Ques. Would you say something more about this pre-incarnate undertaking? It is remarkable and rare, if not unique.

G.R.C. Yes, it is remarkable. Mr. Darby dwells on it at some length in the Synopsis, and it would be difficult to improve upon his profound remarks there.

• He speaks of our being privileged to hear such a communication between Divine Persons in pre-incarnate condition, at a time
  • – if we can speak of time –

• when nothing in the way of obedience could have been imposed upon the One who was speaking.

• It is His own voluntary committal – “Lo, I come”. There is no thought of being sent.

Ques. Does the thought of committal enter into the place which Christ has taken in the economy

• in the arrangement into which Divine Persons have entered, as well as being seen in the excellence of the character of manhood which was set out in Him?

G.R.C. In this passage, when about to take the body prepared, He says,

• “Lo, I come”.

• It would never have been imposed upon Him to come in such a manner; it was His own action. So in Psalm 40 we read,
  • “Thou, O Jehovah my God, hast multiplied thy marvellous works, and thy thoughts toward us; they cannot be reckoned up in order unto thee”.

• He knew all that was written in the roll of the book – those thoughts conceived in purpose.
  • “In the volume of the book it is written of me”,

• and He commits Himself to all that is in that book to carry it through.
  • “Lo, I come … to do, O God, thy will”,

• and how vast the scope of that will is!

Ques. Do you look at what is written in the roll, or the volume of the book, as being a vow, speaking reverently, of this blessed Person in past eternity; but then the coming – His moving into the fulfilment of the vow?

G.R.C. What was written in the roll of the book relates to Divine purpose and counsel.

• God purposed, and counsel relates to the way the purpose is to be worked out or achieved. Would not what is in the roll of the book refer to those things?

• Then you have the great committal of Christ as coming into the world. I do not know that one can go back further than scripture does.

Rem. I was thinking of such a scripture as that in Peter,

• “a lamb … foreknown indeed before the foundation of the world”, 1 Peter 1: 19-20.

G.R.C. That is very interesting. It shows that redemption was not an afterthought. So that would enter, no doubt, into what was written in the roll of the book;

• and in the light of all that was written there the Lord says, “Lo, I come”.

Ques. What do you say about us being chosen in Him before the foundation of the world? I think it is in the same line, going back before anything was made – the counsel of God.

G.R.C. It would link thus with the volume of the book.

Rem. I was thinking as to this being somewhat coincidental with Christ’s coming into humanity, and

• as to whether the thought of committal entered into the act of a Divine Person in moving into the position and condition in which He would fulfil the will of God.

G.R.C. That is what I had in mind. Therefore, having come, He is the sent One.

• He came, if we may say so, by His own voluntary act and committal.

• He comes into a condition where He is committed to do the will of God, and therefore, as having come, He is under command in every detail.

• He whose prerogative had always been to command, came into a condition where He learned obedience from the things which He suffered.

Ques. Would the emphasis on this in Philippians 2: 7 help us – the three closely related statements, that

• He “emptied himself, taking a bondman’s form, taking his place in the likeness of men; and having been found in figure as a man”?

• The Spirit of God seems to give such emphasis at that point to what you are speaking of.

G.R.C. He does. It begins, “who, subsisting in the form of God”, and the passage does not say that He ever left the form of God. It says,

• “subsisting in the form of God, did not esteem it an object of rapine to be on an equality with God”;

• and that becomes evident in the gospel of John, where from time to time He claims equality with God, and it was not in any way an object of rapine for Him to do so.

• That gospel shows the truth of His Person so clearly. He could say,
  • “Before Abraham was, I am”, John 8: 58.

• That is the One who said,
  • “Lo, I come” and

  • “Thou hast prepared me a body”.

• The fact that He had come did not alter in any way the truth of His Person, so that at no time was it an object of rapine for Him to be on an equality with God.

Ques. Is this vow holy and unique, involving voluntary committal, in any way prompted by the fact that sacrifices and oblation, burnt-offering and sin-offering did not fully answer to the Divine pleasure and so it says,

• “To do thy good pleasure, my God”, Ps. 40: 8?

G.R.C. So as has been said, He emptied Himself, in the sense that while it had ever been His to command,

• He came of His own volition into a position where it was His at all times to obey.

• The gospel of John, which stresses His Person, also stressed His obedience.

• He speaks of Himself as the sent One, under the Father’s command as to all that He said and did. It is wonderful to think of Him thus:
  • “Lo, I come … to do, O God, thy will”!

• He never swerved from this; and what you are drawing attention to is most affecting, because in the committal He speaks of the four offerings by fire.

• It is most touching to think of the Lord quoting those four offerings by fire, and committing Himself to come in the body prepared in order that He Himself should be the antitype of them all.

• Let us keep the fire in our minds, because He knew what the fire was. No creature understands fully what the fire is.
  • “Our God is a consuming fire”, Hebrews 12: 29.

Ques. Would you say why it is that when the Spirit twice quotes this in Hebrews 10, “Lo, I come”,

• the first time He refers to the roll of the book, but the second time reference is not made to the roll of the book?

G.R.C. I think we can understand that in the second reference He is stressing the offerings, because the great point in Hebrews 10 is

• the efficacy of “the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all”.

• “Sacrifices and offerings and burnt-offerings and sacrifices for sin thou willedst not, neither tookest pleasure in (which are offered according to the law); then he said, Lo, I come to do thy will”.

• I think the repetition in Hebrews is to stress the sacrificial side, and this should affect our souls at a time like this,
  • as we think of the Lord committing Himself of His own volition to such a mission as that – that His body,

• He Himself, as we may say, should be the antitype of all four offerings by fire and that He should endure the fire in its full extent.

Ques. Does the thought of the body, from that point of view, involve a condition in which suffering was possible?

G.R.C. It is a wonderful thing to think of Divine Persons having experiences which they could not have had in the abstract relations of Deity.

• I think it would help us as to depth of soul if we contemplated more the experiences of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit relative to this matter. Psalm 40 opens,
  • “he hath put a new song in my mouth”.

• Think of the Lord being able to sing a song which He never could have sung before, because He had not been through the experiences.

• Though He were a Person of the Godhead, yet, as coming forth from death, He could sing a new song; God had put a new song in His mouth
  • because He had been through experiences which were not possible in abstract Deity.

• What experiences He had been through! You can understand the joy in His heart in coming forth from death when this mission was over.

• Think even of the relief if we might put it that way, that the fire had been borne, and that all that terrible matter was past,
  • and that now there was the joy of the fulfilment of what was in the roll of the book. No wonder a new song was put into His mouth!

Ques. Is it not affecting that He says,

• “On this account the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it again”, John 10: 17?

G.R.C. It is; and, while it is digressing a little, we should take account of the Father’s experiences.

• The Father has had experiences which would not have been possible apart from the incarnation.

• Indeed, the affections of the Father did not come into display until there was an Object adequate for them in manhood.

• Though Jesus was loved before the foundation of the world, He was now loved in a new condition and relationship.

• The first mention of the Father’s love in scripture, in type – indeed, the first mention of love at all – is in a setting of anguish. Think of the Father experiencing anguish!
  • “Take now thy son, thine only son, whom thou lovest, Isaac”, Genesis 22: 2.

  • It says, “Abraham … took the fire in his hand, and the knife”.

• Think of what experiences the Father passed through! These things should come into our souls.

Rem. We cannot fathom what it meant to the Father when Jesus prayed in Gethsemane.

G.R.C. No. And we may not read what we ought to read into the anguished cry of John 12,

• “Father, save me from this hour”, verse 27.

• It was a real matter. It was the anguished cry of His heart to the Father. What that meant to the Father! Also, as you say, in Gethsemane.

• It has been pointed out that the Father was the first at the tomb. What joy, and what relief, we might say, to the Father’s heart when all was over, and He could be first at the tomb to greet the Son –
  • “raised up from among the dead by the glory of the Father”, Romans 6: 4.

• Then, if we might pursue the matter a little further, think of the feelings of the Spirit. Who can measure those? There had been His part in the preparing of the body –
  • “The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest overshadow thee, wherefore the holy thing also which shall be born shall be called Son of God”, Luke 1: 35.

Ques. Is that how we understand the reference in Hebrews 9: 14, that the offering was by the eternal Spirit?

G.R.C. That is what was in my mind. I believe we should understand in that expression how deep were the feelings of the Spirit.

• His feelings had no doubt been profound in connection with the incarnation, and again at the baptism;

• but who can measure what it meant to the Spirit when the Lord Jesus, by the eternal Spirit, offered Himself without spot to God?

Rem. And He was quickened by the Spirit, so that the Spirit again would have part in the joy in the coming out of Christ from the dead, would He not?

G.R.C. He would. So that when it says,

• “he hath put a new song in my mouth”,

• the Lord Jesus, speaking with all reverence, can sing now in a way, which would not have been possible without those experiences.

• He sings now as Man, but as a Man who has had all those experiences.

• But then, coupled with the fact that He can sing a new song, there is the joy which we have referred to –
  • the joy of the Father’s heart, and the joy of the Holy Spirit, the answer to all the anguish which was involved in connection with this committal.

Ques. Why does it say, “he hath put a new song in my mouth”, but then He adds to it,

• “Praise unto our God”?

G.R.C. While in New Testament language we should keep to the words, “My God” and “your God” because He is unique, yet I think we can see that

• “Praise unto our God” would mean that He links others with Him in the singing. Is that so?

Ques. Would it link with Hebrews 2, the Lord singing in the midst of the assembly?

G.R.C. It would, and that is why we have read Psalm 22. We see there the cost which was involved in this great committal; we see the Lord in the very depths of suffering,

• “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”

• We see Him there as enduring the fire; but as the Psalm proceeds we see the immensity of the result, and the most exquisite results are in the midst of the assembly.

Ques. Is that why He says,

• “go to my brethren and say to them, I ascend to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God”, John 20: l7?

G.R.C. Yes. What immense results! When He was down here He could speak of Himself as,

• “the Son of Man who is in heaven”

• but now He was opening up a new place for man according to the counsels of God, and He says,
  • “I ascend to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God”

• – the God whom He had served right to the point of extremity when He cried,
  • “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”

Ques. Therefore do you think that the sufferings of Christ should never be absent from our thoughts and our appreciation? In order that the praises in the assembly might take place, the Lord Jesus had to go this way.

G.R.C. I do not think there will ever be height without depth. The Psalms, and especially this psalm, would give us depth; and the heading of the psalm,

• ‘Aijeleth-Shahar’ – ‘the hind of the morning’ – would relate to the assembly as moved in her soul by these sufferings,

• entering into the feelings and experiences, so far as the creature can, of Divine Persons. So that when He says,
  • “I will declare thy name”

• – the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit – it is a most feeling matter.

• The Father has been through anguish, the Spirit has entered into things with deep feelings, and the Son has been the great Sufferer.

• It surely gives wonderful fragrance to that name!

Rem. You are touching upon a subject we do not know much about. Our meditations do not often take this form. I am thankful you are taking it up in that way, but I should like to impress upon all to go into it fully. Our feelings are so often inadequate to our words.

G.R.C. There is so much shallowness with us all, and so little depth. We need, as you say, to give time to contemplate, and let the Spirit bring right feelings into our souls.

Ques. Do you think that what we are now considering would also add not only depth but also tone to the service? Would it serve to release these deep, holy, spiritual emotions which should find expression there?

G.R.C. I think it would ensure the drink-offering being added. It may often be missing.

• We bring our appreciation of Christ, and we may be able to express it very ably as to His death and His perfections, like the burnt-offering and the oblation;

• but what about the drink-offering? You cannot bring that unless you are really in the thing.

Ques. Numbers 28 refers to it as being strong drink, does it not? Is the idea of that that it is capable of moving the emotions of God and of the saints?

G.R.C. That is just it. It is a drink-offering of strong drink, and it means that the souls of the saints are stirred,

• and stirred in such a manner that it moves God, as we might say.

• God is not so much concerned about an able exposition, although the Spirit would help us in our words, but what gives value to the words are the deep emotions.

• We need to remember what deep emotions have marked, and do mark, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Ques. Do we see some of those emotions of the Holy Spirit when He came and took over the work of Christ, the deep-breathing being mentioned?

G.R.C. I think so – a sound as of hard breathing – Acts 2 – expressive, as it were, of the deep feelings of God.

Ques. Would you say that we get a glimpse into the counsels of God in Proverbs 8, where it says,

• “When there were no depths”, verse 24; and then it says,

• “my delights were with the sons of men”, verse 31.

• They were men after the order of Christ. We have been speaking about depths, but depths have come in in the working out of those counsels.

G.R.C. That is very interesting. There were purpose and counsel in a past eternity; but what depths were involved in carrying these through!

• ‘Through the depths Thy way has led’, as the hymn says.

Ques. Are the feelings, which are looked for in man, seen in the fact that in Genesis God breathed into man’s nostrils the breath of life, and it says,

• “and man became a living soul”, Genesis 2: 7?

• Does that link on with your suggestion as to our souls being moved?

G.R.C. That bears on the thought of representation in man. God has chosen man, that order of being, as His representative; and in order to equip and qualify him He,

• “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life”.

• And in the spiritual counterpart how wonderful it is – Christ Himself the image of God, the great Representative.

• But you can understand how necessary it is for these deep emotions to be developed in the saints if we are truly to represent God, now and in the future.

Ques. In that connection, would you say a word about Isaiah 53,

• “When thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin”, verse 10?

G.R.C. I think Isaiah 53 is intended to affect us much, because the soul is the seat of feelings, emotions and longings.

• We are apt to get our souls – our longings and ambitions – set on things here, but what comes about through the work of God is that,
  • “As the hart panteth after the water-brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God”, Psalm 42: 1.

• God becomes the great longing of the soul, so that you pant after God.

• But then the reference to the Lord’s soul is affecting, because we have been thinking of the offering of His body;
  • but the mention of His soul shows how deep the feelings were, which were involved in the offering of His body.

• His soul was made an offering for sin. Who can measure what that means? That passage ends with,
  • “he hath poured out his soul unto death”, verse 12.

• That is really the drink-offering in its fulness.

Ques. He speaks of His soul in Gethsemane, does He not?

G.R.C. “My soul is very sorrowful even unto death”, Matthew 26: 38,

• and then in John 12: 27, “Now is my soul troubled, and what shall I say?”

Ques. And prophetically in Psalm 16,

• “Thou my soul hast said to Jehovah, Thou art the Lord: my goodness extendeth not to thee; –

• To the saints that are on the earth, and to the excellent thou hast said, In them is all my delight”, verses 2-3.

• Does that stand emphatically before us?

G.R.C. Really, He is a Model for us there as to the way His soul, as a Man here, was moved toward God, and moved towards the saints.

Ques. Is Isaiah 42 interesting?

• “Behold my servant whom I uphold, mine elect in whom my soul delighteth!” Isaiah 42: 1.

G.R.C. It is remarkable that God Himself should speak of His soul –

• “mine elect in whom my soul delighteth!”

Ques. Does Peter’s word in Acts 2 bear on the matter, when he refers to,

• “having loosed the pains of death”, verse 24?

• He proceeds to quote Psalm 16 as to the Lord’s soul not being left in hades.

G.R.C. Quite so. Now in Psalm 22 we see the great results of this committal. Verse 25 says,

• “I will pay my vows before them that fear thee”.

• How fully the Lord has carried out all that He committed Himself to!
  • I am not suggesting that we should literally apply the idea of vows to Him, but it is the spirit of it here.

• How fully all that He undertook to do has been performed! And that is a great matter with vows, that we should not only make vows but pay them – perform them.

• The Lord has done it in a most complete way, so that there is praise in the midst of the assembly, praise by the seed of Jacob and the seed of Israel; and then,
  • “All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn unto Jehovah, and all the families of the nations shall worship before thee: For the kingdom is Jehovah’s, and he ruleth among the nations”, verse 27.

• This language applies only to earth, because the heavenly side of things was not then made known, but we should read heaven and earth into it.

• All things in heaven and earth will be headed up in the Christ, and not only the families of the nations, as in verse 27, but every family in heaven and on earth;
  • and verse 28 in its full sense we can even carry forward into the eternal day.

• There is not only the mediatorial kingdom in the world to come, but the eternal kingdom.

Ques. Is there a suggestion of this in John 17 where the Lord says,

• “I have completed the work which thou gavest me that I should do it”, verse 4?

• In that chapter He refers to the men whom the Father had given Him; and then He speaks of having been given authority over all flesh, His position of universal rule, and He refers to His own eternal glory which He will take on.

G.R.C. Quite so. So I think in the light of Christian revelation we can look right on in verse 28 to the kingdom in its final setting.

• There is the mediatorial kingdom of one thousand years, but He gives up the kingdom to Him who is God and Father, and the kingdom continues.

• He has secured the sway of God for eternity in a new heaven and a new earth’ wherein dwells righteousness.

Ques. Do you think Psalm 150 would come in there?

• “Hallelujah! Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in the firmament of his power”, verse 1;and then,

• and then, “Let everything that hath breath praise; Jah. Hallelujah!” verse 6.

• Does that involve the whole expanse in that way – the universe?

G.R.C. I think so, so that the last psalm is the great final result of this suffering, sacrificial work of Psalm 22. It is the great climax of praise, a psalm we could well afford to read over and over again – Psalm 150.

Ques. Is the pledge of the fulfilment of all this in Himself, as He is and where He is now? Do we not need to apprehend Him thus as setting out in Himself all that He has secured?

G.R.C. I am sure; we need to apprehend Him in the midst of the assembly. The Lord is to be before us as an Object all through the service.

• Even when the Father is the supreme Object, the Lord should still be an Object, because we abide in the Son and in the Father. We could not be in the Father if we were not in the Son.

• And in the final phase of the service where do we see God in His nature and character expressed? It is in Christ. And where is all the fulness of the Godhead dwelling? In Christ bodily.

Ques. Would you say something about the words,

• “My praise is from thee”, verse 25?

G.R.C. I do not know if I am right, but it seems to me that it is the Lord speaking to His God – that God sees to it that He – Christ – has His portion.

• In verse 22 He sees to it that His God has His portion,
  • “I will declare thy name unto my brethren”.

• But do you think verse 25 would mean that God sees to it that He has His portion, His praise?

Ques. Would the second chapter of Jonah bear on it,

• “But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that which I have vowed”, verse 9?

G.R.C. Yes, I think so. He is typical of Christ in certain ways.

• Another thing we should notice in Psalm 22, in view of our consideration yesterday, is the peace-offering.

• We are apt to limit this psalm to the sin-offering, although sin is not mentioned in it.

• It involves that, undoubtedly. It is in the fullest measure the sufferings of Christ at the cross. It concentrates on the cross.

• But we must not exclude the other offerings; His offering included all. So you get in verse 26,
  • “The meek shall eat and be satisfied”,

  • and verse 29, “All the fat ones of the earth shall eat and worship”.

• Through the offering of Christ, food is provided for all. The most precious food is the assembly’s portion,
  • “Take eat; this is my body”, Matthew 26: 26;

• but as we were seeing yesterday, the peace-offering provides food for all.

• Every clean person could eat of it; and so the eating comes into this psalm. Provision is made for us to eat and be satisfied.

Ques. Is that how we maintain true feelings? I was thinking of what it says as to keeping alive his own soul. Do we keep our feelings and our souls sensitive in relation to this as we appropriate the peace-offering?

G.R.C. That is very interesting. We need soul in our ministry and service. It says here,

• “he that cannot keep alive his own soul”;

• but it is a great thing that God has made provision so that our souls may be kept alive.

• We could not keep them alive if it had not been that the food is available.

Ques. “This is my body which is given for you”, Luke 22: 19. Is that the idea of food being for us?

G.R.C. That is it; that is like the peace-offering.

• Now Psalm 132, which brings forward David as a type of Christ, is very affecting.

• I thought, as we have dwelt already upon Christ Himself, we might now think of David as a model, as one who made a vow of a very exalted character, presumably in the early part of his life, because he says,
  • “we heard of it at Ephratah”.

Ques. Do you think there would be a link with the Lord’s words at twelve years old,

• “did ye not know that I ought to be occupied in my Father’s business?”, Luke 2: 49?

• What a glorious committal!

G.R.C. Yes. That might be translated,

• ‘Wist ye not that I must be wholly in the things of My Father?’

• The Lord is a wonderful Model there. What a joy it would be if we saw persons of twelve years of age moving in that way, wholly in the things of God!

Ques. Would the thought of the rest of God move us? David would not think of his own comfort, but sought a place for God.

G.R.C. That is just what I would think. We are apt to think so much about our own houses, are we not? “The tent of my house”, and, “the couch of my bed”.

• We give so much attention to our own comforts, everything must be right there, all the latest improvements! But what about improvements in God’s house?

• In Haggai God’s issue with the people was that they were dwelling in their wainscoted houses, while His house was lying waste; there was no place for Him.

• That is a solemn thing in those who had returned from captivity. Why should they be thinking about wainscoting – luxuries?

Ques. In this connection is the reference to Ephratah, the house of David’s father, and what David would have heard in that house?

G.R.C. I wondered whether it was what he heard as growing up at home,

• “We heard of it at Ephratah”,

• as though he made a resolve, there and then, that he would find a place for the ark.

Ques. What do you say about the verse,

• “How he swore unto Jehovah”?

• In answer to it it says,
  • “Jehovah hath sworn”.

• Is it connected with the thought of a vow?

G.R.C. I think so. God commits Himself by an oath; that is the way God irrevocably commits Himself.

• Even His promise, of course, is irrevocable, but then He adds the oath;

• and it is wonderful that while we have seen that we vow in the light of God’s unconditional committal to us in sovereign will and purpose,
  • yet on the other hand if we are prepared to vow, God will commit Himself afresh to us on the line of trustworthiness.

• It is one thing for God to have committed Himself to us on the line of sovereign will and purpose, and never to leave us, and then to bring about what He has in mind;
  • but it is another thing for God to be able to commit Himself to a man on the ground of trustworthiness;

• and I do not think God can really trust anyone who is not committed.

Ques. Would Timothy be one who, very early in his days, would have very little time for wainscoting?

• “Occupy thyself with these things; be wholly in them”, 1 Timothy 4:15.

G.R.C. He would be an example for young persons setting up home, not to get their minds unduly on that, nor to go in for what is unnecessary,

• because the greatest thing is, what kind of place has God in the locality?

• If we apply this to Christ, He has completely found a resting-place for God; that is a complete matter.

• But as applied to ourselves, what are the conditions for God like in my locality? I am sure we could all say that they could well be improved.

• There is much that might be done to make conditions for God and for Christ better in our localities.

Rem. Later in his life he said,

• “The house that is to be built for Jehovah must be exceedingly great in fame and in beauty in all lands”, 1 Chronicles 22: 5.

• David seems to have enlarged greatly in his thoughts as to what was suitable for God, and to have been greatly concerned that that should be provided.

Ques. Would Urijah be in line with David? He declined to go down to his house. The ark was before him, was it not?

G.R.C. Yes, he was in line with David when David was not in line with himself. Sometimes we are not in line with ourselves! Our general course may be right, but we drop from it.

Ques. Would you say a little more as to the change-over from the singular to the plural? I was noticing that the first five verses are in the singular; but then he says,

• “Behold, we heard of it at Ephratah, we found it in the fields of the wood”.

• I was thinking of those who are young. We often see them congregating together.

• Would you encourage them to speak about the ark and all these precious things which David and those with him evidently spoke about?

G.R.C. Yes. A man who is committed to God is influential. He is going to do certain things, but he can soon say ‘we’ because he influences others.

• One young man or woman in a locality who is really committed by vow to God,
  • whose supreme interest in life is to bring about better conditions for God in the locality,

• will exercise a great influence on the other young people.

Ques. So that it is within the reach of the youngest to improve these conditions, to which you refer?

G.R.C. That is it. So if one is set this way he will soon be able to say ‘we’; there will be others who will be influenced by him, like David’s mighty men.

• Young people, alas, are inclined to influence one another in the other direction, but if there are those on the line of David, they will be preserved.

• One on the line of David would be moving with both old and young. He might have the young especially in his mind, to influence them aright, but he would be moving with the whole.

• Timothy was to be a model of the believers, and he was to let no one despise his youth. He was to carry the older with him as well as the younger.

Ques. So has not the truth of the service of God opened out to us richly over the past fifty years on just this line,

• a lead being given us by spiritual and committed persons in going forward in the matter and opening it out to us,

• rather like David as the sweet psalmist of Israel whose influence was great?

G.R.C. I am sure of that. There is much to encourage with the young people, but one would earnestly desire that even

• these meetings might lead many a young one to commit himself irrevocably to God, for that is what is needed,

• especially now that the young people have to face moral corruption around in a way not known a generation or two ago.

Ques. Would it all depend upon the appreciation of Jehovah, the Mighty One of Jacob?

G.R.C. That is right; that should encourage every young person to commit himself.

• The “Mighty One of Jacob” is the One who is capable of taking care of him, both in bringing about all that He has in mind, and enabling him to carry out his vow.

Ques. Would you say that where there is full committal God will see to it that there is fruit, according to verse 11 of this psalm?

G.R.C. Very good, because Paul could speak of the fruit he had; he could speak of three of his sons – Timothy, Onesimus and Titus – very different men, but all of high quality.

Ques. Do you think you get a suggestion of what you are trying to help us on in Abraham. It says,

• “By faith he sojourned as a stranger in the land of promise as a foreign country, having dwelt in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise”, Hebrews 11: 9.

• Would there be the thought there of the old and the young being together –
  • “heirs with him of the same promise”?

• Jacob would get all the benefit of the experience of Abraham.

G.R.C. Quite so, and I would urge young people to keep near to their parents. Do not go off with other young people independently; keep near to your parents, bring them into everything – and the older brethren, too.

Ques. Would you say a word as to the “Mighty One”, not the Mighty God of Jacob? It is a remarkable expression, is it not?

• I wondered whether it suggested that there was an intimate knowledge of Jacob with the blessed God that no one else shared. It was his own delight and portion in God Himself.

G.R.C. Yes, Jacob’s own experience. But then we all ought to have an experience; God ought to be the Mighty One by experience with every one of us.

Rem. Ruth kept near to Naomi.

G.R.C. Quite so. You are thinking of Ruth’s committal to Naomi; what a vow she made in that sense, and what fruit in Obed, and later David!

Ques. Thinking of the committal of young people, is there not a special responsibility on those of us who are parents to seek to influence and guide our children in this direction?

G.R.C. I am sure there is. Jesse’s name means ‘Jah is’. You can understand what an influence Jesse had on David.

Rem. David gets an enlargement in this psalm. He says,

• “I will not give sleep to mine eyes … until I find out a place for Jehovah, habitations for the Mighty One of Jacob”.

• Then in verse 13 he has a sense of the sovereignty of God,
  • “For Jehovah hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his dwelling: This is my rest forever; here will I dwell, for I have desired it”.

G.R.C. I think it shows how God will crown devotion to His interests. If we devote ourselves to His interests, so that conditions for Him are improving all the time in our localities, we will get an ever-increasing impression of the greatness of Divine purpose.

Ques. Is not the Mighty One for us the Spirit? I was looking in Jude,

• “But to him that is able to keep you without stumbling, and to set you with exultation blameless before his glory”, verse 24.

• It is the Spirit.

G.R.C. You mean, in a special way, the Spirit is the One whose might we prove all along the line?

Rem. Jacob’s history specially brings out the Spirit.

In the chapter we have read the vow assumes special importance, for it would seem that

• the prosperity, at any time, of the testimony and of the saints as a whole depends on Nazariteship.

• Even one Nazarite has great influence. But then Jeremiah in his Lamentations says,
  • “Her Nazarites were purer than snow, whiter than milk; they were more ruddy in body than rubies, their figure was as sapphire”, Lamentations 4: 7; a wonderful description!

• So that it is not the thought of God that there should be one only, but many; and it applies to man or woman:
  • “If a man or a woman have vowed the special vow of a Nazarite, to consecrate themselves to Jehovah”.

• This seems to be brought in here as indicating the necessity for such a thing, if what is set out in the earlier chapters – the beautiful order of the camp of God, with God Himself the Centre – is to be realised among us.

• “Our God the Centre is”, as the hymn says, alludes to the present time. He is the Centre of His camp, and He dwells therein.

• If the beautiful order relating to that camp, in military and levitical and priestly array, is to be preserved, it can only be on the principle of Nazariteship.

• I think it is important to see at the outset that what was special of old is normal in Christianity –

• “If a man or a woman have vowed the special vow of a Nazarite”.

Ques. Does the allusion to it being a special vow, which, as you say, is to be normal in our time, stand over against

• the unfaithfulness of the assembly, as brought out by the trial of jealousy alluded to in the previous chapter?

• And would it not promote a holy desire, with those who desire to walk in the truth, to take on this special vow?

G.R.C. So that the Lord, as the Husband, detected the fall at Ephesus:

• “remember therefore whence thou art fallen”, Revelation 2: 5.

• Although outwardly things were going on well at Ephesus at that time, yet there had been a tremendous fall. Ephesus did not answer to the trial of jealousy. He says,
  • “I have against thee that thou hast left thy first love”;

• and therefore from that point on it is the overcomer who is addressed. And could there be an overcomer apart from the vow of a Nazarite?

Ques. What is the meaning of the word ‘Nazarite’?

G.R.C. The note in verse 2 helps; it says, ‘Nazarite, consecration, separation’ in this chapter are from the same Hebrew root ‘Nazar’.

• Apparently it conveys all those meanings, so that much is said here about separation and consecration. It says first of all,
  • “the special vow of a Nazarite, to consecrate themselves to Jehovah”; and then,

  • “he shall separate himself”.

• He is consecrated to Jehovah, and separated from wine and strong drink, etc.

Ques. Do you link this with 2 Timothy 2,

• “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord withdraw from iniquity”, and then,

• “If therefore one shall have purified himself from these in separating himself from them, he shall be a vessel to honour, sanctified, serviceable to the Master, prepared for every good work”, verse 21?

• I wondered if that would come in in answer to the breakdown through unfaithfulness?

G.R.C. That is good. There could not be Nazariteship apart from obedience to those injunctions in Timothy.

• There must be the departing or withdrawing from iniquity, and the separating from the vessels to dishonour; that is essential.

• Some may say, ‘There are many devoted believers still linked up with iniquitous systems’.

• The Lord knows how to assess devotion wherever it is found; but chapters like this, and others we have read already, are to help us, so that our devotion might be in right channels.

• That is why this chapter, from verse 13 to 21, gives the law of the Nazarite.

• We have to pay great attention to this law; it is the governing principle of true devotion; unless we are governed by that, our devotion is misplaced.

Ques. Does this leave room for love to act distinctively in every one of us?

• It is not a question of moving with the mass, it is a special vow; nor is it intended to relate to any specific service.

• It is general in the sense of service, is it not, but special in the sense that each person takes it?

G.R.C. I think that is a help, because in a peace-offering for a vow it is what one would do at a certain time, as committing oneself to something in the way of sacrifice for the sake of God and His people.

• Here it is not just a special act, but the man consecrates himself to Jehovah and separates himself.

• He would, as our brother said, be fitted for every good work, and the details of it would work out, no doubt, in many peace-offerings.

• The law of the Nazarite prescribes what is essential as the offering to Jehovah for his consecration, but adds,
  • “beside what his hand is able to get”, verse 21.

• In the case of a man like this, there is no limit to what he might bring, and what he might do.

• Then, too, different ones may vow to a greater or lesser extent, so in the same verse it says,
  • “according to the vow which he vowed, so shall he do”.

Ques. Would the history of Samson help in regard of the introduction of this feature in a day of breakdown, and how early it comes in, even in the exercise of the parents? It says,

• “for the boy shall be a Nazarite of God from the womb to the day of his death”, Judges 13: 7.

G.R.C. That is very helpful, because it shows how much the mother has to do with this – and both parents, indeed – because Nazariteship should start young. It started “from the womb”.

• I think that shows that where the trial of jealousy is entered into in the previous chapter, and it leads to self-judgment and recovery to first love, there will be Nazarites.

• The Lord’s word to Ephesus in connection with the trial of jealousy,
  • “thou hast left thy first love”,

• is calculated to bring about self-examination with a view to recovery. It says,
  • “Repent, and do the first works”.

• The trial of jealousy also contemplates a case where the wife is proved to be loyal and true; and if we apply that to the assembly,
  • where the affections of motherhood in the assembly are pure and true, faithful to Christ, there will be offspring of this kind, one would judge.

Rem. While the Angel of Jehovah says,

• “for the boy shall be a Nazarite of God from the womb”, verse 5;

• his mother when she speaks of it to her husband, brings in what is additional in that she says,
  • “for the boy shall be a Nazarite of God from the womb to the day of his death”, verse 7.

• She sees this feature going right through.

G.R.C. What an outlook for fathers and mothers!

• Themselves devoted, themselves having accepted the implications of the trial of jealousy
  • – and we each need to search ourselves as to whether our affections are pure towards Christ –

• then what possibilities they can expect to find in the young from birth to the day of death.

• We can apply this, not only to natural parents, but to “mothers in Israel”, because how many sisters and brothers there are who, while they have, in the ways of God, no children of their own, take on in their affections all the young people in their local gathering.

• One has seen fatherhood and motherhood developed in a remarkable way amongst persons who have no children of their own.

Ques. Would you distinguish between what we have in this chapter, and what we have in a person devoting himself by a vow in Leviticus 27?

G.R.C. I think a person devoting himself by a vow does not necessarily go as far as this.

• In that chapter there is a valuation, and the priest values those who are not up to the divine standard.

• The vow of the Nazarite, as it says here, is special, seeming to indicate that there were other vows of a lesser order, and no vow is despised;
  • but one feels that the vow of the Nazarite is particularly applicable to Christianity,

• because the Lord Jesus Himself is the great Example. He says,
  • “I will not at all drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in the kingdom of my Father”, Matthew 26: 29.

Ques. Would the opening chapters of Luke’s gospel afford us illustrations of what you are saying?

• Does not the testimony there open out from a company of Nazarites? I am thinking of Elizabeth and Mary, and Simeon and Anna.

• You get the parental exercises very delicately touched on in those chapters, too.

G.R.C. You do. So that John the Baptist is another sample Nazarite, coming from a setting of Nazariteship,

• a setting of devoted affections to God and His interests on the part of his parents and others. He was not to drink wine nor strong drink.

Ques. Is it significant that both the blessing of Joseph by Jacob, and that of the tribe of Joseph by Moses, bring in this thought of being separated from among his brethren? According to the note it means Nazarite.

G.R.C. Joseph was a true Nazarite to God, and his history shows that this special devotion to God may bring us into reproach among our brethren, as well as in the world.

• In fact the 2 Timothy position does that in a general way. Those who take up the injunctions of 2 Timothy
  • become a reproach amongst their fellow Christians whom they love, as well as in the world.

• The long hair of the Nazarite would be a reproach in the eyes of the world.

Ques. Is not that specially so among young people, and where young people are set together, as for instance in the forces?

• Those who have desired to be especially set apart to God have come into considerable reproach, often being regarded as legal and the like.

G.R.C. That is what we have to be prepared for in the vow of the Nazarite. We have to be prepared to be misunderstood, even by our contemporaries.

Rem. Hannah was one who went on secretly, with deep feelings as to the barrenness of the public position – 1 Samuel 1-2.

• Mocked by her rival, she brought in the thought of the Nazarite, in view of immense fruitfulness in regard to the bringing in of Christ, seen typically in Samuel.

G.R.C. Quite so. Hannah is another example of a true mother, one who would answer to the test of the trial of jealousy, and the result was a Nazarite; and, of course,

• while we can apply this to mothers with sons, and mothers in Israel, and the children of such mothers, it applies in the same person.

• What I mean is this, that if I personally answer to the trial of jealousy I shall become a Nazarite.

• That is the answer to it. If my affections are on the line of first love for Christ, I shall be none other than a Nazarite.

Ques. Would that peculiarly apply to the overcomer in Revelation, the promise being to the overcomer?

G.R.C. It would. I would say that every overcomer is a Nazarite in principle; and as to Hannah it says,

• “she vowed a vow”

• in connection with her son, and part of it was,
  • “I will give him to Jehovah all the days of his life, and there shall no razor come upon his head”.

Ques. Was not Hannah herself a Nazarite? I was thinking of how she answers the reproachful word of Eli when she says,

• “No, my lord, I am a woman of sorrowful spirit; I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but have poured out my soul before Jehovah”.

G.R.C. That was like the word to Manoah’s wife in Judges 13, was it not?

• It is another word for us as parents, that, if we are concerned that our offspring might answer to God in this way, we are to be in keeping with it ourselves. The word to Manoah’s wife was,
  • “Behold, thou shalt conceive and bear a son; and now drink not wine nor strong drink, and eat not anything unclean; for the boy shall be a Nazarite of God from the womb to the day of his death”, verse 7.

• Then, when enquiry was made as to how they should bring up the child, it says,
  • “And the Angel of Jehovah said to Manoah, Of all that I said unto the woman let her beware: she shall not eat of anything that cometh of the vine, neither shall she drink wine or strong drink, nor eat anything unclean: all that I commanded her shall she observe”, verses 13-14.

• So that when they ask how to bring up the child who has such a destiny in view, the Angel of Jehovah repeats, Look after yourself, be in keeping with the Nazariteship yourself.

Rem. In Timothy the grandmother is brought in.

G.R.C. That is interesting, because some of us are grandparents, are we not? So we should think of our grandchildren as well as our children.

Ques. Would not this principle of Nazariteship help us in regard of matters of association, that

• separation is not just a matter of principle for itself, but it is in view of consecrating ourselves to Jehovah? God is before us.

G.R.C. We really have in view what comes in at the end, that our hands should be filled with what is pleasurable to God,

• so that the service of God, and the communion of the saints as represented in the peace-offering, should be enriched – see Numbers 6: 14.

• That is the great objective, that God’s service should be enriched, and that the saints should be better fed, and themselves increasingly happy in that service.

Ques. Would you mind saying what the significance of the injunctions to drink no strong drink is? You touched on the growing of the hair as indicating reproach. What do we understand by the former?

G.R.C. That is a very important point. That is what the Nazarite is to separate himself from. I think that is what causes this to be a special vow.

• We can understand that a Christian is to separate himself from what is unclean, and from idolatrous associations.

• But this goes further. He is to separate himself from wine and strong drink.

• There is nothing wrong with wine and strong drink in itself; it is not unclean; so that it goes further than 2 Timothy 2.

• It is essential, as a background, to withdraw from iniquity, and to separate from vessels to dishonour; but this goes further.

Ques. Would it link with Romans 12, presenting our bodies?

G.R.C. It would certainly begin there.

Ques. Would verses 3 and 4, and the separation there alluded to, bear more upon us inwardly as to our tastes and the like;

• whereas verse 5, in connection with the hair being long, would bear more on us in an outward and public setting, would you think?

G.R.C. Yes; and if we are not separating according to verses 3 and 4 we will not be prepared for the hair to grow long; we will not be prepared to be a reproach publicly.

• But I think we ought to examine this matter of separating from wine and strong drink.

Ques. In view of the fact that the Nazarite is allowed to go back to wine afterwards, does it mean that if we are to be specially devoted to God we must be free of the special emotions of nature? It does not mean that we are to be unnatural, does it?

G.R.C. No; but I think the going back to wine afterwards means going back to wine in a new way;

• “When I drink it new”, the Lord says.

• I do not think it means going back to the old, but, applying it to the present time, that if we are true to the Nazarite’s vow we get in abundance the new wine in the assembly.

• We can drink wine then; it is in a new setting. It is after all these offerings have been offered, then he can drink wine. That would be relative to God and His house.

• At the same time, what you say is important, that this does not justify a man becoming unnatural; we must dismiss that idea. It does not mean that we separate ourselves from natural relationships.

• Nazariteship does not necessarily mean that a man remains unmarried, for instance. Paul remained unmarried, but it does not necessarily mean that.

• A man can be a Nazarite and be married, and fulfil his obligations in a better way than one who is not a Nazarite.

Ques. Would that be seen in Enoch? He was a married man and he walked with God, did he not?

G.R.C. Yes, he walked with God and begat sons and daughters; and we have been referring to Manoah’s wife and Hannah.

• Hannah’s husband was not equal to her; but he was a good man, and it says he,
  • “went up to sacrifice to Jehovah the yearly sacrifice and his vow”, 1 Samuel 1: 21.

• His vow was not on the level of Hannah’s vow, but he was a man who made vows.

• And so we have seen how Nazariteship does not mean the setting aside of natural relationships as held rightly according to God.

Ques. Is it a question of what takes precedence, the spiritual or the natural?

G.R.C. That would come into it; but what, I believe, is involved is the question of what I rely upon for stimulation.

• What is keeping me going? I believe that is what we have to come to.

• There are many things, which are quite legitimate according to nature, which we may rely upon to keep us going, to use a homely phrase. They stimulate us – give us a fresh impetus in life.

• A man who is set for promotion in business may go on for months on the stimulation of having got promotion in his business.

• That is a very poor thing. God gave him the promotion, maybe; but, if he is a Nazarite, he will not drink that as wine. He will not let that be the stimulation of his life. And so with other things.

• A man may get married, and his home may be his stimulation; he is thinking about his home, and that is keeping him going – it is the main-spring of his life.

Ques. Is it a remarkable thing that the appropriation of the Spirit is so much linked with the thought of drinking in the scriptures? Would that be the power which enables us to keep going spiritually according to God?

G.R.C. Very good. “Be not drunk with wine … but be filled with the Spirit”, Ephesians 5: 18.

• The Nazarite knows no other source of stimulation.

Rem. I was thinking of John 4,

• “the water which I shall give him shall become in him a fountain of water, springing up into eternal life”, verse 14.

• As having scope, the Spirit leads the affections to a new objective.

G.R.C. Quite so. We know how our natural hearts crave for natural stimulation

• – a new house, a new car or new clothes –

• and, for the time being, we may be carried away by natural intoxication.

• Those things are not wrong in themselves, we have to use such things; but we should not allow them to become the source of our joy or stimulation.

Ques. May I refer to Samson again, where it says,

• “And the Spirit of Jehovah began to move him”, Judges 13: 25.

• The word ‘move’ there, as the footnote shows, suggests ‘powerful emotion’.

• Does that indicate that the stimulation, and the emotions proper to Nazariteship, are to be found in the Spirit?

G.R.C. That is excellent.

Ques. Does the passage in 1 Corinthians 7 have any bearing on this, where the apostle says,

• “the time is straitened”, and suggests that those, “who have wives, be as not having any: and they that weep, as not weeping; and they that rejoice, as not rejoicing; and they that buy, as not possessing; and they that use the world, as not disposing of it as their own”, verses 29-31?

G.R.C. That is the outlook of a Nazarite. Paul does not say that a man should not marry; he says,

• “So that he that marries himself does well”, verse 38.

• At that time a man who did not marry did better, but nevertheless the man who married did well. But what he says is,
  • “For the rest, that they who have wives, be as not having any”.

• It does not mean that the natural relationship is not fulfilled, but it stands related to what is governing a man in the way of stimulation – what he is relying upon to move him.

• Our brother has just spoken about Samson being moved by the Spirit – deep emotions in Samsons’ soul.

• That is the kind of thing we would make way for; and so it goes on to say,
  • “they that buy, as not possessing; and they that use the world, as not disposing of it as their own”.

• There is no thought in those verses of getting stimulation from these things; they are not to be used as wine or strong drink at all, but as utility things. That is the idea of using the world.
  • “They that buy, as not possessing”.

• I, thus, should only buy for utility purposes; I should buy things, not for stimulation, but for use in the testimony.

• That sets us free to use the world, to use anything that is offered as long as it is serviceable.

Rem. The continuity and the totality of the separation is emphasised in verse 4, not only separating himself from wine, but,

• “all the days of his separation shall he eat nothing that is made of the vine, from the seed-stones, even to the skin”.

G.R.C. It shows that even the smallest thing can displace the Spirit as the source and power of stimulation.

• We know how foolish our hearts are, how they will set themselves even on a tiny thing, a tiny acquisition of this world’s goods.

• To separate from what is unclean is essential, not special. We are not vitally in things at all if we have not separated from what is unclean.

• But what makes this vow special is the separating from wine and strong drink; from things which are not wrong at all in themselves, but which keep the natural man going.

• But the Nazarite says, I am not going to rely on any of those things to keep me going; I will rely only on the Spirit of God.

Rem. In John 4, when the Lord had dealt with the woman, it says,

• “the woman then left her water pot and went away into the city”, verse 28.

G.R.C. She left her water pot, that in which she had previously sought satisfaction.

Ques. Is the Divine approval of this separation seen in the family of the Rechabites? It says,

• “There shall not fail to Jonadab the son of Rechab a man to stand before me, for ever”, Jeremiah 35: 19.

• They were to abstain from wine; and, not only that, they were not to build houses, but were to dwell in tents.

G.R.C. That is good, because it is important we should keep the tent outlook as well. We literally dwell in houses, but it is important to keep the tent outlook. There is nothing much to stimulate in a tent.

Ques. Does Paul set forth the Nazarite when he says,

• “all things are lawful to me, but I will not be brought under the power of any”, 1 Corinthians 6: 12?

G.R.C. That is the point here. These things are lawful, yet here is a man separating himself from what is lawful to be consecrated to Jehovah. How much are we prepared for this?

Rem. I was thinking of Elisha’s question to Gehazi,

• “Is it a time to receive money, and to receive garments, and oliveyards, and vineyards?” etc, 2 Kings 5: 26;

• in view of the time in which we live, and the assembly’s near translation.

G.R.C. That is really the point of the matter. In the world to come it will be no credit to anyone to separate himself from wine or strong drink,

• because it will be the time when persons can be for God in an earthly setting; it will be the time for earthly things.

• But Numbers has in view the tabernacle of testimony in the wilderness; that is, it has in view
  • this present time when the assembly, as the tabernacle of testimony, is passing through the wilderness, a heavenly vessel here on earth.

• So it is the time when, if we truly wish to be devoted, we must separate ourselves from wine and strong drink.

Ques. On the positive side, would it be seen in Paul in writing to the Philippians? He says,

• “I have all things in full supply and abound; I am full.”, chapter 4: 18.

• Do we see the spiritual stimulation he has?

G.R.C. He was drinking the wine of Nazariteship which comes in at the end of the chapter, was he not?

• The fruit of Nazariteship is that we have wine on a higher and better level; so he says,
  • “Rejoice in the Lord always: again I will say, Rejoice”, Philippians 4: 4.

• He was a heavenly man; he had turned his back on things of earth.

Ques. Would you say the Lord recognises the secret longing for stimulation when He says,

• “If anyone thirst, let him come to me and drink”?

G.R.C. In coming to Him there is no lack of satisfaction or stimulation.

Rem. So it says here, “to Jehovah”; it is repeated time and again.

Rem. In the marriage at Cana of Galilee the first wine was deficient, but the Lord brings in good wine at the end. It came out of the servants’ stone water vessels of purification.

G.R.C. Dispensationally, no doubt, that refers to the world to come, when there will be no need for devoted souls to separate themselves from wine or strong drink;

• but it has an application now which I think you have in mind, because the water pots being filled with water to the brim would set a household up on the line of Nazariteship,

• and it is really on the line of Nazariteship that we come into joy of a superlative order. The chapter closes with that.

• The Nazarite loses nothing on this line; he gets what is superlative in the way of joy of a spiritual and heavenly kind.

Ques. Would this special vow, while not destroying nature, as you have said, give us skill to eliminate nature from the service of God?

• I was thinking of the setting of it here, finishing in the way the chapter does. Are we not liable to lose the best because of the projection of nature?

• You may have ability in other things which may not be wrong, but it would hinder the service of God.

G.R.C. So that really this chapter shows how the service of God is arrived at and provided for in a substantial way.

• The Nazarite, in some respects, is on a level with the High Priest, as has often been pointed out. In verse 7,
  • “He shall not make himself unclean for his father, or for his mother, for his brother, or for his sister when they die”.

• He is on the level of separation of the High Priest himself; and, of course, the Lord Jesus is the great example of Nazariteship, and it really means we are to be in line with Him Himself.
  • Paul exhorts us to be, “my imitators, even as I also am of Christ”, 1 Corinthians 11: 1.

• Christ is the great Example, but Paul follows on and exhorts us to do the same.

• I believe it is in this way that we come into priesthood substantially, because the Nazarite merges in the priest at the end of the chapter.

• I mean we are priests by anointing; everyone who has the Spirit is a priest, but, I believe, it is on the line of Nazariteship that we come into it substantially, and with real wealth.

Ques. Does Ephesians 5 show how we can bring stimulation into the assembly,

• “speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs”, and so on, chapter 5: 19?

G.R.C. I think so. As it says,

• “afterwards the Nazarite may drink wine”.

• There is plenty of wine in a spiritual sense. Indeed, he brings wine with his offering, he brings the drink-offering of strong drink;
  • but, spiritually applied, that is not the strong drink he gave up; it is a different kind of stimulation and emotion altogether.

Ques. Would you say why the head is so prominent? It says,

• “the consecration of his God is upon his head”, verse 7.

• I was wondering whether the danger of the introduction of the merely mental mind is a great danger to us. The Nazarite would see that that did not intrude.

G.R.C. That is very good. At the same time it means that our renewed minds are wholly available.

• What one is sometimes concerned about is the danger of getting exclusively occupied in our minds with earthly things.

• Young people have to do so much study now-a-days; but the Lord will help them in it, if they are set for Him, so that it does not defile the head of their consecration. It says,
  • “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thine understanding”, Luke 10: 27.

• The mind is put last; but it is the crowning thing, in a way.

• It would be good for every young person here to understand that God Himself is the only adequate occupation for the mind of man as renewed by the Holy Spirit.

• What an occupation – to be absorbed with God!

Ques. Would that help us in the maintenance of Nazariteship, to be wholly occupied with God?

G.R.C. Like Timothy: “Occupy thyself with these things; be wholly in them”.

Ques. Would you say a word on verse 9? In what way may he come in contact unexpectedly?

G.R.C. It seems to indicate that, where one has made the special vow of a Nazarite, it is incumbent upon him to be extremely vigilant,

• because, while the person dies unexpectedly by him suddenly, the responsibility is put on the Nazarite.

• The fact is he suffers penalty on account of it, and he has to bring two turtle doves or two young pigeons to the priest at the entrance of the tent of meeting, one for a sin-offering and the other for a burnt-offering, to make atonement for him;
  • and then he has to bring a yearling lamb for a trespass-offering, showing that he has to take full responsibility,

  • because a man who has consecrated himself to Jehovah to be holy to Jehovah, and had separated himself from wine and strong drink, should be exceedingly vigilant about the lesser matters.

• Not being defiled by a dead body is a basic essential, and if he has gone further than that in his vow, he must be very careful not to infringe the basic matters.

• One feels very tested as to this, because of many failures. It is so easy to lack vigilance, and, before we know where we are, we have touched a dead body; and it is a very solemn thing then.

• We have to bring our sin-offering and our burnt-offering to the tent of meeting, and we have to bring a trespass-offering, before there is restoration.

Ques. Is not the need for vigilance especially seen at the end of verse 12,

• “But the first days are forfeited”?

G.R.C. It is a severe penalty that the first days are forfeited. It would make us vigilant. Why should we not be vigilant? Why should we start the day without vigilance?

• We start the day, and perhaps, before we know where we are, something has been presented to us which has drawn out that in us which implies touching a dead body.

Ques. Would that stress the great need for us to rely constantly upon the Spirit?

G.R.C. “Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall no way fulfil flesh’s lust”, Galatians 5: 16.

• The nearest dead body to us is the body of death, according to Romans 7.

• We are carrying, as it were, a body of death along with us; but we are not to touch it; we are not to become identified with it. That can happen in more ways than one.

• We know how easily it can happen with fleshy lusts; we allow ourselves for a moment to be identified with our flesh, whereas we are really not in flesh but in Spirit. We should ever be walking in the Spirit.

• Peter, no doubt in principle a Nazarite, says to the Lord,
  • “If I should needs die with thee, I will in no wise deny thee”, Matthew 26: 35.

• Though a devoted man, yet, in a religious way, as we may say, he was touching a dead body. It was self-confidence, and therefore he forfeited the days of his Nazariteship, in that sense.

• Through the Lord’s grace he made a fresh start:
  • “The Lord is indeed risen and has appeared to Simon”, Luke 24: 34.

• Peter wept; no doubt he brought his sin-offering and his burnt-offering; and no doubt, too, he brought the trespass-offering, and he was restored. What a Nazarite he was in the Acts!

Ques. Would you say that where there has been such a vow the Lord never releases that person from it?

G.R.C. No, there seems to be no question here of being released from it; it is a question of a renewal, and of going through with it.

• I think this side of it is important, because we all fail; but the Lord in faithfulness would see us through, even if we have to make a good many fresh starts.

• He would see us through, with an increased appreciation of Himself and His death, and an increased self-judgment.

Ques. Would you say a word as to the blessing which comes in at the end of the chapter? There is a link, is there not, with what has preceded?

G.R.C. There is, and it seems to me that the blessing involves the Trinity, as we see in our day.

• It shows the pleasure God has in Nazariteship, and how the whole of Israel get the benefit, and that is true today.

• The whole church is credited, in the Lord’s mind, with what marks the overcomer; so that we serve the whole church in being separate in this way to Jehovah; we bring a blessing upon all, for He says,
  • “Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee out of the hour of trial”, Revelation 3: 10 – the whole church.

• In a way, as I said, the whole church is credited with what is seen in the overcomer. This blessing is very beautiful:
  • “Jehovah bless thee, and keep thee”.

• We can link that with the Holy Spirit, I have no doubt.
  • “Jehovah make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee”.

• We can link that with the Lord Jesus.
  • “Jehovah lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace”.

• We can link that with the Father.
  • “And they shall put my name”, to us the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, “upon the children of Israel”.

Ques. Would you say something about verse 18? It says, he

• “shall take the hair of the head of his consecration, and put it on the fire which is under the sacrifice of the peace-offering”.

G.R.C. There is nothing like that anywhere else in scripture, is there?

Rem. Absolutely unique, I think.

G.R.C. It is a remarkable thing that that should contribute to the fire on the altar. I do not know that I can say much.

Ques. Does the hair suggest the spiritual vitality of the person, so that Samson was marked in power by the Spirit by the seven locks? When they were removed his power was gone;

• but while the power is present, in the Spirit, there can be an identification with the altar.

G.R.C. I would think that is right; and it is that very spiritual vitality which is a reproach amongst men, and a reproach amongst unspiritual persons.

• Yet that very thing which brings us into reproach amongst men, and amongst unspiritual persons, is the thing which contributes to the fire on the altar.

• The law of the offering we can look at privately; it is important to keep it in mind, because the law of the Nazarite is that which directs us as to the end in view in devotedness, so that our devotion should not be misplaced.

• We see that the end in view is what is brought to the tent of meeting, to enrich the service of God, and to strengthen the priesthood.

Ques. Is that why you have Aaron and his sons brought in, the whole consecrated company, in verse 23?

G.R.C. It would seem as though the priesthood was, as it were, strengthened by what the Nazarite brought, to enable them to bless, in this way, the children of Israel.

Ques. Why is the last sentence brought in as if God would add further, “I will bless them”?

G.R.C. The priests had blessed them, and now He says,

• “I will bless them”.

• There is no end to the blessing on this line.

Ques. Would it give peculiar vitality to the testimony when this spirit is seen, because God would be seen to be committed to such a people?

• “And they shall put my name”

• upon them implies God’s committal to His people.

G.R.C. It seems to depend on Nazariteship if God’s name is to be manifestly upon His people.