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READING  3
The Lord Jesus as seen in the Revelation ( 3 )
Revelation 12: 1-11; 19: 6-16
Memorials 3: 45-62

G. R. Cowell, 1898-1963

G.R.C. We are considering in these readings the way the Lord is presented in the book of Revelation,

The consideration of Christ, as presented in these chapters, will involve seeking help on travail, as seen in the woman, with a view to the male son being brought forth;

Ques. Do you think, going back to chapters 1 and 4, that the voice as of a trumpet – Revelation 1: 10 and 4: 1 – has in mind the assembling of all that is faithful to God in relation to this conflict?

G.R.C. So that, while the voice was heard by the bondman, John, you would think that that trumpet voice should sound in the hearts of all the bondmen?

Rem. I would think that in being passed on by John it does not lose that character. It reaches the saints in the character in which he heard it.

G.R.C. So you think it gives character to the book, as mobilising the bondmen for the conflict?

Rem. That was what I wondered.

Ques. Does John in this book justify the name given to him and his brother by the Lord – Boanerges, meaning

G.R.C. Yes. It is remarkable that the one thing which he was not to write was the voice of the seven thunders. Revelation 10: 4. Why do you think that was?

Ques. Is there not something inscrutable in all God’s ways?

Ques. Does the prominence of heaven connect at all with Deborah’s song –

G.R.C. Quite so. Our passage begins,

Ques. What is the force of the expression, “a male son”?

G.R.C. Does it not stress the necessity for what is suggested in the male? The Old Testament speaks of the males, both in the offerings and in those who appeared before God.

Ques. Is that why Zechariah is privileged to bring that combination forward in history when the remnant was at a low ebb publicly?

G.R.C. Do you mean where he speaks of him being a priest upon his throne Zechariah 6: 13?

Ques. Yes. Do you think that the prophetic side of the matter is one thing, but the travailing to bring forth is quite another?

G.R.C. “Caught up to God” is the priest, “and to his throne” is the king;

Ques. Would the fact that the saints of this dispensation are included be confirmed by the word to Thyatira, where it says of him that overcomes,

G.R.C. The overcomer is to shepherd the nations with an iron rod. As you say, it confirms that the saints are associated with Christ in this matter.

Ques. Is the figure of travail used to emphasize what is actually being formed in the saints at the present time – as to their understanding of the place that Christ has, and is to occupy?

G.R.C. The travailing to bring forth is a very important matter. While the woman represents Israel,

Rem. So that there is something definitely arrived at.

Ques. Would this be parallel with John 16?

G.R.C. That is a good scripture to bring forward. That time was the time of travail for the disciples; and, if there is to be any formation of Christ in us, it involves travail. He says,

Ques. Why is it, “her child” here?

G.R.C. It gives credit to the woman and her exercises. It would stress that this cannot be brought about without pain and travail on the part of the woman. So God says it is her child.

Ques. I suppose travail involves hard work and suffering. Is that because it means the displacement of the first man inwardly, in order that what is of Christ might come into full expression?

G.R.C. I think so. John 16 involves that even Christ after the flesh is known no more, and that is a solemn thing to face. Everything connected with man after the flesh is superseded.

Ques. Would it be not only the sinful side of things but the natural order?

G.R.C. Exactly, because with Christ after the flesh there was no sin; but even Christ after the flesh we know no more.

Ques. Do we learn to move from Benoni to Benjamin in that way? It went hard with Rachel; there was deep suffering, but she was encouraged; and out of all that came Benjamin, the son of the right hand.

G.R.C. That is very good. The Lord says in John 16,

Rem. Travail in Romans 8 is linked with the creation, although we also are said to groan.

G.R.C. I think so. And so when it comes to the saints travailing, the idea of the woman enters into it, and it is in a setting of great danger.

Ques. Travail has the thought of propagating love’s ideal, has it not?

G.R.C. Exactly.

Ques. In Psalm 2, Jehovah says,

G.R.C. I think that is the bearing of this chapter. It is a question of the Priest and King, and of the saints functioning as a royal priesthood, as formed after Christ;

Ques. It says, “Upon her head a crown of twelve stars”.

G.R.C. She is “clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars”,

Ques. Supreme authority in the sun, and delegated authority in the moon – what is vested in the assembly, do you think?

G.R.C. Quite so. And upon her head a crown of twelve stars. The dragon has ten horns. He never reaches the number twelve;

Ques. What about the four dimensions in Ephesians 3? Is there a suggestion of travail with Paul as he bows his knees to the Father in relation to the saints?

G.R.C. He was in very deep exercise, was he not?

Rem. It says, “That ye may be fully able to apprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and depth and height; and to know the love of the Christ which surpasses knowledge”, Ephesians 3: 18-19.

G.R.C. And the love of the Christ runs through this book, does it not?

Ques. The challenge is met on earth by the male Son being born on the earth;

G.R.C. Would not the time of travail and formation and bringing forth be while the saints are on earth?

Ques. Would the thought be that everything must be maintained testimonially in suffering grace here, the ground thus held for the coming Heir until we come forth with Him in glory?

G.R.C. Quite so. So she is the bride, the Lamb’s wife. Those who form that vessel have overcome in their period of conflict

Ques. Would you say that his manifest exposure comes before all in verse 9 of chapter 12, in his true character publicly; but we are not ignorant of his devices?

G.R.C. So that whether as the serpent, or as the Devil, or as Satan, or as the deceiver, we are not ignorant of his devices.

Ques. Paul calls him by different names, does he not?

G.R.C. Quite so. He says,

Ques. Is it remarkable, in the reference which Paul makes to the serpent, and in the original allusion to him, that the travailing sex is before us, and the thought of the serpent is first in this description?

G.R.C. And as the Dragon, which is another view, he would devour the male son.

Rem. In Job 2 the sons of God presented themselves, and then Satan presented himself before Jehovah in opposition.

G.R.C. Quite so. And it is clear that the work of the serpent in Genesis resulted in the need of travail.

Rem. “Redemption’s glory shed”, the hymn says.

G.R.C. And this passage shows how the wifely side would closely link with that; for the word is,

Rem. We really approach the Supper from the suffering angle, because it is deposited in the assembly in the scene of treachery –

G.R.C. So the word is,

Ques. Does the marriage of the Lamb involve the presentation of the assembly to Christ?

G.R.C. I think it would coincide with that –

Ques. Would there be some idea of it in the book of Esther, where it speaks of six months with oil of myrrh, and six months with spices? Esther 2: 12.

G.R.C. That is a majestic setting also. Each scripture, of course, has its own setting.

Ques. Would you say a word as to what was granted her? Is that something additional to making herself ready?

G.R.C. The two things seem to be blended, do they not? She has made herself ready; but then what was granted to her was,

Ques. Does not Genesis 24 bear on this? Rebecca took what was given to her; and then finally she took the veil, and covered herself.

G.R.C. Each scripture has its own setting; and there it is largely what the servant did.

Ques. Does it not become a peculiar challenge to us, as to how much we are allied to this feature of making herself ready?

G.R.C. Proverbs 31 links with that; the testing is to bring out the righteousnesses of saints, is it not?

Rem. Yes. Mr. Darby gave a very short but powerful definition of the word “royalty”.

G.R.C. Very good. And that also bears on the armies, because, as to the wife, it says it was given to her that she should be clothed in fine linen, bright and pure;

Rem. Say a little more about that.

G.R.C. In the Song of Songs the spouse does not need to change her apparel; she is,

Rem. And when he describes her appreciatively in detail, in the Song of Songs, it is always in the beauty of her military array, showing what military prowess in the assembly means to the heart of Christ now.

G.R.C. He delights in a militant wife.

Rem. As David in Abigail.

G.R.C. And so this setting of the Lord is one which should engage our affections. It is a marvellous presentation!

Ques. Would this be the result of the exercise of overcoming?

G.R.C. It would. It is the exercise of overcoming which brings about the righteousnesses of the saints, and fits us for riding, in the coming day, upon white horses.

Rem. What power this would give in suffering here – the apprehension of the Lord in this way, as King of kings and Lord of lords!

G.R.C. What an honour to be the bondman of such a one!

Ques. One of the features which marked the great warrior Paul, in conflict, was pureness.

G.R.C. We would become casualties otherwise, but there is no thought of a casualty in this army.

Ques. Why is the name written on the thigh?

Ques. Is it the strength to support and go through, do you think?

Ques. In Daniel 4: 35 it says,

G.R.C. It does. The centurion said, as to the army,

Ques. Referring to the cup and the Lord’s Supper, is it not significant that in 1 Corinthians 11 it is not recorded that the Lord’s blood is poured out for us?

G.R.C. I think that bears on what we have said about chapter 5 of this book. It is left open in Corinthians –

But there is one more point in this passage which we ought to refer to.

Rem. In the end of verse 9 it says,

G.R.C. Quite so; then here,

Rem. The only aggressive weapon in the armour in Ephesians is the sword, and it was the Lord’s only weapon in the temptation.

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READING  4
The Lord Jesus as seen in the Revelation ( 4 )
Revelation 20: 4-6, 11-15; 21: 1-8
Memorials 3: 63-81

G.R.C. In chapter 19: 11 it says of the One on the white horse that He judges and makes war in righteousness. It is what we might call judicial warfare.

All along there has been opposition to the testimony, and we can speak of armed opposition during the present period; not in the sense of physical armaments;

So that we ourselves are in a period where conflict, and judicial conflict, has to go on; but chapter 19 shows how the matter is brought to finality. It says in verse 20,

Ques. Does Paul have to do with both kinds of judgment in 2 Corinthians? He refers to,

G.R.C. Those passages help. As you say, in 2 Corinthians 10 he is referring to the arms of their warfare;

Ques. Sometimes we hear the expression, ‘The right thing was done in the wrong way’.

G.R.C. That is very important.

Ques. Would the apostle, speaking of,

G.R.C. “A sweet odour of Christ to God in the saved and in those that perish”, 2 Corinthians 2: 15.

Rem. “Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord we persuade men”, 2 Corinthians 5: 11.

Ques. And should not the throne come more into the preaching in these last days?

G.R.C. And so in both of the epistles to Timothy he speaks of himself as a herald, does he not?

Rem. Yes. The word, “Proclaim” is the same word as herald, but as a verb.

G.R.C. That is interesting. A herald, one would judge, is connected with the throne. His message is a proclamation from the throne. And that is how Paul regarded himself,

Ques. And does it not become attractive’? Isaiah saw the Lord – Adonai – sitting on a throne, high and lifted up, Isaiah 6: 1, and, as the rights of that throne were upheld, Isaiah comes into the greatest blessing.

G.R.C. Very good. So he says,

Ques. Would it be helpful if you told us what the throne sets forth? Is it a moral idea – the holiness and majesty of God?

G.R.C. God says of Himself,

Ques. Is that not the theme of the speaking on Mars Hill?

G.R.C. Paul speaks there of the commandment:

Rem. And it is, “Because he has set a day …”.

G.R.C. Quite so. “He has set a day in which he is going to judge the habitable earth in righteousness”.

Ques. What would you say as to grace in connection with the throne? Do we not understand that grace is on the throne today?

G.R.C. Quite so. Grace reigns through righteousness; grace is enthroned, and that is what we proclaim in the gospel.

Ques. Grace does not minimise the dignity which is right and proper to the preaching. Does it not rather set out the sovereignty of God in all its grandeur?

G.R.C. I think it does; and the penalty for refusing the commands of grace is a fearful one, because God is presenting His best to men, but in the way of command.

Ques. Do we connect the titles in 1 Timothy with what you are saying? I was thinking of the expression,

G.R.C. I would, and it links with the way he opens the epistle –

Ques. Is that why you connected the thought of penalty with disobeying the gospel, according to 2 Thessalonians 1: 8-9?

G.R.C. It says,

Ques. And is God’s glory seen in that paying of the penalty? Following the reference to the throne in Psalm 97, it says,

G.R.C. There is glory connected with what is judicial. Of course, what Paul is occupied with specially in Timothy is the glad tidings of the glory of the blessed God –

Ques. Could we have a word on sessional judgment, as associated with the thrones and those who sat upon them? Is there a moral connection with the great white throne?

G.R.C. Both of these sessional scenes of judgment are consequent upon all armed opposition being subdued.

Ques. Did the putting down of armed opposition culminate at the end of David’s reign, thus leaving the sessional judgment to Solomon in conditions of peace?

G.R.C. Generally speaking, David had to meet armed opposition, and his judicial dealings were linked with that; but, as you say,

Rem. In Psalm 122, in connection with Jerusalem built as a city which is compact together, it says,

G.R.C. So that while Solomon’s reign began with sessional judgment, yet it had to be maintained throughout the reign.

Ques. Would the thought of sonship underlie that? In the end of Matthew 17 the Lord says,

G.R.C. That is very helpful.

Ques. Does not the sessional judgment really deal with the underlying condition which brought about the conflict?

G.R.C. That is the first thing which has to be dealt with.

Ques. Involving persons, such as Joab and Shimei?

G.R.C. Yes. Solomon had to deal with such immediately.

Rem. You made the remark that, in sessional judgment, we may have to act as regards those who have caused the insurrection.

G.R.C. They may be dealt with in the course of the military operations.

Ques. May we take it that even in our day we can count upon the Lord Himself to act on these lines?

G.R.C. I think so, especially in the military side of it. The Lord is the great military Leader.

Ques. In sessional judgment there is the idea of setting things out in order in arriving at a judgment. Is that not to carry everyone?

Ques. Do you get this in Deuteronomy, where much is made of the judges, and matters are reviewed, in their true spiritual bearing, long after they have taken place, in view of adjustment – such as the issue in regard of the golden calf, and other matters?

G.R.C. So would you say that in sessional character we are not always considering specific cases?

Ques. You mean that those who fall down do not fall out?

G.R.C. That is good. If we fall down in prostration before Him, we shall be preserved.

Ques. As to those referred to at the end of chapter 19, “the rest”, are they still reserved for the final judgment of the great white throne?

G.R.C. Evidently; it does not say they were cast at that time into the lake of fire. We need to approach this section in a spirit of deep reverence.

Ques. What is in your mind in that regard?

G.R.C. I think it is one of the most important ways of apprehending the Lord; but one of the least understood, perhaps.

Rem. I apprehend that, inasmuch as John says that he,

G.R.C. So he is alluding to Him in the One who has come into Manhood in order to be the expression of God in every feature which belongs to God.

Ques. Would you connect this with John 5: 22?

G.R.C. I think scriptures such as that enables us to identify who this is;

Rem. He is, “the effulgence of his glory and the expression of his substance” Hebrews 1: 3.

Ques. Would it not be right to say that we must leave this in its own mystery, and bow in the presence of it, because of the way the Spirit presents it? In chapter 1 it is,

G.R.C. Yes, and I wondered if it drew out our affections to the One who sits on the throne,

Ques. Would the expression, “from whose face the earth and the heaven fled”, be mainly a description of majesty, rather than a statement of fact?

G.R.C. I think it greatly stresses majesty.

Ques. Is there some link with the “I AM” in John’s gospel?

G.R.C. I think so.

Ques. Would you say that only true bondmen can stay in His presence and see His face, according to Revelation 22: 3-4 –

G.R.C. Quite so. His servants are retained in His presence and see His face. They do not have to flee.

Ques. Would it be right to say that the earth and heaven flee here because they have been stained by sin?

G.R.C. I think that is more Peter’s view of it, where he says,

Rem. Otherwise you could not have the new heaven and the new earth wherein dwelleth righteousness.

G.R.C. Quite so. It paves the way for the new heaven and the new earth.

Ques. Is that an incentive for us to complete our exercises, and get things cleared up, in view of what is positive?

G.R.C. It is, because we would all like to move on to new creation ground.

Ques. Would you say that this is the moral consequence of Calvary and what the Lord endured in the forsaking of God?

G.R.C. Is it not exceedingly affecting, as we think of the great white throne and Him that sat on it, to remember that

Rem. So that what is dealt with here is what is irreconcilable.

G.R.C. Yes. See how deliberative it all is –

Rem. And yet there is the book of life, and those written in it.

Ques. Is this the final scene of the reign of Christ, according to 1 Corinthians 15: 26?

G.R.C. I think so.

Ques. Do you contrast the lake of fire, a confined place, with the new heavens and the new earth, a whole universe, a whole expanse, eternity itself, and God all in all?

G.R.C. Quite so. And the lake of fire, as I understand it, remains through all eternity, an eternal witness to the righteous judgment of God – a solemn witness.

Rem. Yes. To use the language of men, it is the curtain dropping, as the whole spiritual drama is worked out to a divine issue and closed up for ever.

G.R.C. And what a divine issue in the new heavens and the new earth!

Ques. Do these contrasting settings of the throne help us to see more clearly its eternal stability, on the one hand, and yet the bearing of it at any given point, on the other?

G.R.C. How very precious that is! When the One on the throne begins to speak, He says,

Rem. So that the power in which everything will be finally solved is morally assured in support of the servant in suffering, before they are solved literally.

Ques. Is not verse 7 very beautiful?

G.R.C. I am glad you referred to that.

Rem. And owned now, as an overcomer

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