a mercy-seat through faith in His blood.

B.H.T. That shews the profoundness of the gospel.

G.R.C. The whole matter is set out in the gospel. Christ Jesus, the glorified Man in the presence of God, is set forth a mercy-seat, through faith in His blood.

• But Romans, in respect of that, treats mainly of the way God has come out to man with what he needs down here; that is, justification and the gift of the Spirit.

• Hebrews brings in the other side, namely, that the gospel also sets man completely free to draw near to God.

B.H.T. It shews how wonderful the gospel is and what fulness there is in it.

G.R.C. What Paul calls new covenant ministry in 2 Cor. 3 is a ministry of righteousness and a ministry of the Spirit.

• The free gift of righteousness and the gift of the Holy Spirit are available to men, a ministration from the glory to fit men for the glory. This meets the need of man.

• But the other side is the need of the heart of God. God's love requires that He should have man in the greatest nearness to Himself.

F.J.F.

Hymn 12: 3, 1973.

G.R.C. Quite so. He has brought in a state of things to satisfy the longings of the heart of God, who would have men within the veil, with Christ; and who would dwell among men brought into such nearness to Himself.

E.S. So the Lord Jesus could tell the woman in John 4 the truth in a very simple way "for also the Father seeks such as his worshippers".

G.R.C. Quite so. And to worship God in the way He desires involves our understanding of what is before us now – our liberty of approach to God.

F.J.F. This is seen in Aaron and his sons?

G.R.C. Strictly it was never seen in the Old Testament. Aaron's sons could go into the holy place; that is a question of service, where they served. Aaron himself went in to the holy of holies once a year.

• But we have come to the true tabernacle which the Lord has pitched and not man, "For the Christ is not entered into holy places made with hand, figures of the true, but into heaven itself", Heb. 9: 24.

• Christ has gone in, our High Priest and our Forerunner, and we have liberty to go in. The holiest is not exactly a place of service, it is a place of immense privilege.

L.D.V. Would this answer to what we have in Romans 5? We have access, we stand in favour before God; it is changeless because Christ is there?

G.R.C. Yes. Access is touched on in Romans, chapter 5. "We have also access by faith into this favour", without giving us the character of the favour.

• It also says, we "boast in God, through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom now we have received the reconciliation", Rom. 5: 11.

• So there is a ground-work laid in Romans as to access, but it is developed in Hebrews and Ephesians.

C.M.M. Had you something more to say as to Aaron and his house?

G.R.C. Does it not apply to the saints of this dispensation?

C.M.M. Yes. I thought it would be the assembly, showing that side of Leviticus 16 which is so precious to us.

G.R.C. We have our appreciation of the other side of the day of atonement – the scapegoat – but the concern of the Spirit is that we should understand this aspect which is especially our own.

S.P.S. Why has this reference to Aaron and his house particular reference to our day?

G.R.C. Because we are the only family whose place is within the veil.

• It was not clearly manifested in the 16th of Leviticus, even in that which was a type. Aaron's house could not enter within the veil at that time;

• but when we come to Christianity we know that typically Aaron's house relates to those who form the assembly, and that our place is within the veil.

M.S.V. You pointed out that our going in is not exactly service. Would you help us that we might move in with liberty? What really takes place in the holiest?

G.R.C. I think contemplation, adoration, and divine communication.

• When in the immediate presence of God, all our spiritual faculties are engaged and absorbed with God and with Christ as before God.

M.S.V. God communicated to His servant Moses from off the mercy-seat, there were holy communications.

G.R.C. I think, as in the presence of God, our ears would be alert for communications.

• Moses went in to speak with God and God took the initiative. He spoke to Moses and then Moses spoke to Him.

• All our faculties are engaged, our ears are engaged – I am speaking spiritually now – our eyes are engaged,
  • because we are in the presence of Him who is the effulgence of God's glory and the expression of His substance.

• It is a wonderful thing to be in the immediate presence of the Man in whom God is shining out in radiant glory, and in whom "dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily".

• There is also the cloud of glory and the cloud of incense. If you think of all that we are in the presence of, in the holiest, you can understand that all our spiritual faculties will be engaged with what is presented to us.

• There is what engages our nostrils, spiritually. We are enveloped in a cloud of fragrant incense in which Christ has gone in – the fragrance of Christ as He is before God. Our eyes are also fully engaged and our ears are attentive.

R.S. Is that the great thought of worship, that all our faculties are fully engaged with God Himself?

G.R.C. I think so. So that worship in the sense of adoration, and prostration, is proper to the holiest.

R.S. Would you say more as to that being unique to the assembly?

G.R.C. No other family has a place within the veil. It would link with what Christ says in the gospel of John, "that where I am they also may be with me".

L.D.V. Do you link the cloud on the mercy-seat at the end of verse 2, with the fulness of the Godhead in Colossians?

G.R.C. I think it might. We have to see that both sides are presented to us in one Person.

• On the one hand – "in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" and thus God is shining forth in Him.

• On the other hand, Jesus is the One in whom is absolute perfection, as Man, before God. He has gone in to God in a cloud of fragrant incense, and with His own blood.

D.M.S. Would you care to say a word about the veil itself? We enter in through the veil, that is to say, His flesh.

G.R.C. It may be well in that connection to refer to Colossians as well as Hebrews.

• But before we come to that in Colossians, I think we should see what the work of atonement, called recon-ciliation in the New Testament, has effected for God.

• Hebrews is more what it has effected for us. But the main point in the work of reconciliation is what it would secure for God, that the longings of His heart should be satisfied.

• When reconciliation is referred to, the thought of "to Himself" is brought in:
  • "who has reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ", 2 Cor. 5: 18;

  • "being enemies, we have been reconciled to God through the death of his Son", Rom. 5: 10;

  • "to reconcile all things to itself", Col. 1: 20; "and you now has it reconciled".

• I think the primary thing is that this great work has been done to satisfy the heart of God.

• It has been done to meet our need, and Romans gives what particularly meets our need;
  • but God has gone far beyond our need. Through Christ, He has carried out a work to satisfy the needs and requirements of His heart.

• And Colossians is very touching in showing what has been effected for God, or rather as it puts it there, for the Fulness.

L.D.V. Do we not need to see that reconciliation has not only removed the man that was hateful, but has secured man in suitability for God's pleasure?

G.R.C. If you look at the type in Leviticus 16, the stress is not upon the removal of the man that was hateful. That is involved and is brought out at the end in verse 27 –

• "the bullock of the sin-offering, and the goat of the sin-offering whose blood was brought in to make atonement in the sanctuary, shall one carry forth outside the camp; and they shall burn with fire their skins, and their flesh, and their dung".

• There you get the unsparing judgment of God upon the man that was hateful to Him, but borne by Christ.

• But the chapter as a whole is stressing the preciousness of the One who has accomplished this sacrificial work – Aaron, the bullock, the ram, all types of Christ;
  • and then the cloud of fragrant incense in which Aaron went in.

• So you are left with an impression of how pleased God is with everything relative to Christ and what He has done –
  • what delight it has brought to Him that His presence should now be filled with the fragrant incense that has been brought out in fulness through the very sufferings of Christ in the work of atonement.

  • The fragrant incense which has resulted is filling God's presence.

• And then the blood – what it means to God to have the blood before Him. It is for His eye, according to this chapter, on the mercy-seat and before the mercy-seat.
  • So that as God looks out from the mercy-seat, from His standpoint, sin has been put away judicially. So He looks out with pleasure.

  • The blood is the evidence of a work completed which has dealt with what was offensive.

• But His presence is filled with what is precious. Reconciliation is thus a wonderful thing.

A.A.H. So that J.N.D. breaks out in song in his hymn

"Love that on death's dark vale
Its sweetest odours spread".

G.R.C. The Lord Jesus has gone in in the fragrance of those sweetest odours; and at the same time He has gone in by His own blood. What an outlook God has therefore!

W.E.G. The sprinkling of the blood is mentioned in Leviticus, and again in Hebrews, to show how precious that blood is.

G.R.C. And so in Colossians, it says

• "for in him all the fulness of the Godhead was pleased to dwell, and by him to reconcile all things to itself having made peace by the blood of his cross – by him, whether the things on the earth or the things in the heavens".

• The blood is viewed as having made peace for the Fulness.

• In Romans it is a question of peace for us, peace with God. But in Colossians it is peace for God, peace for the Fulness.

F.J.F. So that no disturbing element can ever arise in that scene of glory.

G.R.C. Quite so. And the wonderful thing is that, as God looks out even now upon His habitation here on earth in the Spirit, He looks out with pleasure in virtue of the blood;

• because the blood, as it were, covers and removes from His eye, judicially, all that is offensive in the saints.

• God looks out thus with pleasure upon the saints. He sees us all before Him in the fragrance and acceptance of Christ; and also as His workmanship, created anew in Christ Jesus.

N.C.J.C. Is there a connection between the fragrant incense and the holy anointing oil of fragrant drugs? He is fragrant to God in His going in and the assembly takes character from Him.

G.R.C. The holy anointing oil would be the fragrance that results from the Spirit giving character to the whole system. It is the Spirit of Christ marking the whole system;

• but the incense in Lev. 16 is the fragrance of Christ Himself, which fills the presence of God.

A.A.G. Could we have a word on this expression "the fulness" please?

G.R.C. "In him all the fulness was pleased to dwell, and by him to reconcile all things to itself". I believe the expression especially links with the gospel of John.

• That gospel shews in a particular way all the Fulness dwelling in the Person of the Son; and that is the gospel which alone refers to the blood of His cross.

L.F.J. I wondered if the cloud – Lev. 16: 2 – involves the mystery of the Person.

G.R.C. I think it may have some reference to Col. 2: 9.

L.F.J. Fitting in with the Fulness?

G.R.C. Yes. In Him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. As we come into the presence of God He is before us thus.

• In and through Him we know the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

• We are privileged to be occupied with the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit in an objective way, made known to us in and through the Son.

C.M.M. Would you say more about the meeting of the two clouds?

G.R.C. Does it not bring out the two sides of what is expressed in the person of Jesus?

• On the one hand, in His glorious Manhood, there is the full expression of God towards us, "in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily".

• On the other hand, there is the expression of perfect manhood towards God in Him.

C.M.M. I think that is very beautiful.

F.J.F. Psalm 102 says that "He weakened my strength in the way, he shortened my days. I said, My God, take me not away in the midst of my days".

• There must have been something very wonderful for the heart of God when He gave the answer to that glorious Person in saying, "Thy years are from generation to generation", and "But Thou art the Same".

G.R.C. And so the One who glorified God here in His sacrifice, and who has gone in to God in the fragrance of His Person and in the power of His blood, is the One in whom God is shining out upon us.

• We have the different items in the type, but all concentrate on the one glorious Person.

• God is shining forth now in the very One who made the sacrifice and has gone in in the power of His blood; "thou that sittest between the cherubim, shine forth", Ps. 80: 1.

• God is free now to shine forth in Him, and we are free to be in the presence of that shining, and to be at home in it.

W.E.G. So it is all for the pleasure of the Godhead; "to reconcile all things to itself".

G.R.C. We ought to look at the passage in Colossians to see things from the divine side.

• It says "in him all the fulness was pleased to dwell". I think we shall see that specially in the gospel of John.

• The Lord makes clear that He was in the Father and the Father in Him and that the Father who abode in Him did the works. John 14: 10.

• He also makes clear who He is in His own Person, "Before Abraham was, I am".

• And the gospel also makes clear that the Spirit descended and abode upon Him.

• So that all the Fulness is shown to be dwelling in Him and "by him to reconcile all things to itself".

So that the Lord says "It is finished". The primary idea is that it was a work finished for God.

• The gospel preachers rightly use it, because if the work was finished for God, it was finished for us.

• But we want to keep the thing in its setting to see the greatness of it, that the One in whom all the Fulness was pleased to dwell, could say "It is finished".

• The work was completed to the satisfaction of the Fulness, and the blood that flowed from His side was a witness to the work completed to the satisfaction of the Fulness: and so it says "having made peace by the blood of his cross".

• The blood has laid the basis for the reconciliation of all things.

• It says in Hebrews 9: 21, 22, that "the tabernacle too and all the vessels of service he sprinkled in like manner with blood". And "without blood-shedding there is no remission".
  • The whole system came under the sprinkling of the blood.

• That is indicated without any detail in Leviticus 16: 16 because it says "he shall make atonement for the sanctuary, to cleanse it" and then, further down, "and so shall he do for the tent of meeting", and finally for the altar in verse 18.

• So the whole system came under the sprinkling of the blood, and if we apply it to the universe, it is soon to be publicly carried into effect.

• The basis has been laid, peace has been made by the blood of His cross, and the time is near when all things will be publicly reconciled to the Fulness on that basis – "by him to reconcile all things to itself".

E.S. Why was the blood sprinkled once on the mercy-seat and seven times before the mercy-seat?

G.R.C. It may be that the seven times before it is to give us full confidence in our approach. At the same time it was before God also.

• But on the mercy-seat was specifically for the eye of God. It settled everything for God. Sin is put away judicially from His sight. He looks out now complacently, that matter being settled.

• The seven times before the mercy-seat may also link with His looking out, but I also think it has a bearing on our going in.

D.M.S. There was no cross like this and no blood like this.

G.R.C. It is good to see the extensive scope of the work from the standpoint of the Fulness – to reconcile all things – thrones, lordships, principalities, and authorities.

• All things were created by Christ and for Christ, but all have come under the taint of sin.

• Christ is soon to take them up and fill them all. They were created for Him. Soon every seat of authority in the universe will be occupied either by Christ personally or by those whom He has delegated.
  • He will fill all things, as Head of all principality and authority.

• But before He can take them up publicly and fill them for God, He must reconcile them.
  • And He has laid the basis in the blood of His cross for the reconciliation of all things, so that the stain of sin might be removed from before God's eye in the whole universe.

• Anticipatively it is so now, no doubt, in the eye of God, but the reconciliation of all things is soon to be publicly manifested.

• So Colossians gives the reconciliation of all things and Ephesians the filling of all things. One must precede the other.

• And it is the same blessed Person who does it. He created all things. He reconciles all things and He fills all things. How glorious Jesus is!

C.M.M. Why is the word “atonement” so prominent in the Old Testament, “reconciliation” in the New?

G.R.C. The Old Testament could not go so far as to use the word reconciliation. It is a word involving that what is offensive is removed judicially and that God is complacent. What would you say?

C.M.M. I think reconciliation is very great; as though it were not, so to speak, possible for the Spirit of God to bring it forward until we come to the fulness of the New Testament and the greatness of the One who had brought in this favour.

G.R.C. So that atonement implies the idea of covering, that sin is put out of God's sight, judicially; but reconciliation is a positive thing; God has before Him now what is for His pleasure.

C.M.M. Would you give us a word as to the distinction between justification and reconciliation? Would both be objective?

G.R.C. Both are objective. We are justified by faith and then through our Lord Jesus Christ we receive the reconciliation. It is received in receiving the gospel.

• Luke 15 is an example, is it not, as to the way we receive it? The father himself covered the whole distance, and that is what God has done.
  • He has removed the distance, in the death of Christ, and as soon as there is repentance, He is by the side of the repentant one, falling on his neck and covering him with kisses.

  • So that the son received the reconciliation. He received it where he was.

• That is the Romans view of reconciliation. We receive it where we are, as it were. But it is in view of our moving in, and, of course, the repentant one did move in, and he was in the house for the father's pleasure.

• It does not say anything about his feelings. The point there is God's own joy. And that is the point in reconciliation.
  • It is that aspect of the work of Christ whereby God is free now to satisfy the longings of His heart.

W.E.G. So, through reconciliation, God has moved from His side and everything is clear.

G.R.C. Yes. We have spoken of the reconciliation of all things. Then it says

• "And you, who once were alienated and enemies in mind by wicked works, yet now has it reconciled in the body of his flesh through death".

• Now this is what we were referring to as Aaron's house. This refers to the saints of this dispensation;
  • "yet now has it reconciled in the body of his flesh through death; to present you holy and unblamable and irreproachable before it".

• It is the Fulness acting for Its own satisfaction, to present us, the most privileged of all families, holy and unblamable and irreproachable before it.

• And the only condition is that we "abide in the faith founded and firm, and not moved away from the hope of the glad tidings". It shows what a position the gospel puts us in, rightly received and held.

J.W.B. Would you say what the bearing is of new creation in 2 Corinthians 5? New creation is brought in first – "So if anyone be in Christ, there is a new creation", and then "all things are of the God who has reconciled us to himself".

• Is what is brought into reconciliation new creation? But here the persons are emphasized in Colossians.

G.R.C. I think I would put it the other way round, that those whom God has reconciled to Himself are the subjects of His work in new creation.

• Reconciliation is not the result of new creation. It is the result of the work of Christ and the perfection of fragrance of the One who did the work.

F.J.F. So we do not work up to it. We receive it.

G.R.C. Yes. Years ago some thought that reconciliation depended on new creation. The more the new creation work had gone on in us, the more we were reconciled.

• It would be well for everyone to read the book where that was corrected.

• The reading is called "Reconciliation and New Creation", J.T., 1922 [New Series, 18:124-178].

• It was made perfectly clear from every scripture that deals with it, that reconciliation is through the death of Christ. It flows from the value of the Person and work of Christ, and is received by us through faith.

• God works in new creation, to fit us for the place which is ours by faith in virtue of the Person and work of Christ.

L.D.V. When it says in Colossians, "to present you holy and unblamable and irreproachable before it", does that not show that through the work of Christ we are to be presented holy and unblamable and irreproachable before the presence of the Fulness?

G.R.C. So that this passage stresses the pleasure of the Fulness, what the Fulness has done for Itself.

• It has reconciled us "in the body of his flesh through death"; to present us holy and unblamable and irreproachable before It.

• Finality is in mind, of course, but the only condition is that we abide in the faith, founded and firm and not moved away from the hope of the gospel;
  • showing that our position of reconciliation stands related to the value of the Person and work of Christ, and our faith in it, and the Fulness acting for Itself.

  • Think of the joy of the Fulness in presenting us thus.

• Bring that into the present and think of the joy that it means to God when we enter the holiest. This looks on to completion, but think of what it means now.

• Think of what we are depriving God of if we do not come before Him in the way that He has provided.

M.S.V. I was thinking of the cloud of incense as we enter the holiest. What dignity it gives to the service of God and to those that are there! Would that be the thought, that we are distinguished in this way?

G.R.C. For the service of God?

M.S.V. Quite so. Not that I have in mind the service of God in the holiest but there is a distinctiveness about the persons that are there.

G.R.C. Well, exactly. None can serve God like those whose place is within the veil. But we tend sometimes to spoil things by bringing in our service too soon.

• In what we are occupied with now, it is a question of Christ and His service.

• It is through Christ's service that we have boldness to enter the holiest. It is not our service that takes us there.

W.E.G. When you are there you simply worship and adore. There are no requests to be made, you simply bow and adore and worship, and God is rejoicing.

G.R.C. So that Colossians brings in the divine side, "to present you holy and unblamable and irreproachable before it ", but Hebrews 10 is our side –

• "Having, therefore, brethren, boldness for enter-ing into the holy of holies by the blood of Jesus, the new and living way which he has dedicated for us through the veil, that is, his flesh, and having a great priest over the house of God, let us approach with a true heart, in full assurance of faith, sprinkled as to our hearts from a wicked conscience, and washed as to our body with pure water".

• Now we need to link the veil in this passage with the body of His flesh in Colossians. We are reconciled in the body of His flesh through death.

• And according to the 10th of Hebrews, the new and living way has been dedicated by Him for us, through the veil; that is, His flesh. You were asking about that?

D.M.S. That is, He has not given up His glorious humanity. It is there as making a way for the saints to enter into the presence of God.

G.R.C. He has not given up His glorious humanity, but He is now in a new condition.

• We are reconciled in the body of His flesh through death. Death has ended that condition.

• Hebrews speaks of the days of His flesh. They are over forever; "even if we have known Christ according to flesh, yet now we know him thus no longer".

• And it is very touching to think that Christ has been here in order to effect reconciliation, that we might be "reconciled in the body of his flesh through death".

• And so the new and living way is through the veil, that is, His flesh. It involves His death.

F.J.F. Would you say that inside the veil we contemplate the Glory of God?

G.R.C. I do not think there is any veil in connection with Christ's present condition.

• There was the veil, that is His flesh. As JND says, "We see the Godhead glory shine through the human veil".

• He still retains humanity, He is glorified; but His glorified condition is no veil, as I understand it.

• His condition here in humiliation was a veil. But that condition has been ended in death.

• And now "in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily", and that expression conveys to me that His present bodily condition is no veil at all.

• Thus, as appropriating His death and going in by the new and living way which He has dedicated, we can, in the power of the Spirit, be in His presence now without a veil on His face and without a veil on our hearts.

• According to 2 Corinthians 3, there was a veil on Moses’ face. But now there is no veil at all, neither on the face of Jesus, nor on the heart of a repentant man who truly believes the gospel.

• As entering the holiest, he is in the presence of the outshining of the effulgence of God’s glory without a veil – in a glorious Man.

• And that direct view of Christ, as I understand it, no family but ourselves will ever have. I do not think any other family will be capable of looking, face to face, on the radiant glory of God in Jesus.

• I believe the assembly is the only family capable of doing it. Other families will get their light through us.

C.M.P. What is the difference between the condition in which the Lord was here and that in which He is now, and the order of His Manhood?

G.R.C. He is ever "the second man, out of heaven' and according to John 3 "the Son of man who is in heaven.

• There is no change in the moral character of His Manhood. Only there is a change of condition. "The days of His flesh" are over.

C.M.P. I think in the minds of some, the Lord Jesus only became a man of a new order after His resurrection, but that is not the truth.

• He was always a man of a new order. His condition alone changed. Is that right?

G.R.C. It would be wrong to say that the Lord Jesus became a new order of man in resurrection.

• There was a change of condition, but His Manhood was ever perfect and spotless.

• And so it says "wherefore the holy thing also which shall be born shall be called Son of God".

• The change is in the condition but it is the same Jesus.

C.M.M. In the actual service, are we privileged to look out upon the greatness of the universe of many families, the result of reconciliation? Does it enhance the greatness of our position to take account of every family?

G.R.C. Indeed it does. In the holiest we are in the centre of the system; but the first things that engage us, and absorb our attention, are the outshining of God in Christ; and the perfect manhood of Jesus.

• But then it is also our privilege to look out with God. We realize what the blood on the mercy-seat means to Him; and what it means to Him to take account of the whole system as coming under the power of the blood.

• It says that the tabernacle and all the vessels of service were sprinkled with blood. Heb. 9: 21.

• It is a most exhilarating thing to look out with God from the centre of the system and to see things as He sees them, because the blood has removed judicially, from under His eyes, all that is offensive.

• He is not occupied with it. He is occupied with a scene that is altogether pleasurable to Himself.

G.R.C. That is why we are reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, and why it says "through the veil, that is, His flesh".

• We go in by way of death. Man after the flesh has been ended in death, judicially, before God. That is the basis of our approach.

• Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. There is no change in Him.

G.R.C. There it is looking on the glory; but then we look out, we get God's outlook on things;

• and I do not think we can serve God properly until we get His outlook on everything.

F.J.F. Would that be the same as in Ephesians 3, where it says "the breadth and length and depth and height"? You are looking out there.

G.R.C. Yes. Looking out in all four dimensions.

M.S.V. As to washing, it says "sprinkled as to our hearts from a wicked conscience, and washed as to our body with pure water". When does this take place?

G.R.C. A soul who tru1y receives the Gospel is regarded as washed all over; and that is the meaning of the word in this passage.

• The Lord says, "He that is washed all over needs not to wash save his feet".

• I think what is in mind here is that Christ, and His work and service, have made the way clear for us to go into the holiest provided we have a true heart and full assurance of faith. That is the condition on our side.

• Everyone who is truly in the faith of the gospel has a true heart and full assurance of faith. Full assurance of faith means unbounded confidence in Christ and His completed work.

• Such, therefore, have boldness. We dishonour Christ if we have not boldness to enter the holiest.

• The washing of hands and feet at the laver would mean that we maintain practical cleanness of act and walk.

• But the point is here the initial washing of the priestly family. They were washed all over on the day they were consecrated.

L.D.V. Would you help us as to the great priest over the house of God?

G.R.C. The great priest over the house of God is a comfort to our hearts. He is there to sustain us. As we enter the holiest we have two things.

• We have boldness on the one hand, and we have a great Priest over the house of God on the other. He is there supporting us, having all the saints on His heart and on His shoulders.

• We need His help and sustainment. His priesthood is an official glory, a glory given to Him, and we delight in it.

• But, as in the gain of His priesthood, we become occupied, not with a glory given, but with what He is. He is the effulgence of God's glory. That is what He is in Himself.

• Priesthood is an office which He fills to support us. These verses do not tell us what we are occupied with in the holiest; they shew us how equipped we are to enter.

W.G. Could you help us as to the individual's approach to the holiest?

G.R.C. That is what we are dealing with now. That is what Hebrews specially has in mind. It goes on afterwards to speak of "not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together".

• We should be continually resorting to the holiest. It should be the very home of our souls.

W.G. It is always open, is it not, to any individual?

G.R.C. The way is open at all times. And if we understood the privilege, we shall want to be there at every opportunity.

F.J.F. Conscious of suitability? "Not a cloud above, not a spot within".

G.R.C. That is right. How wonderful to be with God, and to be occupied with God and Christ before God:

• and then, as thus in the centre of the system, to look out with God and to get His viewpoint of everything.