Fire comes into this passage; the fire must do its work. Baptised with the Holy Spirit and fire, would refer to what is inward – inward motives and thoughts –

• so that we are delivered from ecclesiastical sins, especially the great sin of independency – the moving outside the current of what the Holy Spirit is giving at any time.

• That sin marks christendom as a whole, and we need salvation from it.

A question was raised yesterday as to Philippians – “if ye are any otherwise minded”.

• I would point out that the word translated “mind” in Philippians is not the same word as that in Corinthians.

• “Mind” in Philippians refers to the bent of the mind,
  • “Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus”.

• Everyone is not equal to Paul in his bent of mind, that is, the bent of mind to go down as to things here, and to press upward as to the calling on high of God in Christ Jesus. He said,
  • “if ye are any otherwise minded, God will reveal it to you”;

• so that even in our bent of mind, it is the will of God that we should be the same.

• But, in Corinthians, “mind” means the thinking faculty, another matter altogether.

• There is no suggestion in Scripture that we should have different thoughts as to the truth, or that we should hold independent opinions and judgments. In 1 Corinthians 1: 10 it says,
  • “that ye may be perfectly united in the same mind” – that is the thinking faculty – “and in the same opinion”.

• In chapter 2: 16 it says,
  • “we have the mind of Christ”,

• the same word. So that there should be no divergence as to our thoughts about the truth.

• We have different capacities of apprehension; but there is no idea in Scripture of independency of thought.

• We are to move in the current of the Spirit as to the truth, knowing what He is going on with, and being fully in it.

• That is involved in being baptised with – or ‘in’ – the Holy Spirit and fire. Unless this is recognised there will be no virgin daughter of Zion.

• The basis of virgin response to Christ is our being merged in the Spirit, and moving together bodywise.
  • There will be no response to Christ in virgin character without it, and no assembly response in praise to God.

• Ecclesiastical independency is a dreadful thing; it is utterly destructive of all that is for Christ and for God in the assembly, and we urgently need to be saved from it.

Then we also need to be saved from our sins in connection with the chaff, which we are apt to be proud of.

• Chaff may look well, but it is of no use. It brings in discord amongst brethren, personal feelings and so on, but it is to be burned with fire unquenchable.

• We are to be amenable to the fire, because we dwell with the consuming fire; and we have to accept it
  • if we are to see the King in His beauty, and to see Jerusalem a quiet habitation.

• The Song of Songs refers to “Flames of Jah”.

But then, in Matthew 3 there was a remnant accepting things, and the Lord identified Himself with that remnant. He was saluted as the Beloved –

• “This is my beloved Son”.

• The grace of the Beloved was manifested in that He identified Himself fully with this repentant remnant who were prepared to be saved from their sins.

• It is our sins which separate between us and our God; but baptism, properly understood separates us from our sins,
  • and the Lord’s operations would separate us from our sins practically.

• He identified Himself with the remnant, and, in principle, they were brought into the gain of Emmanuel, God with us.

• The Spirit descended as a dove upon Him, and the Father’s voice was heard. It was a manifestation of the Holy Trinity.

We proceed now to what is positive as regards the personnel of the assembly, the assembly itself, however, being in mind, as in chapter 5: 14,

• “Ye are the light of the world: a city situated on the top of a mountain cannot be hid;”

• and later the Lord speaks of the city of the great king.

• The assembly is in mind, and the Lord delineates the features which alone are proper to the personnel of the assembly, to those who are the citizens of the city of the great king.

• These features are seen in the King Himself; and though we may not think so, they indicate the way of happiness, because the word “blessed” here means “happy”.

• It is the way of happiness, because the city of God is the happiest of places, and if we are marked by these features we qualify practically for it.

• And so here the culmination is in the sons of God. Those who form the assembly are sons of God. Sonship is presented here as a gift, as in Galatians,
  • “that we might receive sonship”; but here it says,

  • “called sons of God”;

• that is those marked by these features qualify to be called the sons of God. Through moral features they qualify to be called sons of God.

• But in chapter 11, in the realm of revelation, they are viewed as babes;
  • in chapter 12, in the realm of service doing the will of His Father, they are viewed as the brother and sister and mother;

  • and in chapter 13 there is an indication, in the treasure and the pearl, of the preciousness to the Lord both of the personnel and of the vessel.

• I wondered whether these remarks might help us to move together in what is in mind.

Ques. Why do you think that the features in chapter 5 refer almost exclusively to what is inward, and not to outward activities? Does that relate to the inward formation of the personnel?

G.R.C. I think it is in taking character from the King.

• “We all, looking on the glory of the Lord with unveiled face, are transformed according to the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Lord the Spirit”, 2 Corinthians 3: 18.

• That applies to these moral features as well as to other settings, do you not think?

Rem. Yes, and that can apply to all of us, sisters as well as brothers, because all can cultivate what is inward. We may not be privileged to do much of what is outward.

G.R.C. Sisters are very important in that connection, as Philippians shows.

• The apostle was concerned about strife between two sisters; there may be much chaff with sisters as well as with brothers;
  • but these beatitudes give the features of the wheat as free from the chaff.

• While they are inward, yet they find outward expression. You can soon tell whether you are in the presence of a person who is poor in spirit.

• Such a person is despised in the world, but those who are spiritual delight to be in the presence of such an one. You find rest there.

• All these features should mark us in matters of assembly administration. The city has that in mind.

• Are these features in evidence in the way matters are handled? If these features are marking us all, things will be settled very quickly.

Ques. The mourners will be comforted very quickly, will they not?

G.R.C. That is just what I think. At the present time, in some localities, there are difficulties which have extended over some years. They have become “open sores”.

• Isaiah refers at the outset to “wounds” and wheals, and open sores” Isaiah 1: 6.

• Such a condition is not in keeping with Emmanuel. It undermines the health of the whole body on earth. Such a condition should not continue; there should be healing.

• But how will healing come in? The persons who are capable of helping are those who are poor in spirit.

• We cannot approach these things in any way other than as poor in spirit and as mourning.

• And, as you say, if approached in this way surely we shall soon be comforted.

Rem. Paul says in Corinthians,

• “ye have not rather mourned”.

G.R.C. Very good. And then the meek! How important that these things should be approached in meekness,

• so that personal feelings do not intervene; issues so easily become clouded.

• Many issues came up in Numbers, but they were all cleared because Moses was never governed by personal feelings;
  • he was very meek above all men that were upon the face of the earth.

• He never resented what was said against him; he left his matters with God.

Ques. Is it important to see that none of these features and qualities in Matthew 5 can be measured according to man’s standard of values?

G.R.C. Quite so. We need the word of the cross to adjust our values; the word of the cross brings down all that the natural man admires, making way for the features we have here – the features of the King.

Rem. We should thus be encouraged to measure things according to what is spiritual, and not according to what may be characterising the world around us.

Ques. In the world, meekness is looked at as weakness; but when we think of Moses, the meekest man, he was by no means weak, was he?

G.R.C. He was not. It is a great mistake to think that meekness is weakness; meekness is strength, because God is with a meek man. The Lord says,

“I am meek, and lowly in heart”.

Ques. Does this link with Psalm 45: 4,

• “And in thy splendour ride prosperously, because of truth and meekness and righteousness: and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things”?

• I was thinking of truth and meekness.

G.R.C. I was impressed with that yesterday. Do you not think that the order is correct?

• We have to put truth first; that must come first; but then, the only way to stand for the truth is in meekness.

• The moment I allow anything personal to govern me, I am out of the conflict in the proper sense of the word; I am only damaging things.

• So that it is truth and meekness, then righteousness.

Rem. “The meek will he guide in judgment, and the meek will he teach his way”, Psalm 25: 9.

G.R.C. There is the same order here; first meekness, and then,

• “blessed they who hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled”.

Ques. Would the spirit of suffering suggested in this chapter, in the poor in spirit, the mourning, the hungering and thirsting, and then in the persecution and reproach, underlie the necessary approach to adjustment?

• I was thinking of the way, for instance, in Exodus 17, in which God met the great complaint on the part of Israel. At the striking of the rock He says,
  • “I will stand before thee there upon the rock on Horeb, and thou shalt strike the rock”.

• Do you think God Himself led the way in suffering, to show that there could be adjustment, and the way it could be secured?

G.R.C. The copper in scripture refers to the outshining of God in the way He has met evil at all cost to Himself. What unmeasured sufferings have been endured!

Ques. Does Leviticus 14 help, in the question of the cleansing of the house where there had been leprosy?

• You have the death of the bird over running water, referring to the sufferings of Christ, and the offering of Himself by the eternal Spirit.

• But then, in the cleansing of the house, the cedar wood, the hyssop and the scarlet are all brought in. Does that bear on these verses in Matthew?

G.R.C. That is excellent. I am glad of that suggestion as to Christ offering Himself by the eternal Spirit;

• and then, you mean that in the cedar wood and the hyssop and the scarlet, every feature of man’s glory is brought down?

Rem. And only those features, as seen perfectly in Jesus remain when the cleansing takes place.

G.R.C. You mean features of glory according to God?

Rem. Just so; true dignity, true meekness, and true moral glory in the King.

G.R.C. Very good. And so in Matthew 5 the Lord seems to be setting out abstractly the features of moral glory proper to the citizens of the city of God. No other features are compatible with God’s city.

Rem. At the end of Leviticus 15, which links on with this, it says,

• “This is the law for every sore of leprosy, and for the scale, and for the leprosy of garments, and of houses, and for the rising, and for the scab, and for the bright spot, to teach when there is uncleanness, and when it is putrified: this is the law of leprosy”, verse 54.

• I was thinking of the connecting word,
  • “He opened his mouth and taught them”.

• There is teaching in the chapter, is there not?

G.R.C. That is good. The Lord said,

• “Think not that I am come to make void the law or the prophets; I am not come to make void, but to fulfil” – or to fill full – verse 17.

• He has thus come to give a fulness to Leviticus.

• I used to regard the Sermon on the mount, so-called, as contrast; but I am not looking at it that way now; I am looking at it as the Lord giving fulness to the law.

• The righteous requirement of the law is
  • “fulfilled”, or filled full, “in us, who do not walk according to flesh but according to Spirit”.

• The Lord is not doing away with the law in this discourse; He is bringing in the fulness of it; He does not do away with it.
  • “Thou shalt not kill”

• – He brings in fulness saying that whosoever shall say to his brother, Fool, shall be subject to the penalty of the hell of fire.

• Again, for instance, as to adultery. He does not do away with
  • “Thou shalt not commit adultery”,

• He brings in fulness, saying,
  • “Everyone who looks upon a woman to lust after her, has already committed adultery with her in his heart”.

• Christianity is the fulness of everything, including the fulness of the law.

Ques. In Isaiah 57: 15 the divine dwelling is said to be, not only in the high and holy place, but

• “with him that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble and to revive the heart of the contrite ones”.

• Would that show the link between Emmanuel and the poor in spirit?

G.R.C. Very much so. God has come out from His seclusion in unapproachable light – while He ever remains there – to dwell with men; and that has to begin at the point you say.

• The first thing is to furnish what is morally suitable to the high and lofty One, and that verse indicates what is suited.
  • He dwells “in the high and holy place, and with him that is of a contrite and humble spirit”.

Ques. And the revival is what we are looking for in the way of the peace of Jerusalem, is it not? Reviving the heart and spirit of the contrite ones?

G.R.C. That is it. And so there is a glory attaching to the personnel of the assembly.

• Our brother has spoken of the glory of the King coming into view as leprosy is met; it is seen in the children whom God has given Him.
  • “Behold I” – He links Himself with them – “and the children that Jehovah hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel”, Isaiah 8: 18.

• People marked by these features are truly signs and wonders. They see God, and they are called the sons of God.

• They are called that; it is not simply that they receive sonship as a gift, but they are called that, because their moral features mark them out as sons of God.

Ques. Each one resembled the sons of a king.

• “And he said, They were my brethren, the sons of my mother”.

• Is that sonship testimonially, rather than in privilege according to purpose?

G.R.C. It is indeed sonship testimonially; the peacemakers are called sons of God. We are tested as to whether we are peacemakers.

• These things are progressive; if the other things are not marking us, we shall not be peacemakers.

• It is very easy to be warmongers; but, although we have to take up warfare, and meet evil, and all that is against the truth, a Christian is always characteristically a peacemaker.

• He engages in war, but it is in view of peace. David was engaged in war in view of a reign of peace under Solomon.

Ques. Is it of note that in relation to the feature of mourning, which comes to light in this gospel, we have the mother, Rachel, weeping for her children, and a theme of comfort comes in in Jeremiah,

• “thy children shall come again”, Jeremiah 51. 17?

• I am thinking particularly of the feminine feeling which comes into the testimony.

G.R.C. Very good. It brings the sisters so definitely into the matter. It includes us all, in a way, but it shows what a part the sisters may have,

• “Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted”.

• We have met sisters like that, those who have felt the condition in their locality so intensely that they would not be comforted; they have spent the night in tears.

• And in localities where such sisters are, issues become resolved.

Ques. Are these features in the seven beatitudes to be seen together in each person, and not found predominantly in one person?

• We are not to be predominantly meek, or predominantly hungering after righteousness; but all are to be found in balance in each of us.

G.R.C. Certainly. These features should be descriptive of each believer;

• and I do not think we can have one feature without the others;

• we must begin with poor in spirit; they are progressive.

• If we are poor in spirit, we shall be mourners; if we are poor in spirit and mourners, we shall be meek, and we shall hunger and thirst after righteousness, and so on.

Ques. Could one, who may have been disturbing the peace of Jerusalem, become a peacemaker by confessing his sins, with the grand objective in mind of keeping the peace, rather than disturbing it?

G.R.C. I would not deny him that place. One would give honour to anyone who acknowledges what he ought to acknowledge.

• Peter at Antioch was withstood to the face. He had been in the testimony longer than Paul; he had a great place in Jerusalem, it was no small test;
  • but Peter, no doubt, was poor in spirit, and he accepted the rebuke, and thus maintained the peace.

• But then, the one who rebuked him would be a peacemaker, too. He had to make war with what was wrong, but he had nothing against the person, no personal feeling.

• Paul also was poor in spirit, and a mourner, and meek. He hungered and thirsted after righteousness, so he had to make a stand, but he was merciful;
  • and he had no thought of taking advantage of Peter in order to add anything to himself, for he was pure in heart.

• And so Paul maintained the peace of Jerusalem. And similarly he did so when he went up to Jerusalem according to Acts 15.

• The skill with which Paul conducted himself throughout that occasion, keeping himself out of sight, and allowing Peter and James, the local men, to speak, all indicates the way of a peacemaker.

• He was prepared for war if necessary, but peace was his objective.

Rem. On the way up to Jerusalem, he spoke of the work of God, and caused great joy to all the brethren wherever he went. He did not say a word about the trouble.

G.R.C. That is a good word. Too often troubles tend to become the subject of our conversation.

Ques. Paul was like Christ. All the features referred to in the beatitudes found their perfect expression in the Lord Jesus Himself; and are they not formed in us as a result of contemplation of Christ?

G.R.C. Quite so – as seeing the King in His beauty.

Rem. That is a marvellous thought. It is thus not a matter of natural effort.

G.R.C. The Lord is the great Peacemaker; He is our peace, Who has made both one, and broken down the middle wall of partition; and by His cross, He has slain the enmity. Think of what it cost the Lord Jesus to make peace!

Ques. According to Colossians 1: 19,

• “in him all the fulness of the Godhead was pleased to dwell, and by him to reconcile all things to itself, having make peace by the blood of his cross”.

• Would that indicate that peace, whether basically in the cross of Christ, or locally, amongst believers, involves the pleasure of the Godhead, the Fulness having set Itself to work – we may reverently say – to make the conditions?

G.R.C. “God with us” really involves the Fulness, according to chapter 28: 19, which J.N.D. calls “the unfolded fulness of the Godhead”.

• If God were to be known amongst us thus, it involved, first of all, peace being made by the blood of His cross.

• In the light of this, cannot we seek to assume the role of peace-makers?

Ques. I expect I speak for many in saying that we would like to be peacemakers.

• I notice that in Genesis 44, Judah takes the blame, with a view to his brethren being set at peace with one another, and with the Lord, typically. Do you think there may be room for more of that spirit?

G.R.C. I do – each being prepared to take the guilt upon himself.

• The Lord, in making peace, has not done so at the expense of righteousness. Therefore the order of these verses is interesting.

• What is right must be maintained. We are to hunger and thirst after righteousness.

• But then there is mercy; blessed are the merciful; and then the pure in heart. All these things test us in conflict.

• Then the peace-makers. So that peace is to be based on righteousness. That is where skill is needed,
  • “The fruit of righteousness in peace is sown for them that make peace” James 3: 18.

Ques. Should the tears of Rachel be with us today?

G.R.C. I think they should. Let us encourage one another to weep in relation to the sorrows of the testimony; and especially the sisters. How much is effected through the unseen exercises of sisters!

Rem. There is a very interesting note in 2 Samuel 20: 19, where the woman in Abel says,

• “I am peaceable and faithful in Israel”.

• The words ‘peaceable’ and ‘faithful’ are both plural, but the word ‘I’, singular.

• She speaks, typically, as one who is conscious of what the assembly is, and thus she becomes influential.

G.R.C. Quite so.

Ques. In Isaiah 10: 24 God commits Himself to,

• “my people that dwellest in Zion”, and says,

• “his burden shall be taken away from off thy shoulder, and his yoke from off thy neck; and the yoke shall be destroyed because of the anointing”, verse 27.

• Does this refer to the high level on which Paul operated, so that the yoke of circumcision was lifted, because of the anointing?

G.R.C. That chapter is most interesting, because it describes how they came into the gain of Emmanuel, does it not?

• The yoke was destroyed because of the anointing; and then there is a hiatus, as though we must stop and think about that.

• Do not the features set out in the beatitudes secure the power and grace of the anointing amongst us? So that all that is contrary, if these features mark us, will be destroyed because of the anointing.

• And then the next section of Isaiah 10 is the final thing,
  • “he shaketh his hand against the mount of the daughter of Zion, the hill of Jerusalem”, verse 32.

• God has secured what He is after; there is the anointing, and the daughter of Zion and Jerusalem. When the enemy shakes his hand against the mount of the daughter of Zion, he is destroyed.

Ques. And is it important to see that in verse 26 the scripture goes back to Oreb, as if the Spirit is minded to go back to this thought of sonship in moral worth – not exactly in the place of purpose, but in ways of God here?

G.R.C. You refer to the scripture where Zebah and Zalmunna say to Gideon,

• “each one resembled the sons of a king” Judges 8: 18? That is very good.

Now I think we ought to move on to chapter 11, where we are in the sphere of revelation.

• The character which is suitable or comely in the sphere of revelation is that of babes. The things which are revealed are beyond the scope of the wise and prudent.

• No culture of the human mind would enable us to grasp one right thought of God, or of the things of God; so that the proper attitude in this setting, is that of babes.

• The Lord is praising the Father, the Lord of the heaven and of the earth, that He has hid these things from the wise and prudent, and has revealed them to babes.

• We are not fitted for our place in the assembly unless we apprehend things which can only be known by revelation.

Ques. Do the wise and prudent fall into Satan’s snare? “Is it even so that God has said?”

• ‘Ifs’ and ‘buts’ are raised, the fruit of the doubting, speculative mind, instead of lowly, happy absorption of the truth, as babes.

G.R.C. I am sure that is right. “Ye will be as God, knowing”, but then what do we know? We know good and evil, and have come under the power of the evil.

• But now we come to the sphere of revelation, where we are to know things, but all in pure grace on the part of the Father.

Rem. It is not only that the human mind cannot understand, but it is a deliberate act on the part of the Father to hide these things from the wise and prudent.

G.R.C. What a mercy that these precious things are hidden! Otherwise they would soon be desecrated.

• All that we value most is beyond the intrusion of the natural mind – a most comforting thing.

Rem. Nevertheless things are being revealed to persons;

• “and he to whom the Son may be pleased to reveal him”, verse 27.

G.R.C. Declaration is complete, whether anyone comes into it or not, as far as I see; but is not revelation a sovereign act to persons?

Rem. Surely! That is, the Lord retires, does He not, into the sovereignty of divine purpose? He is a model for us.

G.R.C. Yes. As we look round on christendom, and think about results, we may well labour and be burdened. The Lord says,

• “Come to me all ye who labour and are burdened”.

• He had laboured, and had reproached the cities in which most of His works of power had taken place, because they had not repented; there were no results.

• But He retires into the sovereign grace of the Father. Because the Father was operating, there would be results; the Father would see to it.

• The Father is going to have full results; He is going to fill heaven and earth with families, and as the result of
  • sovereign operations which are outside the scope of man’s responsibility, although the subjects of them are brought to own their responsibility.

• The Father’s operations will secure full results, and so the Lord says,
  • “Come to me all ye who labour and are burdened, and I will give you rest”.

• We are to find our rest where He found His – in the Father, and in the assurance that the Father will bring to pass full results.

Ques. Would you say a little more about revelation, because it says here,

• “hast revealed them to babes”, and then presently, “no one knows the Son but the Father, nor does anyone know the Father, but the Son, and he to whom the Son may be pleased to reveal Him”.

• How are we to understand that? Does it mean that the Son is pleased now to carry on the service of revelation sovereignly, where the Father has already begun? Does it become a fuller and deeper thing?

G.R.C. The Father reveals things, and it is a great thing that things should be revealed.

• The prayer in Ephesians 3, for instance, not only involves the Person of the Christ dwelling in our hearts by faith, but the apprehension of all the scene of which He is the centre.

• The Father reveals things, but the Son reveals the Father. Both are most important in their place.

• The Father reveals things. He would give us an impression of the whole setting in which He has placed His Christ.
  • “All things have been delivered to me by my Father”.

• The Father would give us an impression of the whole scene which centres in the Son. But the Son reveals the Father.

Ques. “He to whom the Son may be pleased to reveal him”. Is that divine sovereignty?

G.R.C. It is. The word translated ‘pleased’ is the will of sovereignty.

Ques. Is the revelation of the Father by the Son a present activity? Or is it something completed into which we are brought?

G.R.C. I think this must be continuous. We know the Father in the Son; the Father’s glories shine in the Son,

• but not everybody who hears the testimony of Christ apprehends the Father.

• It says, “he to whom the Son may be pleased to reveal him”.

• This is surely an activity which continues.

Rem. I had the same thought.

Ques. Would desire, on our part, for the knowledge of the Father enter into this; and would the Son’s sovereignty be exercised in favour of one who had such desire?

G.R.C. The side of desire is not stressed here, but the sovereignty of the Person who reveals, and the receptive state of the persons.

• A babe is receptive, and has no preconceived notions. A babe is prepared to receive what is presented to it; and that should be our attitude relative to what the Father reveals, and to what the Son reveals.

Rem. The apostle prays, in Ephesians 1: 17,

• that “the Father of glory, would give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the full knowledge of him”.

G.R.C. The Spirit was not yet given at this time. Emmanuel was known when the Lord was on earth in His own Person.

• Those affected by contact with Him would receive impressions of the Father, and see the manifest power of the Spirit operating in the Son. God was there.

• But now Jesus is glorified, and the Spirit is here, so that the Person we are immediately in contact with, at the present time, is the Spirit.

Ques. Philip says,

• “Lord, shew us the Father and it suffices us. Jesus says to him, Am I so long with you, and thou hast not known me, Philip? He that has seen me has seen the Father; and how sayest thou, Shew us the Father?”

• Do you think that emphasises the fact that we really learn the Father, in His glories, in the Son?

G.R.C. So that we must always maintain an objective view of the Son.

• We may limit the Lord, in our thoughts, to what He is on our side;
  • but, it seems to me, once the Lord has come in, and we see Him, we must never take our eyes off Him, right through the service.

• It is a question of looking upon the glory of the Lord in its various features;
  • so that, as the service proceeds, we see the Father’s glories shining, and we abide in the Son and in the Father; that is,

  • both are objectively before us, although the Father is the Object of our worship and praise.

• Then, as we proceed to the worship of God, as such, the Son is still before us, for He is the effulgence of God’s glory and the expression of His substance.

• Also, God’s majesty as the King of the ages will ever be seen, as I understand it, in the Son.

Ques. Do you mean, that while we would, to use your word, keep our eyes upon the Son, that would not mean that we are always speaking to the Son, but it liberates us to speak to the Father?

G.R.C. Exactly. And also to speak to God as God.

Rem. In John 16, the Lord said about the Spirit,

• “He shall receive of mine, and shall announce it to you. All things that the Father has are mine”.

G.R.C. Quite so, and if we give the Spirit His place we shall know the things of the Son and of the Father.

Rem. Genesis 24 is very interesting. It is said that Abraham gave everything to Isaac, and then it says of the servant,

• “all the treasure of his master was under his hand”.

• In that particular verse the word ‘master’ is in the plural – the treasure of his masters was under his hand.

G.R.C. Well, there is no property, speaking reverently, exclusive to the Father or the Son.

• “All things that the Father has are mine”.

• The Lord says to the Father,
  • “all that is mine is thine, and all that is thine mine”.

Ques. Are the words, “learn from me”, in verse 29 important? After saying

• “nor does anyone know the Father but the Son, and he to whom the Son may be pleased to reveal him”, the Lord says,

• “Come to me” and then, “learn from me”.

• There is no limit to what we may learn from Him, is there?

G.R.C. That bears on what we have been saying, that the expression of God to us, and of perfect manhood towards God, are in the Son, and so everything depends on coming to Him.

• He is the Centre of the system. All divine light shines in Him.

Rem. And He said,

• “I am meek and lowly in heart”;

• He draws us to His heart.

G.R.C. Very good.

Ques. And does the inscrutability of the Son, the Father alone being capable of comprehending His Person, give a lustre and glory to the whole setting?

G.R.C. It does. Who but a Person of the Godhead could say,

• “Come to me”,

• thus making Himself the Centre? No mere man could be the Centre.

• J.N.D. says, “God, through grace, I know; man, too, I know, in a certain sense; but God become a man is beyond all – even my spiritual thoughts. Be it so; it is infinite grace, and I can adore. I am sure for my soul’s blessing He is both”, J.N.D. C.W. 9: 299-300.

Rem. In Psalm 8 here, the babes and sucklings express their appreciation of the excellence of the Name in all the earth. Christ exalted and glorified would be in mind.

G.R.C. Yes. The Lord is praising in chapter 11, and in chapter 21 the babes and sucklings are praising. Praise is a great testimony; it silences the enemy.

• “Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou established praise because of thine adversaries”, Psalm 8: 2.

Then the personnel of the assembly need the Lord’s attention in the threshing floor to free them from the chaff.

• The features of the wheat are seen in the seven beatitudes, which end with
  • “Blessed the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God”.

• The personnel of the assembly are to take character from the King; they are sons of God in the testimonial position, having the other qualities mentioned, but ending with the peacemakers.

• They are to know how to make peace based on righteousness. The work of righteousness is peace, and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.

In chapter 11 the babes are the same persons. As in the sphere of revelation they are dependent and receptive.

• The Father reveals things to them, and the Son reveals the Father, and He invites to Himself as the Centre of the great system and the One in whom the Father’s glories shine.

• In chapter 12, He refers to them in the sphere of service as,
  • “my brother and sister and mother”;

• and in chapter 13 to their preciousness to Him as the treasure.

• The next parable shows that those who form the treasure merge in the pearl of great price; so that again we have first the personnel and then the assembly.

• The last parable shows the way they are secured in local companies, the good fish being gathered into vessels.

In the passages now read, the glory of the assembly is brought before us in chapter 16, and the glory of the personnel in the beginning of chapter 17; and in between there is the adjustment of Peter.

• The setting in which this glorious teaching is introduced is to be noted.

• In chapter 16: 4 it says that He left them – the Pharisees and Sadducees – and the note says it means, “to leave absolutely”.

• He left the wicked and adulterous generation, and warned the disciples to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

• Then He went away into the parts of Caesarea-Philippi on the remote border of the land.

• So that the setting is in complete separation from all that is religious according to man, and is governed by the warning as to leaven.

• The leaven of the Pharisees is hypocrisy, as we are told elsewhere; and the leaven of the Sadducees, orthodoxy with unbelief.

• But having come to the parts of Caesarea-Philippi, a scene is unfolded which is marked by spiritual emotions, which could not be set free in any other setting – spiritual emotions, proper to the assembly.

Rem. In chapter 17 we have, “while they abode in Galilee”. Are things unfolded in that position?

G.R.C. It is a great mercy to have been brought into the path of separation, apart from anything which men account of importance religiously.

• In chapter 11 the Lord retires, and finds His rest in the Father and His sovereign activities; and so He says, “Come to me”, assured that there will be those who come.

• On the same principle we can continue our labours, even though the apparent results are small, assured that there will be results, because the Father is working. There will be those who come to Christ.

Ques. You were referring to emotions. Were you thinking of the ejaculatory character of the Lord’s answer in verse 17, for instance, “Blessed art thou”, indicating the Lord’s own feelings?

G.R.C. Yes I was. The emphatic pronouns stress the emotions. He says,

• “But ye, who do ye say that I am?”

• The Lord was looking for some kind of response which would be characteristic of the assembly,
  • “And Simon Peter answering said, Thou”

• – an emphatic pronoun which, I believe, denotes on the part of Simon Peter, a spirit of worship –
  • “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answering said to him, Blessed art thou, Simon-Barjona, for flesh and blood has not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in the heavens”, and then,

  • “I also, I say unto thee that thou” – another emphatic pronoun – “thou art Peter”,

• as though the Lord’s holy emotions were stirred as this kind of response came to light as the result of the Father’s revelation.

Ques. Do you think the Pharisees and the Sadducees are shewn throughout the gospel to be without feeling of any kind, and that we are to beware of that in regard of these holy matters?

G.R.C. I am sure that if we allow the leaven, which the Lord warns us against, it will destroy all true spiritual emotions in the assembly.

Ques. Would it be right to say that the Lord now has a vessel in which His holy emotions Godward are to find expression –

• “In the midst of the assembly will I sing thy praises”;

• and further that that vessel should be replete in His hand administratively?

• The city is said to have the glory of God. Is it to be effective here for God in the holy emotions of Jesus Himself?

G.R.C. How much entered into the Lord’s mind and heart at this time! He Himself was now apprehended, appreciated and responded to, as the Christ, the Son of the living God.

• It is this apprehension and appreciation which qualifies persons to be living stones in the great structure.

• And then, as you say, He would have in mind all that the assembly was to be for His God, both in praise Godward and in administration manward.

Ques. Why does Matthew present

• “the Son of the living God”?

G.R.C. Is it not over against the deadness of Judaism and human religion?

• It is the Son of the living God, and I think it indicates that praise is primarily in mind.

• The assembly is also the vessel of administration, but the primary thing in Psalm 22 is,
  • “Thou that dwellest amid the praises of Israel”.

• Administration will be right if the praises are secured.

Rem. In that regard, one has been thinking of the references to virgin voices – see “Alamoth” in the heading of Psalm 46 – as referring to the development of pure feelings and emotions.

• Virgin voices are mentioned several times in the scriptures. I wondered if Peter’s voice is really the expression of a virgin voice?

G.R.C. It is. Psalm 45 is the Song of the Beloved – the King; and then Psalm 46 is to the chief musician – of the sons of Korah, upon Alamoth, a song. So that Psalm 46 is a song on virgin voices.

Rem. In Psalm 68: 24 and 25,

• “They have seen thy goings, O God, the goings of my God, my king, in the sanctuary. The singers went before, the players on stringed instruments after, in the midst of maidens” –

• it is the same wording, Alamoth – “playing on tabrets”.

G.R.C. So that you think the idea of virginity runs right through the service?

Rem. I thought so. And does not 2 Corinthians 11: 2 show that the thought of virginity belongs to the whole local company – men as well as women? Paul says,

• “I have espoused you unto one man, to present you a chaste virgin to Christ”.

G.R.C. It does. The hundred and forty-four thousand in Revelation 14: 4 are also said to be virgins.

Rem. One was thinking of that. They follow the Lamb withersoever He goes.

G.R.C. It is a question of chastity – pure affections for Christ, and thus for God.

Ques. Are you suggesting that the apprehension of the Person of Christ here is in keeping with virgin affections?

• In chapter 13 a good deal is said about understanding, and the Lord challenges the understanding of the disciples in this chapter. In chapter 13 He said,
  • “Have ye understood all these things?”

• I wondered whether discipleship involves a course of instruction, gradually building up our intelligent understanding; so that
  • when the Lord speaks, as He does here, while it entails revelation it also means that He had before Him some formed material. Is that right?

G.R.C. I think so. Chapter 13 is very important,

• “Have ye understood all these things?”

• It covers the whole chapter, but would especially, no doubt, bear on the treasure and the pearl.

• The Lord has a treasure here, and, for the joy of it, He sells all that He has to buy that field. Then there is the completed matter, the pearl.
  • “He went and sold all whatever he had and bought it”.

• How important to understand what the treasure is to Christ, that is, what such persons as Peter are to Christ; and then what the pearl is to Christ.

Ques. In that connection, why do you think that the reference here is to Simon-Barjona?

G.R.C. It is all to help the virgin daughter of Zion. Zion is the effectuation of divine purpose on the basis of sovereign mercy.

• Why should a man like Simon-Barjona be brought into such favour? Who was he? A Galilean fisherman, who later, when denying the Lord, cursed and swore! Why should he be in this matter?
  • “Flesh and blood has not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in the heavens”.

• How we can thank God that the trees have all been cut down; and that the choice is not based on natural selection, but on the basis of divine operations in sovereign love and grace!

Ques. And does the Lord take delight in each of the personnel of the assembly? He says,

• “Blessed art thou!”

G.R.C. What a marvellous thing!

• “Blessed art thou, Simon-Barjona”!

• Simon-Barjona merited no blessing at all. He is like Paul who says he
  • “before was a blasphemer and persecutor, and an insolent overbearing man”.

• What right had Paul to be in the assembly? He said,
  • “mercy was shewn me”;

• and Simon-Barjona received mercy. I believe a sense of mercy enters into the constitution of the virgin daughter of Zion; it helps us as to virgin affections.

Rem. The only women mentioned in the genealogy in Matthew 1 are those who are objects of outstanding mercy. In the normal way they would not have been in the royal line.

G.R.C. Very good. Another woman is introduced in chapter 15: 26, where the Lord says,

• “It is not well to take the bread of the children and cast it to the dogs. But she said, Yea, Lord; for even the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from the table of their masters. Then Jesus answering said to her, O woman, thy faith is great. Be it to thee as thou desirest”.

• That is the kind of material which the Lord delights to bring into the assembly – those who recognise their utter nothingness.

Ques. Zion stands for sovereign mercy, does it not?

• “This one and that one was born in her”, Psalm 87: 5.

• Is there variety in unity, and mutuality, too, in the work? It is the glory of Christ to put a unique divinely given stamp upon each one,
  • and yet it is among such that true mutuality is found to work out the great thoughts of God.

G.R.C. Is that the way the treasure merges in the pearl? The treasure is distinctive; Simon-Barjona became a distinctive person through the sovereign work of God.

• But then there is the merging, so that we have one pearl of great value.

Ques. Following the treasure and the pearl is the parable of the seyne. Is it not essential that, in evangelical ardour and work, what is good should be found and put into vessels? This is not being done in current popular evangelisation.

G.R.C. Exactly. That parable refers to the way things have to be worked out in local companies. The vessels would refer to the local companies, and it is a question of gathering the good into vessels.

Ques. Referring back to the parable of the sower, it is said of the seed which is caught away that they understood not,

• but the good ground which brings forth the fruit is spoken of as he who hears and understands the word. Is not understanding a most essential thing?

G.R.C. It is most important. There is great ignorance in christendom, terrible ignorance; and it means that the truth of the assembly is never arrived at, and thus the Lord is denied His portion, and God His. Understanding is essential.

Ques. Does that lead to accuracy in the truth,

• “For this reason every scribe discipled to the kingdom of the heavens”?

• It is said of Ezra that he was a scribe and a priest. Those two things make for right feelings and emotions, and also right speaking.

• The scribe would insist that everything which is said and done should be accurate.

G.R.C. Accuracy is of the greatest importance if we are to come into the gain of what the assembly is as a vessel of response to Christ and to God.

Ques. Are emotions suggested in Psalm 45 – the welling up of the heart, and then the pen of a ready writer, suggesting accuracy?

G.R.C. So that the fact that our emotions are stirred to the very depths should not make us inaccurate;

• we should not be carried away by feelings in such a manner as to cease to be accurate.

Ques. Could I ask what you understand the Lord to mean when He speaks of “this rock”.

G.R.C. I think it refers to the revelation of Himself in the souls of the saints.

• It is Himself, but known through the Father’s revelation to Peter, and souls are brought into it in the power of the Spirit.

• The truth expressed in Peter’s confession is just what is needed in the souls of those who form the assembly.
  • First they need to apprehend Jesus as the Christ, and then to apprehend Him as the Son of the living God.

• The apprehension of Him in those two ways qualifies for part in the assembly.

Rem. The assembly cannot be overthrown by hades gates.

G.R.C. Christ, the Son of the living God, cannot be overthrown;

• and the Father’s revelation of Him to Peter, which is made good to the hearts of His saints by the Spirit, cannot be overthrown.

• It is on this rock the Lord builds His assembly.

Ques. In 2 Chronicles 3: 1 it says that,

• “Solomon began to build … on mount Moriah, where he appeared to David his father, in the place that David had prepared in the threshing-floor of Ornan the Jebusite”.

• Would it be there that the son, that is Solomon, began to build in a place where genuine material had been prepared? David had suffered there, and had come to an end of himself.

G.R.C. And did not the Lord handle Peter in that way? Was he not the subject of the Lord’s work in the threshing-floor?

Rem. I think so. Here he is immediately free to bring out what the Father had revealed to him.

Ques. Would you mind amplifying what you had in mind as to the Christ, the Son of the living God?

G.R.C. I think the assembly stands related to the Christ.

• “I speak”, Paul says, “as to Christ, and as to the assembly”.

• It is fundamental that the assembly has virgin affections for Christ; she is His complement.

• But then, she is also the vessel of praise to God, which is specially in mind here; and so he goes on to say,
  • “the Son of the living God”.

• That is, if the Lord secures the assembly in virgin affections for Himself, it is all in view of using that vessel in the praises of His God.

• He is the Son of the living God; His thoughts are always in the direction of His God.

• The saints are called, “sons of the living God” Romans 9: 26. In their measure they correspond with Him.

Ques. Might there be a link with the word,

• “Jesus answering said”, here,

• and in chapter 11: 25, where praise is referred to?

G.R.C. I think in chapter 11 He is answering the conditions of darkness which were around.

• In His perfect manhood He meets, in the spirit of praise, what was outwardly the darkest of situations.

• But I think here the Lord is moved; His holy emotions are brought into play as Peter says, with emphasis on the ‘thou’,
  • “thou art the Christ”.

• That is what He had been waiting to hear, and now it was out;
  • “thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God”.

• He had been handling this material, and the point had arrived when the material was ready for the Father’s revelation;
  • and the Father had revealed the truth to Simon-Barjona in such a manner that he could express it in the spirit of worship.

• I believe Peter is a worshipper of Christ here, and it is as such that we come into the assembly in a vital way.
  • And so it says, “Jesus answering said to him, Blessed art thou, Simon-Barjona”;

• and no doubt we may say His heart was also moved towards His Father, as He said,
  • “flesh and blood has not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in the heavens”. Then He said,

  • “I also, I say unto thee, thou art Peter”.

• That is the reciprocal side. He had named the Lord; now the Lord was naming him, “thou art Peter”.

• There was exultant joy in the heart of the Lord, for He saw assembly material;
  • “thou art Peter, and on this rock I will build my assembly”.

• Here was a living stone, one of the sons of the living God, true assembly material from the standpoint of the praise of the living God.

Rem. And when the best comes out, the gates of Hades are immediately referred to as doing everything within their power to thwart and overthrow what God had wrought.

G.R.C. Yes. The gates of Hades would refer to the calculated, planned attacks of Satan to silence praise in the assembly.

• He has succeeded in Zion; praise is silent in Zion, but he can never succeed in the assembly.

• I think we can see the force of that from Hezekiah’s remarks in Isaiah, where he says,
  • “For not Sheol shall praise thee … they that go down into the pit do not hope for thy truth. The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I this day”.

• Peter was a living stone, one of the sons of the living God, and praise in the vessel which is composed of such can never be silenced.

Ques. By way of extension, he cannot silence the babes and sucklings.

• Is that the earnest that there will be recurring generations in the assembly wherewith to swell the service of God?

G.R.C. That is very fine, because, far from silencing the babes and sucklings, they silence the enemy.

• “Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou established praise, because of thine adversaries, to still the enemy and the avenger”.

• Praise, in the spirit of triumph, in the face of all the enemy’s opposition, is a most effective weapon; the enemy has nothing to say in the presence of it.

Ques. In speaking of emphatic pronouns, would you say a word on the Lord using it of Himself, “and I also”. Is that Emmanuel?

G.R.C. It is. It would suggest, do you think, His equality with the Father?

Rem. “I also, I say unto thee” – another Divine Person speaking.

G.R.C. “He who has built all things is God”,

• we are told in Hebrews; and the builder is the Son. The Lord Jesus says,
  • “on this rock I will build my assembly”.

Ques. Is it necessary for us always to bear in mind that the assembly first comes into view here in the setting of what is due to Christ, and what is due to God? Is that always what the assembly is, characteristically?

G.R.C. There are three great ministries, as I understand it.

1. There is the declaration of God. The declaration of God, and of His name, is by the Lord Himself; He is the Declarer. No apostle could be the declarer.

   The Son has declared God, and declared His name.

2. Secondly, there is the ministry of the gospel to bring men into the gain of the declaration, so that they might know God as declared.

3. Finally, there is the ministry of the assembly, which is the line of response.

   The ministry of the assembly brings to pass the vessel in which there is adequate response to Christ, and adequate response to God as declared.

Ques. Would you say what distinction there is between what we are considering now, and Paul’s word as to God being

• “pleased to reveal His Son in me”?

G.R.C. I think that was to equip Paul in his gospel testimony. The ministry of the gospel includes sonship;

• and God was pleased to reveal His Son in Paul, so that sonship was set out in him. He was a living example of what he was preaching.

• But I think the revelation to Peter is in view of the assembly. It is more objective.
  • “Thou art the Christ”.

• Paul had this, of course, in full measure. It is a great thing to get an objective view of the greatness of Christ as Man.
  • He is the Christ, and He is the Son of the living God, and we are worshippers of Him.

Ques. Do we need John’s writings particularly to get this objective presentation? I wondered about the close of his gospel, where it says,

• “these things are written that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing ye might have life in his name”.

G.R.C. John presents the Christ in the early part of his gospel, and the Son of God later.

• Paul generally presents the truth in the reverse order.

• He begins with the Son of God, and ends with showing us the magnificence and glory of the office the Son of God holds as the Christ; Ephesians is full of the Christ.

• We need both John and Paul.

Ques. Do you think that, “the Son of the living God “, and the building upon that in the soul of Peter, and in the souls of the saints, is really the answer to all the attacks of Hades;

• and that, as this is livingly maintained, God has a warrant to leave saints here in spite of all the attacks?

• Has He not a certain pleasure in leaving saints here in the midst of darkening conditions, if there is reality, and genuineness, and virgin affections for Christ?

• Nevertheless, Hades gates are perhaps nearer than we sometimes think!

G.R.C. They attack Peter immediately after this, do they not?

Rem. Yes. Peter comes under the shadow of darkness.

G.R.C. Therefore we have to maintain great vigilance, because, in moments of greatest privilege, we are liable to fall a prey to the enemy and his power.

• It is not beyond possibility that, however much we may serve the Lord, anyone of us may become a tool of Satan for the time being; and
  • the more esteemed the person is, the greater the damage he will do if this is not checked at once.

Ques. Are not the gates of Hades discovered and exposed in 2 Corinthians 11 where Paul speaks of Satan transforming himself into an angel of light, and his

• “ministers also transform themselves as ministers of righteousness whose end shall be according to their works”?

• In chapter 12 he refers to vital assembly material –
  • “I know a man in Christ”.

G.R.C. That is very good. We have constantly to keep in mind that Satan’s emissaries transform themselves as ministers of righteousness.

• Satan will not find much service for a man who has not any attractive features.

• The way he can best lead the saints astray, is by getting control, for the time being, of a leading brother. Peter was the leading brother.

Rem. What a contrast between,

• “fair appearance in the flesh”,

• which is so attractive to all of us, alas! and the stability and glory of,
  • “a man in Christ”,

• carried up as far as the third heaven.

G.R.C. Very true. As to Satan’s emissaries, one would not link that term with any brother in the normal way.

• But if Satan uses a man to turn Christians away, he will use a very plausible man, one who says things which sound very good.

• But the fact is, Satan may also obtain control of any brother, even most unexpectedly; and here he gets a point of vantage with Peter.

• No doubt his fellow disciples would consider his remark an excellent one.

Rem. The importance of our minds comes into the matter. Peter says in his epistle,

• “having girded up the loins of your mind”.

• The loins of his mind were not girt up here, were they?

G.R.C. “Thy mind is not on the things that are of God, but on the things that are of men”.

• The exhortation in the epistle shows that he had judged himself in that relation.

Rem. How important it is for us all!

G.R.C. We need to speak carefully, and beware, each one of us; for no one is exempt from

• the possibility of coming, momentarily at any rate, under the power of Satan;

• and the point is to check it at once. The Lord checked it at once, otherwise it would have done damage.

Ques. Do you think we are in the greatest danger when we have touched a very high point?

G.R.C. I do. There is danger, because of the love and esteem in which persons are held, of things not being checked at once,

• but the Lord gives us an example here. Peter was a leading brother, but the Lord checks him at once.

• Sometimes we let pass a remark which is not really true or right, because of the person who said it.

• Now the first of the apostles was saying something here, but it was not right; and the Lord did not let it pass. He checked it at once. In Leviticus 19: 15 it says,
  • “thou shalt not respect the person of the lowly, nor honour the person of the great” in matters of judgment.

• What the Lord had said about Peter earlier in the chapter indicates that, through divine grace, he was great; nevertheless the Lord does not pass over what he said here.

Ques. What would you say about the severity of the language the Lord uses?

• While recognising the uniqueness of anything the Lord might say, I was wondering whether the readiness to trace something to its source immediately saved Peter and saved the brethren.

G.R.C. That is just what I would think. The more straightforward and faithful we are, the more likely we are to save the brother.

Ques. The passage referred to in Leviticus goes on to touch that, does it not?

• “Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thy heart; thou shalt earnestly rebuke thy neighbour, lest thou bear sin on account of him” Leviticus 19: 17.

G.R.C. Just so. It is true love to do so. It says, “Thou shalt not hate thy brother”.

• Instead, in love, you rebuke him. The Lord was acting in perfect love here. He said,
  • “Get away behind me, Satan; thou art an offence to me”.

Rem. Paul also, when he rebuked Peter later, was acting in love.

G.R.C. Peter is a great example for us, because he was a man who failed more than once, but he was recovered quickly every time.

Ques. Is it not in that way that love covers a multitude of sins?

G.R.C. I think so. Peter’s recovery here is so rapid that he is on the mount in a few days.

Ques. How does what you are saying bear on ministry? If a thing is said which we feel is not right, should it be brought before the whole company at once?

G.R.C. I think so, if we feel it is something that is really contrary to the truth.

• We do not want to make a man an offender for a word, and we need to avoid contention.

• It needs spiritual discernment to detect when there is something which should be challenged.

• The Lord, no doubt, was the only One who discerned that Satan was there, and that he had obtained control of Peter for the time being, using even Peter’s affection for the Lord to get a foothold.

Ques. We might have said that after such a failure Peter could never be on the mount; but that is not the Lord’s way, is it?

G.R.C. It is not. Someone might have said to the Lord, It is only six or seven days ago that Thou saidst to Peter, Get away behind me, Satan; now Thou art taking him on to the mount, to the place of the greatest privilege.

Rem. There is nothing said at the time as to the result of the Lord’s rebuke, but his being taken up on to the mount would show that it had been effective.

• The less that need be said about it, the more thorough would be the vindication.

G.R.C. Complete recovery, yes!

Ques. Do you think that Peter learned that it was the activity of Satan?

• Did he not readily discern the activity of Satan with Ananias and Saphira, which was not discerned by others?

G.R.C. Very good. Peter discerned there what perhaps no one else did; so that our very failures, if we get right, are going to be a help to us, are they not?

Rem. And to the brethren.

G.R.C. Yes. “When once thou hast been restored, confirm thy brethren” Luke 22: 32.

Rem. Though Paul rebuked Peter, Peter speaks of him afterwards as our beloved brother Paul.

G.R.C. Yes. So it increased love between them.

Ques. Would the secret be in the next verse,

• “let him deny himself, and take up his cross”?

• Would that be the practical application of the cross, which is the end of the man who could say that kind of thing?

G.R.C. We need to take it to heart that it was from that time that Jesus began to show His disciples that He must go away to Jerusalem, and suffer many things, and be killed; and then

• He says, “If anyone desires to come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me” Matthew 16: 24.

• It means that, in the light of the assembly in its glory, it is not suitable that we should be here in any other character than as crucified to the world, and the world to us.

• We ought to be carrying our cross; but we are not doing that if we are allowing chaff, or any admiration for the trees which have been cut down.

• It seems to me this suggests a man who has been completely delivered.

Rem. I was noticing that it is his cross, as if Peter had made it his own.

Ques. The Lord takes this matter up so seriously with Peter, because what he said would have negated what he had just testified in verse 16.

• Is that the effort of the enemy now – to detract from what the Spirit is saying, His living voice for the moment?

G.R.C. Exactly. And the living voice for the moment was something very testing.

• What had been coming out earlier was something very exhilarating; but coupled with the exhilarating light of the glory of the assembly, there is this that goes with it,
  • that if we are to be in keeping with the glory of the assembly, we are to accept our cross here.

Ques. I would like to ask as to Colossians 2: 20-22,

• “If ye have died with Christ from the elements of the world”,

• and then the reference to the
  • “appearance of wisdom in voluntary worship, and humility”.

• Is it not significant that the voluntary worship and humility is with an appearance of wisdom?

• Is it not worship according to man’s own mind, and not according to the truth?

G.R.C. Quite so. I think that would link with the leaven of the Sadducees and Pharisees.

Ques. Will you give us a word on the opening verses of chapter 17?

G.R.C. They set out the glory of the personnel of the assembly. We have spoken of their moral features, but now we see them in glory.

• “Jesus takes with him Peter, and James, and John his brother, and brings them up into a high mountain apart. And he was transfigured before them. And his face shone as the sun, and his garments became white as the light; and lo, Moses and Elias appeared to them talking with him”.

• I think we also need to look at Peter’s own version, because he does not mention Moses and Elias.

• According to Matthew, Moses and Elias were talking with Him; but Peter, the recovered man, was so fully recovered, that he received a remarkable impression of this occasion for he speaks in 2 Peter 1: 16 of
  • “having been eye-witnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, such a voice being uttered to him by the excellent glory: This is my beloved Son, in whom I have found my delight; and this voice we heard uttered from heaven, being with him on the holy mountain”.

• That was the impression left in Peter’s soul as time went on, that they were with Him. It was not now Moses and Elias.

• Peter had suggested three tabernacles, but Moses and Elias were now completely gone from his vision; now it was Christ and “we” – the personnel of the assembly.

Rem. And he says the excellent glory, and the holy mountain, but he cannot find a word to express the voice,

• “such a voice … we heard … being with Him”.

Rem. And there is no “hear him” in his final description.

Rem. It is a collective matter. He does not say ‘which I heard’.

G.R.C. No, “which we heard” and the “we” is emphatic,

• “this voice we heard … being with him on the holy mount”.

• What a scene of glory that was – the Lord’s face shining as the sun!

• We have said already that all through the service we are to have our eye on Him, His face shining as the sun, and His garments white as the light; but then there is something else, there is the cloud of glory.

• A bright cloud overshadowed them. The Father is distinct in His personality, though He is expressed in the Son; and He has His own way of making His presence felt.

• A bright cloud overshadowed them. It is undefined, but we, through grace, know something of what it is to be made conscious of the Father’s presence.

• And then Peter says, such a voice – the Father’s voice.

Ques. Does the expression, “eyewitnesses of his majesty” refer to the place the Son has in the Deity in relation to the service of God?

G.R.C. Yes. His majesty.

Ques. Might this be before the apostle James when he was beheaded?

G.R.C. Quite so. How it would strengthen him for martyrdom!