My Brethren - Ministry - G.R Cowell

READING 3

Ordering of the Camp ( 3 )
Sins of Inadvertence
Numbers 15: 1-5, 22-41
Memorials 8: 51-73

READING 3
Ordering of the Camp ( 3 ) Sins of Inadvertence Numbers 15: 1-5, 22-41 Memorials 8: 51-73

G.R.C. It is well to keep in mind the beauty of the first ten chapters of this book, which really are a section in themselves –

God having taken up His residence in the habitation prepared for Him in Exodus,

and then having exercised His total rights in love over the people, relative to Himself and His habitation.

The whole nation came under regulation and were conscripted for military service.

And then there were the appointments; the Levites appointed over the tabernacle and over all its vessels – the holy charge committed to them – and

the priests appointed to their high office; the word appointed being used in both cases. Aaron and his sons were to attend on their priest’s office.

Chapters 1-4 give the divine mind as to God’s total rights in sovereignly placing us where He will relative to His testimony,

and appointing us as He will in our levitical capacities – and appointing us all to the priesthood.

These are very great matters and demand our time and attention. Other matters being subsidiary to these; He would order our circumstances, and will take care of them. It is for us to let Him decide on those.

We are to be concerned with what is due to Him and His habitation, that He should have circumstances suited to Himself. That is really the good and perfect and acceptable will of God.

In chapter 9 the passover comes in as the basis for God’s complete claims over our affections.

We have been bought with a price, and how great the cost has been; and now God counts on the affections of His firstborn, whom He has secured at such a cost, to carry out all that He had commanded.
Then there were those who were unclean and could not partake of the Passover in the first month, persons marked by uprightness in confessing their condition, and with longings to be right and to have their part in Jehovah’s offering.
We can be thankful for many who, in recent times, have been marked by uprightness of that kind in leaving unclean associations.
And these chapters lead up to the first journey in marching order – the glory and beauty of movement according to the due order as set out earlier.
Those who had cleared themselves in chapter 9 would therefore in no way mar or hinder that movement; and that should be a lever with all of us, that we would do nothing to mar or hinder such movement.
It is God Himself moving, and we want to be ready for the next movement; we want it to be unsullied – to get the full light of the glory of the next movement. He says in Deuteronomy
- “ye have gone round this mountain long enough”, Deuteronomy 2: 3;
- and in chapter 1: 6, “ye have staid long enough in this mountain”.
God looks to us that matters should be finalised so that we are ready for movement in the glory and greatness of it as depicted in Psalm 68: 7,
- “O God; when thou wentest before thy people when thou didst march through the wilderness”,
- and where it speaks of “the goings of my God, my King, in the sanctuary”, Psalm 68: 24.
There is not only a glory about the divine encampments and the service that goes in them, but a glory about the divine movements; and the one in chapter 10 is a glorious movement.

There was a certain failure with Moses as to wanting Hobab to go before them and be eyes to them,

but the ark goes before them.

No doubt Moses was thinking of his responsibility for the ark, but the ark took responsibility for the whole situation. So chapter 10 is most attractive.
But then we have the dark background of chapters 11, 12, 13 and 14.
- In chapter 11 the people murmered and lusted, and Moses himself failed,
- in chapter 12 Aaron and Miriam failed;
- and chapters 13 and 14 depict the great failure – the people refusing the heavenly inheritance. It was the great and outstanding failure,
  - proving that man in the flesh, our old man, has no taste for what is heavenly, what in God’s mind is the best.
All that is a dark background; failure on the part of the three leaders, failure with the people, so that it was proved that that generation could not go in.
The new generation only would go in. The old man can have no place in the inheritance.
But then chapter 15 shows that whatever may come in on our side, God is going on.
In all these severe lessons of the wilderness, some are going to get the benefit; there are some, such as Caleb and Joshua, and those represented in the new generation, who will get the benefit.
And God Himself is going on; so it says,
- “When ye come into the land of your dwellings”.
And furthermore, God uses the very background, the dark background, to bring out fresh thoughts that are in His mind, which those who judge the elements that have come to light would value;
- the very experiences gone through would prepare them to take in thoughts which they had not had before as to these offerings.
They were to be accompanied by an oblation and a drink offering, and always in right proportion.
How those who had judged what had intervened would value the oblation in a way that they never had before, the Man of God’s pleasure, and what deep feelings would be in them, as represented in the drink offering.

But then, what was mainly in mind in this chapter begins at verse 22, as bearing on current exercises –

God providing in a new way for sins of inadvertance.

He brings in what is additional to what was given in Leviticus 4, and the scope is very wide:
- “if ye sin inadvertantly, and do not all these commandments, which Jehovah hath spoken unto Moses, all that Jehovah has commanded you through Moses, from the day that Jehovah gave commandment, and henceforward throughout your generations”.
So that this covers everything, both up to that time and henceforward.

Ques. Do you think that the glory in chapter 10 provides a kind of divine standard by which every subsequent defection must be judged?

There is a normality and a glory about chapter 10, is there not? The mount of Jehovah, and the cloud not only upon the tabernacle but over them – in verse 34 –
as though the totality of the claims of God are seen and answered to, and subsequent defections judged in the light of that.

G.R.C. That is very good.

“The cloud of Jehovah was over them”.

They were so identified with the tabernacle I suppose. And as you say there was in that chapter the recognition of the totality of God’s claims, all was in order.

Ques. Why is it that such a glorious movement should be so immediately followed by these serious murmurings in rebellion?

G.R.C. Does it not show the incorrigibility of the flesh?

Rem. I was wondering if the movement of the testimony and all that it implies brings it out.

G.R.C. You mean that the flesh resents movement, it does not want to be disturbed.

Ques. And would there be great encouragement in the recognition that God never gives up His thought for His people? You remarked as to the verse:

“when ye come into the land of your dwellings”.

There is no question with God but that His people will come into the land, is there?

G.R.C. No, that is what is so encouraging. God never gives up. He is going forward and He had resources to meet every situation, and He brings them out as required,

so that all those in whom He was working, all who would be linked with a new generation typically, would get benefit.

Thus these very sad occurrences bring out on the one side what the flesh is.
We recognised, doctrinally, at the Red Sea that our old man was crucified with Him; but we learn that experimentally in the wilderness the necessity for that.
Now the old man does not at any point appreciate anything that is of God; the mind of the flesh is at enmity with God all along the line.
But then while we have to learn that humbling side, it is a wonderful thing to learn what resources God has, and that He is going through in spite of everything.

Ques. Does the fact that He brings forward this teaching at this juncture – which really applies to the land – indicate that the new generation was coming to light? God could address them.

G.R.C. I think so. “When ye come into the land of your dwellings”.

We have spoken of God dwelling, but He was leading them to the land of their dwellings, and it was a land that they had despised in the previous chapter.

Ques. Is there an assertion of God’s glory in verse 10 of the previous chapter? In spite of their failure, God is asserting His rights as to His unchangeable glory,

“the glory of Jehovah appeared in the tent of meeting to all the children of Israel”.

G.R.C. That is good.

Ques. Does Paul bring us to this point in chapter 10 of 1 Corinthians? He goes over these sorrowful matters;

but he brings us in principle to the new generation, the assembly, and brings forward his ministry – the whole outline, you may say, of the Pauline ministry, and every provision made in that setting.

G.R.C. That is very good. And so in verse 6 of that chapter he says

“these things happened to them as types of us”.

So what benefit we can get from these passages!

Ques. Will you say a word as to the thought of verse 2,

“When ye come into the land of your dwellings, which I have given to you”,
and verse 18: “When ye come into the land whither I will bring you”.

Is that God carrying His thoughts through?

G.R.C. I think so. On the one hand, “When ye come into the land of your dwellings”;

but on the other hand, if we get there from the divine side, it is God who has brought us there.

None but God could bring us in. It says originally that He would bring them out and He would bring them in.
But then there is our side of it, “When ye come”; that is our side of it. And Joshua and Caleb are the link of continuity as linking on with the new generation.

Ques. Is there any link in what you have said with Matthew’s gospel?

I was thinking of the refusal of the Lord’s ministry and how He uses that dark background to develop new thoughts.
And then in verse 31 of chapter 14 it says
- “But your little ones, of whom ye said they should be a prey”.
I was thinking of “your little ones”, and how the Lord makes much of the little ones in Matthew’s gospel in view of the assembly.

G.R.C. You are thinking of what the Lord says in chapter 11, these things hidden from the wise and prudent but revealed to babes, and then, later, the children in the temple.

Rem. Yes, and in Matthew 18 He sets a child in the midst.

G.R.C. I think we ought to move on to verse 22, and consider this section in its implications, the Spirit of God helping us, the grace that marks the section up to verse 29 –

but with the particular way the burnt offering is brought in with its oblation and with its drink offering.

It is not mentioned in Leviticus 4; this is something God brings in at this juncture.
But in the case of a sin of inadvertance, the first thing the whole assembly were to offer was a young bullock for a burnt offering, for a sweet odour to Jehovah; and its oblation, and its drink offering.
So that what comes earlier in the chapter is immediately applied here, even in the case of sorrow like this, where sins of inadvertance had come to light;
- yet they are to be taken up in the light of the burnt offering and its oblation and its drink offering; and then the sin offering.
Then it comes down to the individual soul in verse 27. Afterwards, in verse 30,
- “the soul that doeth aught with a high hand”.
I think the contrast between verses 22 and 23, and verses 30 and 31, have to be noted, “the soul that doeth aught with a high hand”.

Ques. Is it very gracious of God to regard matters among us, at least in the first place, as sins of inadvertance, although we ought to have known better?

G.R.C. Is that not a principle in the ways of God in His grace? The Lord Jesus on the cross said,

“Father forgive them for they know not what they do”.

And then Peter in Acts,
- “I know that ye did it in ignorance, as also your rulers”.

Ques. Would it be right to say that sins of inadvertance are not exactly sins of ignorance, but rather sins of in-alertness as to the facts and the situation?

G.R.C. I think that may be so. Peter uses the word ignorance,

“I know that ye did it in ignorance, as also your rulers”, Acts 3: 17,

and you get the idea attached to the Gentiles,
- “the times of ignorance God winked at”, Acts 17: 30.

Ques. But does not the thought of ignorance indicate rather the result of not being spiritually awake and alert?

G.R.C. I think that would be so, and that is the humbling side of it.

Ques. Would you say why in Leviticus 4 the sin of inadvertance is met with the sin offering, whereas here the burnt offering is brought forward?

G.R.C. The sin offering is also here in

“one buck of the goats for a sin offering”,

but it is preceded by the young bullock for a burnt offering and its oblation, and its drink offering according to the ordinance.
I wondered if it is a wonderful provision of divine grace for the period after the great failures came in of chapters 11, 12, 13 and 14.
The great failures had come in, and sentence had been passed on the old generation; now there is this provision with a view to the new generation, going into the land and getting through,
- as though God would assure us, in facing the humbling matter of sins of inadvertance, that nothing that happens in that way affects the acceptance of the whole assembly before Him.
The whole assembly stands before God – I am referring now to the assembly from the divine standpoint – and subsists in its acceptance before God on the ground of the burnt offering.
And as we think of that, with the background of the sins of inadvertance in our minds, it would draw out from us a very real appreciation of the oblation.
The Man of whom the malefactor said,
- “This man has done nothing amiss”,
the perfection of Christ; and then
- “with its drink offering”,
that is, deep feelings from the very depths of our being would be promoted in appreciation of the way God has come out in Christ.

Rem. That would lead to the estimation of the sin being increased in our sight rather than any tendency to decrease it.

G.R.C. Yes. With that background of deep feeling, then the offering of the buck of the goats for a sin offering, what deep feeling there would be in that!

Ques. Would God delight to engage our hearts with Christ?

The danger is of being diverted from God’s main line, that He ever has Christ before Him,

and would He have Christ maintained before Him in this worshipful spirit, the One in Whom there is perfection?

G.R.C. That is just so. So that really the matter is taken up in the spirit of worship, worshipping God in the appreciation of Christ, and

then how deep will be the appreciation of the sin offering.

Ques. And would that fortify against the possible recurrence of inadvertance ?

G.R.C. I think so. We should be alert and sensitive.

Ques. Do you think it is important that it is spoken of as a sin – “sin inadvertantly”?

When it says, in verse 30, “doeth aught with a high hand”, the sin is obvious, so to speak;

but when it is inadvertant, sometimes we may overlook the fact that it is sin.

G.R.C. Yes, and we must not do that. We must recognise that it is sin,

otherwise we shall not appreciate in the way that we should do, either the burnt offering or the sin offering.

We shall not come to a right estimate of either.

Ques. Will you say something as to the absence of the sin offering in David’s sin?

When he numbered the people he offered the burnt offering, and he offered peace offerings, and God answered him by fire.

G.R.C. I could not quite say. You may be able to help us.

Rem. In principle did not David know God well enough to approach Him in that way without formally bringing in the matter of the sin offering?

G.R.C. Do you think Psalm 51 shows in a way that David was beyond his dispensation, that he knew what God required?

“The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart O God, thou wilt not despise”, verse 17.

It was the reality of the sin offering he brought, not the formality of it, one would have thought. And the last verse, verse 19, the sacrifices of righteousness.
But then we ought to notice that in verse 22 of Numbers 15, it says,
- “if ye sin inadvertantly and do not all these commandments which Jehovah has spoken unto Moses”.
That is, an inadvertant sin is regarded in that way; the commandment was there, and you have not done it; you have overlooked it, it may be, or have not been alert enough to it,
but when it comes to verse 30 it is different language altogether.
- “The soul that doeth aught with a high hand whether born in the land or a stranger, he reproacheth Jehovah; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people for he hath despised the word of Jehovah”.
Now this is the charge against him –
- “he hath despised the word of Jehovah, and hath broken his commandment”.
It is one thing, through inadvertance, not to do the commandment; it is another thing to despise the word of Jehovah and break the commandment.

Ques. I would like to ask as to verses 22 and 23. Do you think it suggests the protracted period of ministry,

what we have received through Paul, and what has been maintained in the day of recovery, so that we should follow up the ministry?

Would Paul have had to charge the Corinthians, some of them being ignorant of God if they had followed up his ministry?
Does not the ignorance, that has made way for these sins of inadvertance, become a matter of not following up the truth, the ministry?

G.R.C. I think these comprehensive statements must include that, because it is from the day that Jehovah gave commandment and henceforward throughout your generations. That would be after Moses had gone.

So after Paul had gone, in that sense, there are still directions, which would not be contrary to Paul of course, but an amplification and as bearing on our day, I suppose.

Ques. Do we need great spiritual discernment as to whether the sin is inadvertant, or whether the desires are wrong and we are despising; this strong word that is used – despising the word of Jehovah – that is will entering into it?

G.R.C. I think so. We have often thought of the skilful way Paul approaches the Corinthians, and we are to imitate him in our handling of one another.

Individually we are each called upon to imitate Paul in his complete separation to God;
- but then, in handling our brethren who may not be clear on these matters, we have also to take our cue from Paul.
He brought in a wealth of ministry to the Corinthians, a wealth of appeal and grace. But he had no thought of things drifting indefinitely; that was never in his mind.
The very fact that fulness of grace is brought to bear upon persons makes judgment inevitable if it is refused.
If grace is refused there is no remedy, God has nothing more to say to men if grace is refused.
So that you can see the wisdom of Paul’s way. He brings the ministry of glory and grace to bear on the Corinthians, and waits then in priestly grace.
He waits, but with no thought of waiting indefinitely, for he says,
- “having in readiness to avenge all disobedience when your obedience shall have been fulfilled”, 2 Corinthians 10: 6.
There was no other thought in his mind but that matters should be finalised at the right time.

Ques. Is there not a very solemn word in Hebrews 10: 26,

“for where we sin wilfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains any sacrifice for sin”.

Would that touch on the matter of the soul that doeth aught with a high hand?

G.R.C. I think it does. In its fulness, sinning with a high hand is apostasy; and Hebrews warns us against the principle of apostasy.

The principle of it can work with us; as it says, a wicked heart of unbelief in turning away from the living God.
Not that a real Christian would ever go the whole way, and be lost eternally; but he can be lost to the testimony here.
So that while we have to be careful in our application of verse 30, yet the principle of it applies.

Rem. These things happened as types of us that we should not be lusters and so on. Is that the great gain in these warnings if we take them to heart?

G.R.C. 1 Corinthians 10 is most important in this connection; they are types of us, as you say, that we might not go that way.

Ques. Is the extremity of the matter brought forward in 1 Samuel 15, verse 23, the word of Samuel to Saul,

“For rebellion is as the sin of divination, and self will is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of Jehovah, He also hath rejected thee from being king”?

G.R.C. That bears on it very much, and so, as we are saying, Paul had no thoughts of things drifting indefinitely, there was no such thought in his mind;

things were to be finalised, but at the right time, in his own priestly judgment and estimation.
- “When”, he says, “your obedience shall have been fulfilled”.
So I take it it means for us that each local company has to take matters up from that angle, as to timing.

Ques. Are you carrying forward into this reading what you said in the first,

that there are certain matters that are encumbent upon us as having the light of God dwelling among His people.

Is the immediate dealing with sin one of those matters, when it comes to light, as to whether it is inadvertant or with a high hand?

G.R.C. Quite so. In either case the sin must be dealt with; and that raises a question as to how far we have carried out verses 24 and 25.

How far have we carried this on our spirits before God, the whole assembly being involved in it.
Then there is the individual who is particularly involved as in verses 27 and 29.

Rem. In taking up these matters are there two things to be borne in mind, first of all the sin, and then the person, as to what he is at the time.

We may sin, may we not, and come this way, and have our forgiveness.
But when it becomes an assembly issue it is a question of what the person is, is it not?
And if we are dealing with persons in these matters we have to find out what their judgment is as to them, and help them clear themselves, do we not?

G.R.C. That is right; that is what Paul was seeking to do; he was seeking to help the Corinthians to come to his own judgment of matters.

Ques. But may there not be some advantage in bringing these matters forward rather quicker than we have done,

so that the light of the assembly bears on the matter earlier, and the person concerned sees what he is?

G.R.C. Yes I think we have been helped in that matter. Bringing it into the care meeting has greatly helped, and brethren in many cases, have cleared themselves.

Ques. I would like to ask why the tent of meeting is not apparently mentioned between verses 22 and 31, whereas I notice that in the special cases in the dark period of chapters 11, 12, 13 and 14, it has a very distinctive part in it?

G.R.C. I would say these directions have in view not only the wilderness but the land, and that may be why there is no specific mention of the tent of meeting.

It might relate to the house that Solomon built, but it would stand related to God’s dwelling in either case.
- This goes “hence forward throughout your generations”.

Ques. Does what Paul says to Timothy bear on all that we have been saying? He says

“Take heed to thyself”

which, significantly enough, comes in the first epistle to Timothy.

G.R.C. That is the first and foremost thing. He says a similar thing to the elders of Ephesus,

“Take heed to yourselves”; that is the first thing.

I am not capable of taking up anything with anyone else if I have not taken heed to myself.

Ques. Do you think that is the reason why the oblation and the drink offering come in in this connection?

We would be more able to deal with these things in others if we knew more of the oblation and the drink offering in regard of ourselves?

G.R.C. I am sure of that. I think that the effect of the sweet odour of the burnt offering and then the appreciation of the oblation, and the deep feelings of the drink offering would affect the whole manner in which we take things up.

We would bring in God’s own outlook and feelings into the matter, and thus take things up in the assurance that the assembly’s place before God is not affected by these defections, that the acceptance in which we stand is unchangeable.

Ques. Is that why we get the one young bullock for a burnt offering, and so on, in connection with the assembly; but when we come to one soul in verse 27 we have just the she goat for a sin offering?

G.R.C. Quite so. It is relative to the general position that the burnt offering stands.

The assembly, according to God’s own thoughts, is before Him on this immutable basis;
- and what a comfort it is to our souls, and what deep feelings it would bring about in us as to what follows – the sin offering!
And then, as to the individual soul, he brings his sin offering – a she goat – which, I suppose suggests the subjective side of things, that he has gone into things deeply.
The individual sin offering, as we know from Leviticus, was fed upon by the priests.
- The sin offering for the assembly was burnt outside the camp,
but the individual sin offering became food for the priests; and I believe that is an important matter, that we should learn to feed not on the sin, but upon the sin offering.

Ques. Is it important to see that these matters are completed:

“It shall be forgiven”

is just as much a completion of the matter of the sin of inadvertance as the soul being cut off in verse 31, as to the matter of a high hand?

G.R.C. The idea here is that things are finalised one way or the other. It is very emphatic,

“it shall be forgiven them” in verse 25,
“and it shall be forgiven him” in verse 28.

But then in verses 30 and 31 things are finalised on the other line.
And I believe it is an important matter that localities should have priestly discernment as to when,
- as Paul says, “having in readiness to avenge all disobedience when your obedience shall have been fulfilled”, 2 Corinthians 10: 6.
Is that right?

Rem. Yes, I was thinking particularly of the earlier matter, that there is a danger with us when things have been settled in assembly, matters have been forgiven, we may still in our minds think of them as open.

G.R.C. There is always the tendency to feed on the sin instead of the sin offering.

Rem. That cannot be underlined too much, we need that emphatically in our hearts, that when God finalises a thing, it is finalised.

Ques. And do we not have the same kind of things in the burnt offering? It says in Leviticus 7: 8,

“as to the priest that presenteth any man’s burnt offering, the skin of the burnt-offering which he hath presented shall be the priest’s for himself”.

Would he not have ever before him that a matter has been finalised, acceptance has been reached, and there is the evidence in it in the skin?

G.R.C. Very interesting.

Ques. Would the word in 2 Corinthians 2: 10 be important in regard of what you are saying?

“To whom ye forgive anything, I also, for I also, what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, it is for your sakes in the person of Christ”.

There is nothing hanging on in our minds, is there, if a thing has been forgiven?

G.R.C. And it suggests confidence between the apostle and the local company.

Ques. Is it in mind that when matters are settled finally and righteously that there is something positive to be carried forward to enrich the service of God? Even Psalm 51 is to the chief musician.

G.R.C. Yes, and that psalm ends with something very positive, the whole burnt offerings on God’s altar.

Ques. Would we learn from the Lord Himself, in Luke 4, the way He rids the man of the demon; it says

“the demon, having thrown him down in the midst, came out from him without doing him any injury”, verse 35.

I was wondering about the thought “without doing him any injury”, if perhaps by extension we could serve one another in that way, and thus the man is retained.

G.R.C. That is what we would seek to do; that is the aim. Paul says

“Receive us: we have injured no one”, 2 Corinthians 7: 2.

That is what he says to them; nothing he had written to them was in the way of injury – showing how we need to avoid any natural feelings coming into the matter.
And I think that is what may be involved in the man gathering sticks on the sabbath – the idea of natural heat coming into things.

Ques. Before you go on to that, could you just say another word about verse 24, about the whole assembly offering the young bullock.

We seem to understand better the individual matter that you have alluded to later, but how does the whole assembly offer one young bullock?

G.R.C. As far as I could go at the moment it would simply be that the saints universally would carry the thing before God in their soul relations with God.

Ques. Is there any application at all in our localities? I am sure what you say must be right, that the thing should be carried generally; but in any sense, are we to feel in our localities a thing that happens amongst us generally.

G.R.C. Oh certainly. Whatever applies to the universal position must be carried into the locality; the whole meeting should be feeling things in this way.

Ques. Have we gone perhaps a little too far, in the past, in avoiding what we have spoken of as meetings for humiliation?

G.R.C. J.T. refers to such meetings in his letters. He did not speak as though he cared for them. But I think it would be a thing that we could look into.

Ques. Would this verse 24 refer to a general judgment of matters amongst the saints?

The matter being judged, a conclusion arrived at, it is followed up with what is fragrant to God in the service, and the ministry being not impeded by it.
Is the thought not that we should be able to go forward, matters then being worked out locally?

G.R.C. I think our being able to go forward is so important. The word in Deuteronomy is

“ye have gone round this mountain long enough”.

Things need to be finalised in a right way so that we can move on. That is what Paul would have in mind at Corinth when he says
- “when your obedience shall have been fulfilled”.
He would take certain action, and would be justified in it, because he had brought fulness of grace to bear on them.
Therefore he would be justified in severity when he came, and it would leave the position free then for movement onward.

Ques. Would not this question be answered in the scope given to elders in Leviticus 4 in regard to the sin of inadvertance in the assembly?

Rem. So that whilst Paul was concerned about the person at Corinth, he was also equally concerned that the saints should be carried by it, do you think? And would the second epistle bring in a movement forward?

G.R.C. Yes, it is quite clear that in a meeting of assembly character everyone is expected to be carried, and the whole meeting in Corinth were carried as the second epistle shows; they were all affected.

Ques. Would Joshua 7: 10 link with it at all?

“And Jehovah said to Joshua, Rise up, wherefore liest thou thus upon thy face? Israel has sinned”.

G.R.C. Quite so. If there is any sin, it affects the whole of Israel, and that is an important point to bear in mind – to carry the iniquity of it in our spirits.

In the recovery we are being recovered to what was always right,

but we have not seen it up to a certain point, so that every feature of recovery, right from the beginning has involved considerable exercise before God.

Ques. Is that why it says

“hid from the eyes of the assembly”?

G.R.C. Yes. You see the recovery has been stage by stage, but then at every stage we realise that what we have now got light upon was always true.

Ques. Would the word to Sardis

“I have not found thy works complete before my God”, Revelation 3: 2,

bring this exercise to bear upon us?

G.R.C. Quite so. You mean we have not gone on to completion.

Ques. I would like to ask you to say another word as to this matter of forgiveness.

I am thinking now of the one soul sinning through inadvertance, and the word in the passage I have been referring to is
- “I exhort you to assure him of your love”.
If we retain reserves against the brother, we are playing up to the enemy, are we not? It says
- “that we might not have Satan get an advantage against us for we are not ignorant of his thoughts”, 2 Corinthians 2: 8, 11.

G.R.C. Yes, the connection there is very interesting. One had not properly given attention to it.

When he says “we are not ignorant of his thoughts”, you mean it is lest there should be an unforgiving spirit?

Rem. Yes, and the enemy would bring in disunity amongst the saints – a lack of liberty that he is going to enjoin in chapter 3, do you feel?

Ques. So, does not forgiveness become an integral part of the divine system?

G.R.C. We would not have any standing with God apart from it.

Ques. And how would the testimony be maintained apart from it?

G.R.C. And specially we should realise that in days of recovery, on the lines on which we have just been speaking,

every accession of light exposes that we have been going on with sins of ignorance.

All along the line this is an experience for us.

Rem. It says in Numbers 14: 19

“Pardon, I beseech thee, the iniquity of this people according to the greatness of thy loving-kindness, and as thou hast forgiven this people, from Egypt even until now”.

G.R.C. That bears very much on what we are saying. Even in those days it was on the principle of forgiveness that God continued with the people.

Rem. J.T. called attention, in Glasgow in 1949, to the thought of ‘mending’ being the same as restoration in Galatians 6: 1, and the thought of the mending of the nets enters into that thought. The word is mending, so that the net can be used as it was before.

Rem. As to the fruit – some forward movement as a result of dealing with evil – I was wondering whether we did not get a very clear example of that

in Acts 5, where multitudes were added the more, and there was great increase of power.

I was wondering, as to what was said a little earlier as to the necessity of dealing with such matters as evil associations – and radio in houses and that kind of thing –
- whether there would not be also a great accession of power with us if we are prepared to face this exercise!
The Lord has, by the Spirit, definitely raised a challenge amongst us of late, very recently in particular, as to all such matters;
- whether it is not incumbent upon us to act upon this with a view to a special fresh power and increase in the service of God and in the testimony! Would you say that is right?

G.R.C. Yes indeed. The scripture you draw attention to is most striking as to the increase of power, and the multitudes added. And as to others, they dare not join themselves to them, which was a salvation.

Ques. Would you look for every local meeting to speak in care over matters which the Lord may be raising, even although they may not feel it has a direct application to them?

G.R.C. I think so. Because otherwise, how is the whole assembly going to take the matter up? There should be a universal taking of it up, and that would take place in the local assemblies.

Ques. Do the tassels of blue form some answer?

G.R.C. I thought that is the climax of this instruction, that is how it ends, that is the end in view, and has a very important bearing on current exercises.

Rem. It is interesting that it is a kind of climax, that there should be some moral answer substantially in the saints.

It is interesting that whilst the cloud may tend to recede at certain times in these experiences, it all has in view the more substantial working out of the thing in the saints.
When the cloud was visibly observed and moved there was no question, it was a question of immediate action.
But is not the divine glory in the fact that the saints answer of themselves to the work of God and the truth of God?

G.R.C. So this seems to be a very subjective result. They were to make them; it is what the people did themselves; they made them tassels.

And then they attached to the tassels at the corners, a lace of blue.
All that meant workmanship which would substantially prove that they were a heavenly people;
- it is really, in a way, the recovery from the breakdown of chapter 14, that now they are seen to be substantially a heavenly people.

Ques. In Ephesians 5 and 6 you would get an example of what you are saying, the offering of Christ.

Is there not a suggestion there of what you have said, the burnt offering and the oblation coming in there;
- the singing in that chapter would be the drink offering, the feeling of the saints contributing to God,
- and then the tassels of blue in the outward relationships, bondmen and so on.
There is a heavenly colour about the saints as following that line of teaching.

G.R.C. I am sure that is true.

Ques. Would not the lace of blue suggest sensitiveness, lace is very soon destroyed, is it not?

G.R.C. That is very interesting. Lace is a very delicate thing, as you say, it can easily be destroyed and damaged, so that

this suggests a refined result in the saints, and on the corners of their garments, the corners are nearest to the earth.

Ques. Is there a suggestion that it is a stimulation to one another? It is to look upon one another, to attract attention to this heavenly character worked out substantially in the saints.

G.R.C. The note suggests that, a tassel or a flower to attract attention.

What a beautiful sight to see the saints all with this flower as it were, on the corners of their garments, and adorned with the lace of blue!
Well, how we should stimulate one another on the heavenly line!

Ques. Would it also have a testimonial bearing, that others can take account that there are those who are a heavenly people here on earth?

G.R.C. I am sure of this, that men would not want you in their associations then. Men would not want you at all if you have got the tassels of blue, and the lace.

Ques. And have not the young growing up amongst us an advantage peculiar to this day?

Many of us have defiled our garments, and we have had to wash our robes.
Do not they as starting out in life, start out with clean garments, and would we not encourage them to keep them thus, as in Sardis,
- “which have not defiled their garments and they shall walk with me in white”?

G.R.C. That is very good indeed, and should be a very great encouragement to the young, so that with undefiled garments they might begin early with the tassel and the lace of blue.

Ques. What about the joy of forgiveness? One feels we know very little about that; but in Luke 15 joy is very important in connection with forgiveness, and I feel we need to know something about it.

G.R.C. I would think the elder brother would spoil it, and I think that is the idea perhaps of the man gathering sticks.

He was out of accord with the spirit of the dispensation, God’s sabbath. He would bring natural heat to bear on the situation.
Paul gathered sticks in a right way in Acts 28 for the real kind of warmth among the saints.

Rem. Paul provided sticks to secure sabbath conditions; this is getting sticks to break sabbath conditions.

G.R.C. Yes.

Ques. Is Ephesians 4: 31 like the gathering sticks,

“Let all bitterness, and heat of passion, and wrath, and clamour, and injurious language, be removed from you, with all malice; and be to one another kind”?

G.R.C. We certainly need to be free of that kind of heat, the heat of passion.

Ques. Is not the Lord Himself the great test? I was thinking, in the days of His sojourn on earth, He noticed a lot of things that were not in keeping with the teaching of Moses,

and one of them was that they were having enlarged blue ribbon in the bottom of their garments, so that they were drawing undue attention to themselves.
So that the Lord I suppose would put us to the test as to whether we know these things mentally or have really done them.

G.R.C. Yes, it is remarkable how the Pharisees took on these things in a literal and material way with no reality,

but the exercises we have been speaking about, going through them, will bring about the true spiritual things.

Page Top Reading Top

READING 4

Ordering of the Camp ( 4 )
Numbers 17: 1-13; 18: 1-7; 19: 1-6; 20: 7-13
Memorials 8: 74-100

READING 4
Ordering of the Camp ( 4 ) Numbers 17: 1-13; 18: 1-7; 19: 1-6; 20: 7-13 Memorials 8: 74-100

G.R.C. We have referred to the way God had reserves with which to meet every contingency,

so that outbreaks of the flesh and sin in the flesh served to bring out further reserves on God’s part;

and God would give those, who were ready for it, further instruction as to His purposes in Christ.

In chapter 16, the great rebellion is recorded – referring, typically to the setting up of the clerical and hierarchical system in the Christian profession.

J.N.D. wrote that “the notion of a clergyman is dispensationally the sin against the Holy Spirit”.
The setting up of the clerical system is the great rebellion that has marked this dispensation, setting aside, in practice, the Holy Spirit personally as well as Himself as the anointing.
It is also rebellion against the lordship and priesthood of Christ.
We have a coalition in that chapter with Korah and those of Levi aspiring to the priesthood, and Dathan and Abiram of the tribe of Reuben with the two hundred and fifty princes, who were all jealous of the authority of Moses.
As I say, this is the outstanding sin of Christendom, setting aside the authority of Christ, setting aside His priesthood, establishing an official priesthood which has no divine authority.
The most that Korah and those with him could claim was that they were Levites; but they also claimed the priesthood – which God says of the priests that their anointing shall be to them an everlasting priesthood.
So that to set up an official, humanly ordained priesthood, is an insult to the Holy Spirit; because the anointing is to be to God’s priests the everlasting priesthood – Exodus 40.
- Priesthood is contingent upon the anointing.
But following this great rebellion we have what is very affecting because it specially bears on our day. We come in after the rebellion.
2 Timothy is to guide us as to our actions relative to the great rebellion. And the way God meets it in connection with
- “the staff of Levi”, as it is called in verse 3 of chapter 17,
- and “the staff of Aaron for the house of Levi” in verse 8,
is remarkable as bearing on the truth of Christ’s priesthood and as to the priesthood of the saints as related to Him, at the beginning of chapter 18, in these last days.
It is not that this was not true at the beginning of the dispensation and apprehended fully by the apostles particularly such as Paul. They ministered it.
But then the rebellion having come, as well as the priesthood of Christ, what is truly priestly and truly levitical having been submerged,
- God has been pleased to meet it by a particular presentation of the glory and grace of the priesthood of Christ as represented in the staff of Levi.
- It is also called the staff of Aaron for the house of Levi.
In contrast to all the other staves, whatever pretension there might have been on the part of others, it was the staff of Aaron alone which budded and brought forth buds and bloomed blossoms, and ripened almonds.
And so in the recovery, God has brought before us in a remarkable way the greatness of Christ as our great high priest ever living to intercede for us;
- and God has also established the Priest in the power of an indissoluble life, and our priesthood as related to Him, and relative to that, the importance of the Levites.
The whole thing is revived here with a new and added grace and glory attaching to it – the whole system of priesthood and levitical service, and the Israel of God, are brought in in chapter 18.
It would indicate a revival in the nation; they were bringing their heave offerings, as support for the priests, and the tithes for the Levites.
So that at the close of the dispensation there should be this great revival in the apprehension of Christ as Priest, and
- priestly and levitical service going on amongst the saints supported by the whole economy of Israel.
And I think it is the power and light of this that would enable us to face the exercises of Numbers 19.
God brings in alongside of it, as a statute, permanent means of purification;
- so that this service might never again be interrupted, the water of separation was to be always available.
It brings before us an aspect of the death of Christ not opened up before – a terrible aspect of it – yet a most touching one;
- and that is brought in, as it were, in the light of this great recovery of the glory of priestly and levitical service.
It is that which has strengthened us to face the exercises of Numbers 19, and to accept that aspect of the death of Christ; because
- the priesthood and all the services that pertain to it have become so attractive to us that we cannot bear the idea of anything that would militate against it. That is the main thought in mind.
Then in chapter 20 we see the use of Aaron’s staff in a special way, how God at the close of the dispensation is intent upon meeting things in the power of priestly grace and glory; so that at the close there should be a people ready for entering the land.

Ques. Do you take it that the whole of the recovery is based upon the life that is in Christ Jesus? The apostle introduces the second epistle to Timothy by speaking of himself as

“apostle of Jesus Christ by God’s will, according to the promise of life, the life which is in Christ Jesus”, 2 Timothy 1: 1.

Does that have to be maintained right through the recovery?

G.R.C. I would think so, I would think that has some bearing upon the rod of Aaron here. Then in chapter 2 he opens with

“Therefore, my child, be strong in the grace which is in Christ Jesus”.

The grace of the living and heavenly Priest.

Ques. Is there something in the fact that the rod of Aaron that sprouted is mentioned in Hebrews 9: 4 as being in the Ark? I was thinking how closely connected with Christ it is.

“And the ark of the covenant, covered round in every part with gold, in which were the golden pot that had the manna, and the rod of Aaron that had sprouted”.

G.R.C. That is an interesting allusion, because Hebrews in a special way brings before us the glory and attractiveness of Christ’s priesthood from that standpoint.

He is priest in the power of indissoluble life.

It tells us that if He were on earth He would not be a priest; the features of priesthood were there of course, but officially He had no standing as priest when here on earth.
But Hebrews presents Him as the risen One who has entered in, the heavenly Priest, and we are holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling.
And in that indissoluble life that He lives He ever lives to intercede for us.

Ques. At what point did the priesthood of Christ begin? I am thinking of the scripture that you have already quoted that if He were on earth He would not be a priest – though, as you say, He was priestly in action and in His life. I am wondering at what point His official priesthood began.

G.R.C. Luke stresses how priestly everything was that Jesus did; but I would think that

His priesthood must have begun when by the eternal Spirit He offered Himself without spot to God.

I am only putting that forward as a suggestion, but that was the great high priestly offering which inaugurated the system. It says
- “every high priest is constituted for the offering both of gifts and sacrifices”, chapter 8: 3,
and then the following chapters tell us what it was that Jesus had to offer;
- what He had to offer was His own body, the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Rem. I am feeling my way in the matter as to whether it is in the offering of Himself, or whether in the language of the type it is the taking in of the blood. I really want help on it.

G.R.C. If I remember rightly, I think J.T. referred to the offering of Himself as the great high priestly offering.

What He had to offer was Himself; and that is the foundation for His priesthood and ours too.
Whether we could say that at that time He was officially the Priest I would not like to say; He certainly was as entering in.

Rem. And in a comment on Hebrews 9: 14

“Who by the eternal Spirit offered Himself spotless to God”

– he [i.e., J.T.] said ‘We have the altar, the priest and the offering in His own Person’.

G.R.C. Quite so. One thing is quite clear, that it is as having offered Himself and entered in that He takes up His priestly office in regard to us – ever living to intercede for us.

It is as risen and living that He intercedes; and it is as the heavenly Priest that we are associated with Him.
And another thing to keep in mind, when we think of the great High Priest, that He is what we have –
- “we have such a one high priest”.
But then the other side of it is what God has in Him, as
- the “minister of the holy places”, Hebrews 8: 1.

Ques. At the end of Luke’s gospel it says,

“And he led them out as far as Bethany, and having lifted up his hands, he blessed them”, Luke 24: 50.

Is that a priestly act?

G.R.C. It is certainly a priestly act.

Rem. And the answer to it is in the priests continually in the temple praising and blessing God.

G.R.C. Yes, He having been carried up into heaven as the heavenly priest, He left the priestly company behind.

Ques. Does the official side require the true tabernacle, and would “we have such a one high priest” refer to where He has seated Himself?

And would that combine Aaron’s rod that budded and the gold of deity?

G.R.C. You mean by deity the fact that He seated Himself.

And there He is, seated as the heavenly priest, and we have Him. That is a great point in this chapter, that we have such an One.
What took place in this chapter was to bring Aaron’s rod before the testimony:
- “Bring Aaron’s staff again before the testimony, to be kept as a token for the sons of rebellion, that thou mayest put an end to their murmurings before me, that they may not die”, verse 10.
One of the burdens of these chapters is that they may not die; God wanted no more death, He wanted the living service of priesthood amongst His people.
Then again, in chapter 18, verse 5,
- “that there come no wrath any more upon the children of Israel”.
Also in verse 3 of that chapter,
- “That they may not die”.

Rem. I remember hearing our brother Mr. Raven giving an address at Peterborough on this very matter, many years ago, saying

‘I can understand dispensational difficulties being raised as to the Lord as priest; but I have no doubt He did a great deal of priestly service when He was here on earth’. [Compare FER 19: 63]
Does that help?

G.R.C. Yes it does. It is important to carry that in our minds, because it is so true.

Much of what the Lord did on earth was priestly in a superlative way; but He was not officially in that office.

Ques. What would be involved in this progressive matter at the end of verse 8? 1 was thinking of progression in it

– “it budded and brought forth buds and bloomed blossoms, and ripened almonds” –

as though matters were seen to fruition on this basis of life.

G.R.C. Does it not suggest every feature of life and fruitfulness seen in Christ, seen in Him personally when He was here,

but now seen in Him as available to us – our great High Priest as risen and in heaven.

Ques. Would it carry also the thought of the beautiful features coming out in the priestly family as additional attestation of the priesthood of Christ?

G.R.C. I think so, because it is the staff of Aaron for the house of Levi.

Rem. I remember J.T. making a remark including a reference to Phinehas as being the fruit of this matter.

G.R.C. That is interesting. The staves as put before Jehovah were found to be dead.

But Aaron’s rod budded and brought forth buds and bloomed blossoms and ripened almonds; it was a question of life out of death.
This specially has in mind the priesthood of Christ in the power of life out of death, because it is only thus that He can be our great high priest in the official sense; and that we can get the benefit of Him.
But the other rods remain dead, and therefore the people come to a judgment of themselves; they say
- “Lo, we expire, we perish, we all perish”.
Because they saw that their rods remained dead; there was only one rod which showed the signs of life.
It is good to come to that – which puts an end to the murmurings;
- “That thou mayest put an end to their murmurings before me, that they may not die”.
We should make a full surrender and learn to judge any feature of the flesh that would mitigate against giving Christ His full place as the great Priest and the Minister of the holy places.
And which would enable us in the power of His life to take up the service ourselves.

Rem. It would have a very sobering effect on them as they took them up, when the rod of Aaron was the only one that remained before God.

G.R.C. That is right. It says Moses brought out all the staves from before Jehovah to all the children of Israel, and they looked and took each one his staff. That would be a very solemn thing for them, every staff remained dead except Aaron’s.

Ques. It says “kept as a token for the sons of rebellion”.

That seems to suggest that it has a forward look, not to the immediate conditions that were there only.
That being so, is rebellion – no matter what the immediate circumstances are – actually against Christ in the various offices that God has established in Him?

G.R.C. It is. So that every movement of sin in the flesh, which is in principle rebellious, is against Christ as Lord and Priest.

But what is stressed here is the priesthood, because His priesthood is so attractive, and our acceptance of it is the means of our salvation, so that we might not die, in spite of being by nature sons of rebellion.
We have historically come out of the great rebellion, as we might say; yet if we accept and avail ourselves of the priesthood of Christ we shall not die.
We shall be brought into the power of His risen life.

Ques. Is it not remarkable how the word of God, and the great High Priest are set together in Hebrews 4? I was thinking of the searching character of the word of God:

“living and operative, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and penetrating to the division of soul and spirit, both of joints and marrow, and a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
“And there is not a creature unapparent before him; but all things are naked and laid bare to his eyes, with whom we have to do”.

And then immediately as the word of God is brought to bear upon us, in this searching way, it calls attention to the great High Priest.

G.R.C. Very good. Because if the word of God has its way with us like that, we shall use the language here, in principle:

“we expire, we perish, all perish”.

What can a man do if a sword is through his soul and spirit, and the joints and marrow? The man is mortally wounded, as we say.
And that is a great thing, to be mortally wounded; so that the experience of chapter 16 plus that of chapter 17, and the witness of these rods, would bring that about.
We would be really before God as recognising that by nature all is death and that our hope only lies in the risen and heavenly Priest.
But His grace is super abundant, so that it says
- “He is able to save completely those who approach by him to God, always living to intercede for them”, Hebrews 7: 25.

Ques. Would this be seen early in the Acts – chapter 2: 37 – in the testimony to the risen life of Jesus, and then the evidence of life in the apostles, and also the effect in those who heard the word,

“What shall we do?”

Would that be the working out of it? I was thinking, confirming what you said, of the word that went forth, all the words of this life.
The life was not only in Jesus personally, but it was worked out in the power of the Spirit in the saints here.

G.R.C. That is very interesting.

“Go ye and stand and speak in the temple to all the people the words of this life”, Acts 5: 20.

The life was there in evidence in Jerusalem, a priestly company in relationship with the living Priest above – an amazing testimony in Jerusalem, and Peter was to speak all the words of this life.

Ques. Does Paul furnish us with a good example of that in his service to the Corinthians? He says that he was

“always delivered unto death on account of Jesus, that the life also of Jesus may be manifested in our mortal flesh”, 2 Cor. 4: 11.

He would not have his own staff; he would really be representative of the life of Christ?

G.R.C. I was thinking of that chapter, where you really get what they thought – insofar as it can be worked out in the saints.

The budding and the blooming of blossoms, and the ripened almonds, would speak of
- “the life of Jesus”, whereas
- “Bearing about in the body the dying of Jesus”
would be the recognition on our side that
- “we all perish”.
But then this makes way for
- “the life also of Jesus may be manifested in our mortal flesh”.
God comes in in that way to help us in the matter. And then he says
- “death works in us, but life in you”.
The more we are in the good of the fact that our staves are just dead, the more benefit we become to the saints.
Life will work in the saints through the evidences of true priesthood in us.

Ques. Is it not remarkable that in Hebrews 3: 1 it is

“consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession”?

Does it not link on very strikingly with this considering of Aaron’s staff?

G.R.C. Yes, and from that point on, little is said about the apostle in Hebrews;

it develops greatly the thought of the High Priest.

And that is the point here, the murmuring and the rebellion had been against Moses as well as Aaron.
But the fact of the matter is what will save us is not only lordship – in Moses – but priesthood; otherwise we shall die.
The point is, if we do not avail ourselves of Christ as the risen and heavenly Priest, we shall die – as far as our part in the testimony down here is concerned.

Ques. Would you say a word now as to the emphasis upon obedience in Hebrews 5, in contrast to the sons of rebellion – the emphasis on His obedience and our obedience?

G.R.C. That is very important, and it is put in a most attractive setting – that even He,

“though he were Son, he learned obedience from the things which he suffered”.

The theme of that chapter really is that He was taken from men and for men:
- “every high priest taken from amongst men is established for men in things relating to God”, Hebrews 5: 1.
It thus views Christ as taken for men in things relating to God; but in order to be a true High Priest He learned obedience here in that way.
So that obedience might become attractive to us; how easy to obey One like that! He is the author of eternal salvation to those that obey Him.

Rem. So the Son perfected for ever is the High Priest.

G.R.C. That is right. “A Son perfected for ever”, Hebrews 7: 28.

He was ever perfect; but was perfected for the office of High Priest, as we are also told elsewhere that He was made perfect through the things that He suffered.

Ques. Would the budding of the staff have in mind life in all its phases – beautiful phases, early life, in the buds;

and then developing life in the blossoms and maturity in the ripened almonds?

Do all those phases find expression in the saints as under the influence of Christ?

G.R.C. I thought that. Therefore the young people who are at the budding stage need not fear to exercise priesthood.

Ques. Is that why it is for the house of Levi?

G.R.C. I think so, it is the rod of Aaron for the house of Levi. That we might all take up,

firstly our priestly responsibilities,
and secondly our levitical responsibilities.

Ques. Has the development of these attractive features of life amongst the saints, in the various grades of life, been one of the choice features of the revival, particularly of recent years?

G.R.C. That is a very encouraging feature, specially of recent years.

The young persons coming into fellowship young – receiving the Spirit young; and the moment you receive the Spirit you belong to the priesthood and should be free to function young. We love to see the buds.

Ques. Could we regard the life that is suggested in Philadelphia as the answer to the priesthood of Christ operating at this time, bringing something out of the deadness of Sardis?

G.R.C. I think that makes the matter clear where it comes in the history of the dispensation, the Lord says as to Jezebel

“And her children will I kill with death”, Revelation 2: 23.

How the Lord must feel having to say a thing like that! And then as to Sardis,
- “I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead”.
Well, what is there for God, in Jezebel’s children? Nothing, they are dead. What is there for God in Sardis? a name to live, but dead.
There is no availing themselves of the priesthood in Christ in those two settings; and yet He presents Himself to Sardis as the One who has the seven spirits of God.
There is the fulness of life available in Him, and yet Sardis takes no advantage of it. There is the living Priest on high, in heaven, and Sardis takes no advantage of it.
A name to live but is dead. We can only live in the power of the priesthood of Christ.

Ques. While this great high priestly system is established, and is available for every one of us, is it not only exercised persons that really get the gain of this service?

In Hebrews 4, He speaks about the danger of so many who might fail to arrive at the great thoughts of God for them, coming short of the purpose of God.
And so is not that where we get the gain of the high priestly service of Christ as our hearts and minds are set in regard to the great thoughts of God – all this is available for us?

G.R.C. That would save any of us from the high-handed sin we spoke about this morning, sinning with a high hand, because sinning with a high hand really is not hearkening to the word of Hebrews 3 and 4.

“Today if ye will hear his voice harden not your hearts”.

The word is quick and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword; it hurts, and the danger is to refuse it and to harden the heart.
But then, as has just been said – coupled with the action of God’s word – we have the statement:
- “Having therefore a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, Let us hold fast the confession”.
However much it hurts, let us hold fast the confession, let us accept the hurt of the word, because we have got the living Priest on high to sustain us.
And chapter 5 shows what He has been through, that He can enter into the whole matter.

Rem. I thought it was a question really of “hearing today”.

The word that the Lord is giving today, and not having our hearts hardened in relation to it; and it is in that way the high priestly service of Christ comes in to sustain us and to support us in regard to it.

G.R.C. That is it; and, therefore, if we get the gain of what this chapter brings out we shall not die;

we shall come to a judgment of ourselves, saying “we expire”, in that sense, “we all perish”.

That is, there is no hope after the flesh; but the whole point is that, as accepting that, it puts an end to our murmurings; we accept the truth as to ourselves, because we have the flesh in judgment, according to verse 10.
- “That thou mayest put an end to their murmurings before me that they may not die”.
God wants people to live. God wants the priesthood to function. And that can only be in life.

Ques. In Psalm 110, the priestly Psalm, the great gain of the priestly service of Christ comes in the first half of the Psalm before you get the judgment side, such as filling all places with dead bodies.

Would the order of that be very suggestive? I am thinking particularly of
- “Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power”, verse 3.
That is, they have accepted the priestly service of Christ; but the judging side comes toward the end of the psalm.

G.R.C. Yes, that verse that you quote is very beautiful,

“Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power in holy splendour”.

What a wonderful thing that is! That is what God is bringing us to in these last days.

Ques. Do we see persons who have got the gain of the priestly service in the place that the sons of Korah have in the second book of psalms?

I was thinking particularly of Psalms 45-48; in Psalm 45 we have the greatness of the king; in 46 and 47 the greatness of God, and in 48 the greatness of the city.

G.R.C. That is a very instructive suggestion, because it links up chapters 16 and 17 here.

Korah himself died as we know, but his children did not; and undoubtedly from those psalms his children came into the gain in a remarkable way, as you say.
The psalms for the sons of Korah are some of the most beautiful.

Ques. Is the outcome of this in chapter 18 an elevation, in a way, of the priesthood in its availability to God?

It is a new word, is it not, to Aaron and to the whole tribe of Levi, as to what they are to take on in priesthood?
- Verses 1 and 2, to “bear the iniquity”,
- and the word “unite with thee”.
It is a new word as to the status of priesthood, is it not?
It is a further injunction as to how they are to come into the priesthood, and how they are to take it up. They had never had this lesson before.
I thought, in connection with what you have been stressing as to life, that now the priesthood in a sense stands between God and the people in that light.
And the word is “may unite with thee”.

G.R.C. So the priests stood between the living and the dead. Only those who recognise the priest are among the living; all the rest are the dead.

And we are surrounded by dead persons, dead bodies; and you think we should in priestly feeling bear the iniquity before God. Is that what is in your mind?

Rem. I wonder whether that is not in mind. It is a broader outlook for the priesthood.

G.R.C. Yes. The iniquity of the sanctuary; we are to feel intensely with God all that has come into the Christian profession, I would say.

Ques. Would that have a special reference to these days of revival, to bear the iniquity of the sanctuary and the iniquity of the priesthood?

G.R.C. I am sure it would. Has it not been said – I have only heard this by hearsay – that

J.N.D. said the breakdown of the church was never absent from his thoughts either for an hour or half an hour? His waking thoughts centred on it – it was always pressing on him.

Ques. Would 2 Timothy 2: 8, and the feelings of Paul, bear on this matter –

“Remember Jesus Christ raised from among the dead, of the seed of David”;

his own suffering position, and his helping Timothy in that way to bear the iniquity of the sanctuary?
The true levitical touch then comes in at the end of the chapter, that even an opposer is dealt with in a measure of priestly grace.

G.R.C. That is very interesting. That end of the chapter, from that standpoint, is a wonderful thing; the priestly grace that would mark the bondman of the Lord.

Ques. Would it not be right to say the great volume of J.T.’s ministry for 50 years or so really bore on the enrichment for God in the assembly, in freshness and power, of the priestly service?

G.R.C. Yes, I am sure that is so; and what benefits we have received from it!

Rem. J.N.D’s ministry was more perhaps for the establishment of our position publicly here, as sharing in the great public failure, but making way for the increase of the priestly service as has just been said.

G.R.C. Yes. J.T.’s ministry was priestly in a peculiar way.

Ques. So would this give a real objective to all levitical service, having in mind the enrichment of what is priestly?

G.R.C. Yes. “The tribe of Levi, the tribe of thy father, bring near with thee, that they may unite with thee, and minister unto thee”.

So that the Levite is ministering to the priest all the time. All he does is in view of the priest functioning more effectively.

Ques. Would you say a word as to the way that the Spirit and the Spirit’s service are intimately bound up with the priesthood of Christ; and is it under the power of the anointing that the saints are brought into it?

G.R.C. Yes, the word in Exodus 40: 15 always comes to one’s mind:

“Thou shalt anoint them,” [that is Aaron’s sons] “as thou didst anoint their father, that they may serve me as priests.
“And their anointing shall be to them an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations”.

So it is only in virtue of the Spirit that we can come into this at all.

Rem. I was thinking of what was referred to earlier.

In Thyatira it is a question of the rejection of the Person of Christ. His displacement as the Son of God;
- and then in Sardis it is the neglect of the Holy Spirit.
If these things are recognised we get the gain of what there is in Philadelphia, do we?

G.R.C. That is very good; because we need to see that as to Sardis,

“These things saith he that has the seven spirits of God, and the seven stars”, Revelation 3: 1.

The seven spirits of God, the fulness of the Spirit is still available to us and that is what Sardis neglects.

Ques. In John 14 the Lord says.

“Because I live ye also shall live”,

then He speaks of that day. Has the Lord in view this day, the Spirit’s day?

G.R.C. He has. And you can see how what we know, what He says there: “In that day ye shall know” – how it bears on the functioning priesthood –

“In that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you”, John 14: 20.

The “I in you”, can only mean that we are functioning in the power of the life of Christ, towards His Father and His God.

Ques. Would the third and fourth of Zechariah support what our brother has just said? In Zechariah 3 we get the priests clothed, in chapter 4 all the resources there are in the Spirit.

G.R.C. Yes we do; and that again links with the current revival. The filthy garments are taken off, that is like the sins of the dispensation.

We might be weighed down with the sins of the dispensation, the great rebellion;
- and then the failures of chapters 11, 12, 13 and 14 in this book, might also weigh us right down, because we have to take the burden on ourselves; but they are not to weigh us down.
It says in Zechariah,
- “Take off the filthy garments and clothe him with festival robes”.
God wants the end to be the best.

Ques. Would the bearing of Nehemiah 9, and Nehemiah’s feeling in regard of all that had come in in relation to bearing the iniquity, and then chapter 10, give us the full light of the priesthood functioning – in everything provided suitably for God.

G.R.C. That is all very helpful. What were you thinking of in chapter 10?

Rem. I was thinking of how they charged themselves in relation to the service of

“the house of our God”.

And then you get the bringing in of the continual burnt offerings, the sabbaths, the new moons, the set feasts, the holy things,
- “the sin offerings to make atonement for Israel, and for all the work of the house of our God”.
And then you get the priests immediately brought in as functioning rightly.

G.R.C. That is indeed very helpful. As you say, chapter 9 is like bearing the iniquity of the sanctuary, and then the service goes on in power.

Ques. Reference was made to the Levites and the levitical service ministering to the priests; would you also say that all our exercises as the children of Israel are in their turn to minister to what is levitical – all this having in mind the heave offering from it for Jehovah?

G.R.C. You are thinking now of verse 8 onwards of chapter 18.

Rem. Yes. We did not have that read, but I am wondering if we could bring that into the matter.

G.R.C. Yes I think we should. It shows that the whole nation were in the exercise.

Rem. The great objective, as has been remarked, being the enrichment of the service of God.

G.R.C. Yes. So that there is no suggestion in what is said here that there would be any shortage:

“my heave offerings, of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; to thee have I given them, because of the anointing, and to thy sons by an everlasting statute”.

And then it goes over all those things without any suggestion of lack of any kind.
And from verse 21 onwards, the children of Levi were to have the tithes – they were cared for – and then they tithed the tithes at the end of the chapter to give to the priests.
So that you can see that the whole nation was tributary to the sanctuary, and to the service of God in the sanctuary.
In the early chapters we have seen the whole nation tributary in defence of things and in movement;
- here we have the whole nation contributing heartily to the support of the priests and the Levites.

Ques. Is the word ‘charged’ to be taken account of, do you think in chapter 18? It is continually spoken of there, and I just wondered

whether the challenge to the priesthood, and God’s vindication of it, would not give more force to the matter of the charge, as in verse 3 for instance!

G.R.C. I think so, it does raise the question with us as to how far we are prepared to accept the idea of charge, something entrusted.

We have spoken of the appointments, of the tribe of Levi being appointed, but they were appointed to a charge.
And then the priests were appointed to a greater charge; and it really is encumbent upon us to accept the charge in all that it involves. This is seen in Paul’s word to Timothy:
- “This charge I commit to thee”, 1 Timothy 1: 18.
And also in chapter 6, verse 13:
- “I enjoin thee before God … and Christ Jesus”.

Rem. If this really laid hold of us there would be no thoughts entertained of giving things up in relation to the testimony of any feature of the service.

G.R.C. That is right, so that he says to Timothy,

“I enjoin thee before God who preserves all things in life, and Christ Jesus who witnessed before Pontius Pilate the good confession, that thou keep the commandment”, 1 Timothy 6: 13.

Now I think that would cover the whole matter, the whole charge of the priests and the Levites, that they will keep the commandments spotless, irreproachable until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ.
We want to carry through the testimony until the appearing.
We know that the Lord will take us a little prior to the appearing, but then the appearing is in our minds; what we are carrying is going to come out in display at the appearing.

Ques. Are we not helped in accepting the charge, the Lord coming in and helping us in the Spirit, as He says to Timothy,

“keep by the Holy Spirit the entrusted deposit”.

Is that accepting the charge?

G.R.C. It is; and then as you say, he shows how the Lord stood by him. So there is every encouragement in the Spirit and in the Lord.

Ques. Might we not require some stimulation in regard of levitical service?

One is reminded of the few who came back before Ezra, 74 only, as compared with about four thousand priests; as if the levitical side was lacking.
Might we not need stimulation even today? How much is to be done, and how few there are to do it.

G.R.C. That is an extraordinary thing; we ought to think about that.

No doubt God had in mind that the revival in Ezra’s and Nehemiah’s day should be mainly priestly, I mean that was to be the great thing,
- but the lack of Levites was deplorable, and Ezra humbled himself about it; and it seems somewhat like the epistle to Timothy.
There was no question about Timothy’s priestly feeling; Paul bore witness to his tears, but what he needed stimulating in was on the levitical side –
- “to rekindle the gift of God which is in thee”, 2 Timothy 1: 6.

Ques. “Do the work of an evangelist”?

G.R.C. Yes, do the work. So that the question of doing things is very important.

Rem. It goes on further to mention all the service of the tent.

G.R.C. Yes. Because if we do not do things as Levites the priesthood will suffer – however many priests may be there.

We are all delighted to think of the high office to which we have been appointed as priests, many young and old are glad to take part in the service of God,
- but what are we doing as Levites?
The service of God will not be what it should be unless we are all active as Levites.

Rem. If that inactivity is allowed it can only result in Laodiceanism.

Ques. What have you to say about the Lord’s final charge in Acts 1 verse 8:

“ye shall be my witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in Judea and in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth”.

I wonder whether we should take that particularly to heart, because I find in scripture that all men come first; and I wondered whether we do not need some stimulating in relation to the glad tidings!

G.R.C. Paul says in both epistles to Timothy that he was a herald and an apostle and a teacher of the nations.

And he laboured that the fulness of the nations might come in. So we have to think of that side.

It is all in view of the priesthood, all in view of God getting the portion that is His due.

Ques. Do you think that in verse 2 there is a suggestion that oneness should mark the whole service. The word is

“that they may unite with thee”;

everything priestly and levitical is to have the feature of oneness about it;
- the gospel is not to be divorced from the truth of the assembly and from ministry, but there is oneness to attach to it all.

G.R.C. That is very good, so that if there is life in the priesthood there should be corresponding life in the levitical service.

Ques. Would the word in 2 Timothy 4: 2, immediately coming in after the reference to the appearing that you have alluded to, call attention to the need for each part of the levitical service being filled out?

I was wondering whether the three names that Paul speaks of would cover the whole position:
1. Luke as “with me”, the priestly side and what is due to God;
2. Mark, more the levitical side in view of service;
3. and then Tychicus at Ephesus in view of the truth being maintained on the high level.

G.R.C. That is good.

Ques. Is there not something for us to understand in the fact that in the very important movements connected with the going of the ark into Jordan, and also round Jericho, and finally the house, that

the priests are seen carrying the ark?

When very great matters are on hand amongst the saints, does it not call for a very great liberty and power?

G.R.C. It does.

Rem. It is an observable fact that there is an increase of evangelical activity with the brethren very widely,

and also that young brothers who are found serving acceptably in priestly service are also observed to be helped in the preaching, both in the open air and in our rooms.

Is not that an encouraging feature?

G.R.C. Yes, one has noticed that, that the more a young man seems to be set for the assembly, the more, nowadays, he seems to be concerned about the open air preaching.

Ques. Would you say too that it is to be noted that in speaking to Philadelphia the Lord speaks about the whole habitable earth, that we are not to be limited in our outlook?

G.R.C. It is remarkable that Paul in the prison, in 2 Timothy, still speaks of himself as a herald and an apostle and teacher of the nations.

He did not limit the scope of his service at all.

Ques. Is this system so delightful to God that He initiates the move whereby it might be maintained in conditions suitable to Himself, in chapter 19?

G.R.C. That is what I was thinking. So that this comes in remarkably late in the history, and therefore specially bears on our day, when there is so much uncleanness, so many dead bodies about, that God brings in this statute of the law.

There had been the idea of cleansing as we have seen earlier, purification, but here it comes in as a statute;
- and God is again making full provision, as you say, so that nothing might come in to damage the revival in such an attractive way of priestly service.
There is the full provision, and the full setting out of the death of Christ relative to it.
And you will notice that it is before the eyes of the priest that it is all done. This was not exactly for God; it says in verse 5:
- “and one shall burn the heifer before his eyes”, Eleazar’s eyes.
Eleazar here no doubt being a type of priesthood in the saints; that is, it is to sustain the priests with a right judgment of man in the flesh, even at his best,
- that they should have a thorough and complete judgment of the whole man, relating to the sufferings of Christ.
The intensity of them is stressed here, when He took our place.
So that there is a supply of the ashes remaining; they are always available, and therefore a supply of the water of separation always available.

Ques. When you refer to many dead bodies about, you are using that expression in the way you did in your address in London in 1958?

See Early Ministry by G. R. Cowell: Part One: Separated from Evil and Separated to God.

G.R.C. Yes. That is true, is it not?

Rem. Yes definitely true.

Rem. We would be glad if you will enlarge on that a little. There are many young people who perhaps do not understand what a dead body is.

G.R.C. In the first instance we have to take it home to ourselves, this body of death which we carry about with us;

it is a question there of learning the lesson of Romans 7, and that we have a right to detach ourselves from it.

The water of purification comes in in that way; but then the extension of that is that there is only one fellowship of life on this earth,
- any banding together of men who have not God as a centre is nothing but a dead body.
It is against the whole mind of God that men should band themselves together without Himself as a centre;
- so that the one living body on earth is the fellowship of God’s Son, the body of Christ.

Ques. In connection with the application of the water of purification, is it a clean man that is brought in. I am thinking of verse 18,

“a clean man shall take hyssop”.

Does that raise the question of spirituality with us, do you think?

G.R.C. Yes, it raised the matter of cleanness; we have to distinguish between cleanness and holiness.

Cleanness is connected with purification – cleansing – cleansing is connected with righteousness.
It is a matter of righteousness that we should cleanse ourselves, or purify ourselves from every pollution of flesh and spirit.
That makes way for holiness which flows from love. But the “clean person” means we have to take account of what is clean.

Ques. Are the three matters that are referred to about the red heifer important? We say much about

“upon which never came yoke”,

as bearing upon the matter of yoke;
but is the ministry testing us very much about many details now, about blemishes and defects as well?

G.R.C. It is, because after taking up yokes the apostle says

“Having therefore these promises, beloved, let us purify ourselves from every pollution of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in God’s fear”, 2 Corinthians 7: 1.

That is a question of cleansing, becoming clean not only in respect of our bodies, but our spirits. Not only our external links, but the spirit that marks us.

Ques. Have you in mind that we might get free of an association, and yet still carry with us inwardly the defilement contracted thereby?

G.R.C. I do not think we can cut the exercise, as to purification, short of purifying ourselves from every pollution of flesh and spirit, every pollution.

The associations are the obvious things, but I am sure the Lord is calling on us to go the whole way.

Ques. And may we not be more tested in the pollutions of spirit? I am thinking that I may have broken the physical link, but am I not to be concerned about my own inwards, my spirit?

G.R.C. Quite so. Every pollution of flesh and spirit. That is a matter of cleansing. And we all should seek to be clean persons; we are not really morally fit for fellowship otherwise.

Rem. You helpfully called attention to the heifer’s ashes in London, linking it with Hebrews 9: 13-14; so that it says there

“If the blood of goats and bulls and a heifer’s ashes sprinkling the defiled, sanctifies for the purity of the flesh,
“how much rather shall the blood of the Christ, who by the eternal Spirit offered himself spotless to God, purify your conscience from dead works to worship the living God”.

Is that the great objective?

G.R.C. It is. And it just bears on what we are saying, that priestly service – because that word “worship” refers to the whole matter of priestly service – there, that nothing should hinder it.

And from the divine side every provision has been made; the sacrifices on the day of atonement, and the sacrifice of the red heifer are brought together in that verse; both are needed.
There is what is for God in the day of atonement, and its result for us; but then there is what is necessary in the way of purification in Numbers 19.
We have got to keep the two together according to that verse in Hebrews, if the priestly service is to proceed.

Ques. Would you mind saying a word on what the thought of the red heifer conveys to you – the colour?

If I remember rightly, J.T. referred to it as what is distinctive in the saints as over against all the uncleanness that is around us.

G.R.C. Primarily it is what is distinctive of Christ.

Rem. Quite so, seen in Him, and then reflected in the saints.

G.R.C. Exactly; because it is a female animal; and it is in contrast to the scarlet.

There is that which distinguishes men of the world which is called here cedar wood and scarlet; there is the hyssop too – false humility – the scarlet.
But the red here is I suppose like the ram skins dyed red in the tabernacle; it is divine distinctiveness.

Ques. Were you desirous of stressing the urgency with us now of getting clear of the many matters? You referred to Paul’s word in 2 Corinthians 10: 6,

“Having in readiness to avenge all disobedience”.

You had not in mind that matters now should drift on amongst the saints, had you?

G.R.C. No; I think it is becoming evident now that the time has arrived for finalisation.

Ques. Does not verse 20 bear on this matter, as to one who does not avail himself?

The word is the defiling of the sanctuary of Jehovah.
Would we not keep that as the standard before us in this exercise?

G.R.C. So that it bears upon what we are on. The priestly service, the sanctuary of Jehovah, and all that is going on there, is in peril.

Rem. “Purify ourselves from every pollution of flesh and spirit” – as you have quoted. I would like to make a comment on that for your observation.

If I attempt to cleanse myself from associations, and am not concerned about the motives of my heart, and influences that may be impure affecting my mind, then there is only one word for that, I am a hypocrite.
But if I am content with a purity of motive within, and not concerned with the outward side, then am I not attempting the impossible?

G.R.C. Yes, and they are both condemned, both of those ideas are condemned in the beginning of Leviticus 11.

The animals that chew the cud that have not a cloven hoof are unclean, as also those that have the cloven hoof but have not chewed the cud.

Rem. Yes, so it is the whole man, spirit, soul and body that God is after.

G.R.C. That is it.

Rem. If someone said they were getting free to be subject to the brethren, you would still encourage them to go on on those lines, and they would get help for themselves inwardly.

G.R.C. Yes, you would encourage them to get to God, and to allow this type to be before their eyes, before the eyes of the priest.

Ques. May I ask why the blood is sprinkled before the tent of meeting? It is not taken inside like Leviticus 16.

G.R.C. Because I think the fellowship is involved.

It is not a question here of approach to God; that is the day of atonement with the blood going in.
But here an unclean person forfeits his right for fellowship.

Ques. Would it bear the application, too, of where our Lord was crucified, in the public position? It was here where the blood of Jesus was shed.

G.R.C. Yes, quite so. The red heifer is slaughtered outside the camp.

With the sin offering, it was slaughtered at the altar and burnt outside the camp.
But this is the most awful view of the death of Christ, I think, that we have.
It was the way that God would have Aaron’s staff used, Moses made the mistake in using his own staff; he lifted up his hand with his staff.
He had done that before – with his staff he had smitten the rock, in Exodus – but at this stage of church recovery, the revival of the priesthood, and so on, having come to pass, it is not the time for that.
- The word was “speak to the Rock”,
and instead of that he spoke to the people.
He had not a word from God for the people, it was a word from himself; and we know how serious the consequences were.
What I believe has marked the current times – I mean the last 50 years – has been priestly speaking. Is that so?

Rem. So that Jehovah was hallowed in them.

G.R.C. Yes.

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