A.A.T. Have you any thought as to why it is "Barnabas and Saul", and not Saul and Barnabas?

J.T. I think the Spirit is speaking of conditions as they then stood. Barnabas evidently had the first place in the minds of the brethren, but Saul, or Paul, came into the first place very quickly.

• I think it is to show how brothers may be developed and excel each other in love and ability and energy.

R.W.S. All through, missionary service is from the assembly by the Holy Spirit.

J.T. Well, it is clear that this is the basis of it. This passage has a great place now, because it is wholly set aside in the public way of doing things.

• Missionary service in christendom is carried out on a different principle, so that we are helped in going back to this passage as to it.

J.D. Would this in any way affect the sovereign action of the Spirit in new birth? Does He still hold that place of sovereign work in souls before they come into the assembly?

J.T. I think so. The work as we have been touching on it in chapters 8, 10 and 11 is mainly carried on by persons who were scattered. The assembly is not much in evidence as the basis or centre of operations.

• I think the Spirit waited for the formation of Antioch to show what could be effected, how that in a gentile city there should be such favourable conditions, perhaps exceeding in this sense the conditions at Jerusalem. We have no such statement as this in relation to the assembly at Jerusalem.

• The selection, the setting apart of two men in the assembly as it is functioning in the service of God, and then the sending forth, are to be carefully noted, remarking that the action of sending them forth was not by the assembly, but by the Spirit in the assembly.

A.N.W. You were pointing out earlier the mutuality of the services of divine Persons, and while emphasising that of the Holy Spirit, it is striking here that they are ministering to the Lord. I suppose that is the Lord Jesus. Would it be in ministering to the Lord that the Spirit speaks?

J.T. Yes, though it is a question whether the term Lord is not inclusive of God. It would be right to regard it as applying to Christ, but it is a question of whether the service is not Godward. Sometimes the word Lord is used in that connection, but in any case it would be right to use either.

J.W.D. Do you think the confirmation of any desire to serve in a special way comes to one as in the assembly rather than as individually before God?

J.T. Well, I think it is a question of what the Spirit is doing, whether these men had it in mind to be missionaries or not. I think they would have in mind what the Lord had said to Saul earlier, that he should

• "bear my name before both nations and kings and the sons of Israel", Acts 9: 15.

• Whether they had that definitely in mind or not, the Spirit of God is saying that He has two men there that He wishes to use. He is not taking them up in their own houses and telling them to go forth, but it is while the assembly is functioning, ministering to the Lord, that He says,
  • "Separate me now",

• as if the time had come for such an action; that the assembly was in such a state that it could be thus used. Whether the exercises of Barnabas and Saul agreed we are not told, but no doubt they were both concerned about this matter. They had been working together, they were evidently fitted to work together, and the Spirit says,now.

• It is not at a care meeting, but at a meeting for the service of God; the service is going on, as if the relation is very close between the ministers' going out and heaven.

S.McC. How could this take form practically in our day?

J.T. No doubt the thought would be that brethren who seek to serve in a general way might have the confidence of the assembly, that the Spirit might speak to the saints as to them.

• These brothers were serving before, serving here for a whole year together, but now they are sent out in a universal sense and the assembly is brought into it.

• I think the Spirit is stressing the importance of the assembly, what it was in the divine economy now becoming evident in a definite setting. We do not see it just so clearly heretofore; it is as if God waited for these two men to set out the thing as He would wish to have it set out.

J.R.H. Would the excellent condition of things in Antioch have a bearing on this matter? Evidently it was something like Corinth, enriched in doctrine and knowledge.

J.T. Yes, but it would be more than that, because they were actually functioning. Whether they had ever functioned in this way in Corinth is questionable.

• In the first two verses here they are proceeding in the service, and the persons are mentioned as distinguished in it. No doubt the secret of this is found in chapter 11 where it is said,
  • "And so it was with them that for a whole year they were gathered together in the assembly and taught a large crowd: and the disciples were first called christians in Antioch", verse 26.

• The service of Barnabas and Saul in this assembly was remarkable. The crowd would gradually merge into assembly formation. The word crowd does not denote such formation, but it is developed, so that they are spoken of as an assembly in chapter 13.

• The assembly involves real formation, and it became evident due to the work of these two men; so that the Spirit is clearly honouring them in asking that they be thus separated.

Ques. Do you take it that these five were gifted men?

J.T. I would think so. It says, "prophets and teachers", and then the names are given, Barnabas being mentioned first and Saul last.

• I think the clause "as they were ministering" ought to be noted, as it shows that the service was proceeding, and was so pleasing to the Spirit that He intervened just then.

J.H.Sr. Please say a word on verse 3

• "Then, having fasted and prayed, and having laid their hands on them, they let them go".

J.T. That is the next thing, and after the Spirit had spoken it was a suitable attitude for those that were there.

• But I think we ought to rest in the pleasure that the Spirit had in the situation as it was. God is bringing in instances of His operations at the beginning and one after another is pleasing to Him, so that now there is assembly formation and it is functioning.

• It is not a special meeting called for the purpose of separating these two brothers, or a fellowship meeting for them, but the assembly is functioning and the Spirit is calling attention to it. How pleased He is with it!

J.H.Sr. It is not ordination, it is simply identification.

J.T. It is simply identification. Laying on of hands is just that; any ordination there is by the Spirit.

W.J.C. In what way do you think the Holy Spirit spoke audibly in this instance?

J.T. Through some brother no doubt, but that brother is not distinguished. The Spirit is calling attention to Himself as operating in this way, having conditions such as are stated

• He is telling us that He takes note of conditions in a meeting like this; the local conditions are of prime importance.

W.L. Would you say that these two brothers had proved themselves locally at Antioch?

J.T. Surely. For a whole year they worked together.

A.N.W. Would the last statement of the Spirit in verse 2 – "for the work to which I have called them" – be a call of which they would severally be conscious?

J.T. I think so. It might refer back to some personal communication that they had had from the Spirit. It was already an existing fact, I should think, but now the assembly is called upon to separate them. It was to be an action of theirs.

A.E.H. No doubt the operations of the Spirit would be so smooth and accurate that the local conditions in regard to the service of God would not be seriously disrupted.

J.T. Clearly there were enough to carry on. The Spirit would not dislocate a local company by taking gifted persons from its midst; He would provide for that. There were sufficient to carry on – an important matter. There were three out of five, and probably others.

A.A.T. "And as they were ministering". What meeting would that be?

J.T. The Lord's supper might have entered into it. Clearly it was service to the Lord, and whether service is to the Lord personally or to God, still it is Godward.

• At this point the Spirit interrupts. He had interrupted Peter's address too, in chapter 10. It is a remarkable thing, but He has a right to do that.

• I would not like to interrupt a brother's address, but the Spirit of God has a right to do so. He fell on the hearers as Peter was preaching. Now He intervenes and says, "Separate me now Barnabas and Saul".

R.W.S. In Philip's case we have the way of the Holy Spirit with a Levite, in rapturing him; then in Corinth we have His ways in household conditions; but this is the top note, His service in the assembly.

J.T. Just so. This is the most exalted position, the divine economy operating in a local company.

L.K. Is fasting necessary for the Spirit to have opportunity to operate in this way?

J.T. Well, that is the general thought. Fasting makes room in us for God. God operates to make room for us, but there is also this matter that enters into our inquiry, that we make room for divine Persons.

S.McC. There is an expression current amongst us, in referring to certain ones leaving their employment to serve the saints, that they have 'gone out in the work', as though it would be a distinguishing mark over against those who are still in business. Do you think that expression is right?

J.T. Well, it is likely to be too formal, because we know Barnabas and Saul did very well before they were formally sent out, and others did too.

• Even after Paul was sent out, as we say, he worked with his hands, so that we cannot be too set. He worked with his hands at Corinth. How long he did it, whether all the time he was there, we do not know, but in any case he did it; and he did other things of that nature too, as he tells us in 1 Corinthians 9.

• Paul went without things instead of saying he must be provided with everything he needed; he waived that right, although he claimed that those who preached the gospel should live by the gospel.

• We cannot insist upon the responsibility of the saints to care for us if we say we are out in the work.

J.D. The position seems to be guarded; it says,

• "Then, having fasted and prayed, and having laid their hands on them, they let them go. They therefore, having been sent forth by the Holy Spirit, went down to Seleucia, and thence sailed away to Cyprus" verses 3-4.

• It would look as if the Holy Spirit would guard the sending; He was the Operator here.

J.T. That is good. We often assume that the assembly has properly supervision over the brethren in relation to their service.

• It should be repudiated. The assembly has not jurisdiction over a servant as such; all that is said here is that they laid their hands on them, showing identification with them. But the Spirit sent them forth, verse 4.

F.K.C. In connection with Saul, the Lord says to Ananias,

• "Go, for this man is an elect vessel to me, to bear my name before both nations and kings" chapter 9: 15.

• How would that work in with this matter of being sent forth by the Holy Spirit?

J.T. That was simply to adjust Ananias. It was not for Ananias to inform the assemblies that the Lord had said that to him. Ananias had no such place as that; the Lord was simply adjusting him so that he might be of help to Saul.

• The service alluded to is formally set out here, but Paul had been serving a good while before, though not separated by the assembly. This is properly the beginning of his service, a very important matter. Earlier his service corresponded with the Lord's service before John the baptist was cast into prison.

A.A.T. John went along with them, but he was not sent forth.

J.T. This is not John the apostle, it is John Mark. There was a company of them according to verse 13,

• "Paul and his company".

• That would hardly do now; still, it affords light for us.

H.B. Would you say why two are sent forth and not one?

J.T. That is another principle. One could be sent forth, but the general principle in service is two. The apostles were sent out two by two, and so were the seventy; and now Barnabas and Saul are sent forth together

• Ecclesiastes 4: 9 says, "Two are better than one",

• but the point is to get two men who can work together effectively.

R.W.S. Would this help in the question of the present restriction in the service because of conditions in the world? Would you bring the Spirit into the restrictions, such as those of the services over the oceans?

J.T. I think that being here and subject, one would regard that as the government of God, which is another line of thought.

• God causes restrictions, but it is another of His departments, as it were; it does not belong to the christian economy. Regulation of the world is not part of the christian economy; God has reserved that to Himself, as we saw yesterday in regard to the times and seasons which the Father has reserved in His own authority.

• The Spirit is operating within that overruling providence of God. Therefore if there are limitations, as at present, it is on account of the government of God.

• The Spirit would give us to understand that we are restricted to a certain extent and He would be with us in what we are doing. The situation is just to be accepted; the Spirit accepts it.

• However, what we have in chapter 16 shows that in another sense the ways are open in these days. It seems there were not many wars from the time of the Lord's birth down to the apostles' period of testimony, and that the great Roman system which was marked by the roads or ways was available and the Lord took account of that. Therefore the Roman system was a provision in the ways of God for the gospel.

• In these days we have wonderful provisions, ships, trains, planes and motor-cars. Nevertheless we are restricted, especially as to oceans, and the Spirit would say to us that that is the government of God; in truth our intelligence teaches us that.

• But our way is not wholly shut up, He gives us scope. Paul was shut up by a prison for four years, but the Spirit was not limited;
  • "the word of God is not bound", 2 Timothy 2: 9,

• so that we are never driven to the wall.

S.J.H. Is there any reason why two brothers should not seek to move together in this way today?

J.T. It is a question as to whether you could work together in this broken state of things.

• The Lord has chosen us and success is achieved by those who go out severally; but there is nothing to hinder two going together, we have seen it in our time; there have been many instances, but not lately.

• The point is for us to get light and to see whether we can conform to it, because we are limited and the limitation may prevent the light being carried out; but we are not tying our hands on that account. Whatsoever your hands find to do, do it.

• The lesson for the moment would be in local companies among which brethren are able to move about, receiving support from them, where there is support for a brother who is a comfort to them,
  • and where on the other hand those of us who are labouring would commend ourselves in such a way as to deserve support.

• Evidently these two brothers had earned support in serving a full year in this way.

Paul is put first in verse 13, "Paul and his company", which would seem as if the Spirit of God had put him forward. But in chapter 14: 1 we have,

• "it came to pass in Iconium that they entered together into the synagogue … and so spake that a great multitude … believed",

• which would look as if they both spoke well. They were together

• So it was with Peter and John at the beginning, at the Beautiful gate; they could say, "Look on us". There was something there to be seen in these two brothers.

• Here the point is that they could speak well and the result was largely because of that.

J.R.H. I wondered as to the lead in speaking with two working together.

J.T. It is clear that Paul himself worked at Corinth with two other brothers, Silvanus and Timotheus; he says,

• "… the Son of God … has been preached by us among you (by me and Silvanus and Timotheus)", 2 Corinthians 1: 19.

• That is remarkable. Possibly Paul listened to these two brothers preaching.

W.L. Do you think more might be accomplished by two or three brothers going together?

J.T. I do not know. The present circumstances seem to warrant just one going alone. It is a small state of things and we are very limited. I do not know that they would stay long together as things are.

• Servants working in pairs were more needed in pioneering and inaugural times, because of the importance of witnesses.

W.L. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

J.T. That is a good point. The Lord said as to the law of witness that the Father bore witness with Him as to His service. John 8: 16-18.

• I believe the exercise in our localities should be to make the current services more effective by support and fellowship extended to those who are serving. I think there is more than there used to be, but it is a prime thought.

• It is not a secondary thought to consider for what is current in the way of service; in the Scriptures the Levite comes before the poor in the distribution of material things.

E.F. Referring to our brother's remark as to those out in the work, sometimes there is more hesitancy in ministering to those who are also labouring at their own work than to those who are out altogether.

J.T. It is less so than it used to be. Levite is a word that relates to the assembly. The Levite should come first in our calculations; his needs are not a secondary thought, they come first.

• This passage is to show that they are a prime thought now in the minds of the assembly. The Spirit says, "Separate me now Barnabas and Saul". Two men are before the brethren in a first-rate way, and they go back to them after their labours are completed.
  • It says: "… thence they sailed away to Antioch, whence they had been committed to the grace of God for the work which they had fulfilled", Acts 14: 26.

• Evidently they did not lose ground among the brethren while they were away, for in the next chapter they were selected to go up to Jerusalem about the matter of circumcision.

A.A.T. Apparently the work to which they were called included only this one missionary trip, because later we find they did not continue on together.

J.T. But they finished the work, a final thought; "… the work which they had fulfilled", it says. That is, the matter is finished; that particular work is finished.

W.L. Would you say that the principle of laying on of hands is important?

J.T. It just means identification with the brethren in their work; but you would not think of brethren going out without it.

• It is for us to see that they have it; but if they cannot have it, then it is for them to look into the matter and find out whether they are really sent or not.

• But we must never assume to have control over the ministers.

A.N.W. Is the laying on of hands and letting them go on the part of the assembly as a whole, or only of the three pre-eminently involved in it?

J.T. I would think the whole assembly would be involved. It would be done representatively. They just let them go, implying that they did not wish them to go. Some might think, I am glad they are going because I shall have more scope when they are gone. But they "let them go" with their commendation and identification; the Holy Spirit is sending them out.

A.E.H. When you speak of the assembly in this sense, is it the local assembly?

J.T. Yes; that is the only way it can be looked at. The assembly at Antioch was never a metropolitan assembly. There never was a metropolitan assembly except at Jerusalem, nor ever will be until the new Jerusalem comes down, "our mother;" that is now the only metropolitan assembly.

A.E.H. It would be difficult to get the assembly in a broader sense to lay their hands on the brethren.

J.T. There is no need of that; but it is important to have the light of the thing in whatever little way we can make it work.

J.D. Do you think the apostle would bring the Romans into this that we are speaking of now? He says,

• "I hope to see you as I go through, and by you to be set forward", Romans 15: 24.

• Would he be counting on their helping him forward in his service?

J.T. I think so; I think he would make Rome a basis for his operations in moving westward. That is the principle.

• He was then, I suppose, in the Corinthian region, but his settings out would not be all from there; the universal care of things would be in his mind.

• Rome would set him out again to send him forward to Spain, that is the way he looked at it. He never really reached Spain so far as we can see, because he was taken as a prisoner to Rome.

A.A.T. Do you think it is a good thing that the Levites report when they get home?

J.T. Well, we want to carry all this light, yet we have not got the assembly as the vessel of administration as it was at the beginning.

• The thing is to be humble and simple about it. Conform to the light as far as is possible with divine support.

• We have no such assembly as Antioch; but still, if you do come back from a long trip it is good to tell the brethren something of what you have done.

• God is showing us here the relation between the assembly and the ministers. They are universal.

T.S. Do you think such a report would work out happily, not only in contributions called forth, but in the meeting for prayer as to the work?

J.T. Just so. That is very important. This sending forth by the Holy Spirit is a beautiful matter. How effective the ministers were when the Spirit was brought in in any way, as in the last verse of chapter 13!

• The disciples were filled with joy and the Holy Spirit. This is the fruit of their work. To follow up this thought in chapter 16, it says,
  • "And having passed through Phrygia and the Galatian country, having been forbidden by the Holy Spirit to speak the word in Asia, having come down to Mysia, they attempted to go to Bithynia, and the Spirit of Jesus did not allow them", verses 6-7.

• These are remarkable statements. First the Holy Spirit forbade them to speak the word of God in Asia, meaning the province of Asia, not the continent.

• The Holy Spirit would not let them: how can you work that out? It is to bring out the activity of the Spirit, His activity negatively, hindering you from going to a place, not simply by physical circumstances, but by the direct action of the Spirit Himself. Chapter 16 shows how.

Ques. Does Eleazar's position in Numbers and throughout illustrate the Spirit's oversight? That is the word used in connection with him.

J.T. Yes; he was the prince of the princes of the Levites. That sort of thing was working even in Aaron's time. It would suggest the Spirit as here; of whom Eleazar is a type moving down here amongst us – operating amongst us.

A.A.T. The Spirit would know what was going on at Philippi.

J.T. Surely. The two restrictions here are to show that the Spirit is thinking of the assembly, and the territory which would yield most for the assembly.

• Persons pass over this matter as nothing, but, it is something. Why should the Spirit of God be occupied negatively in Asia, saying you are not to preach there?

• Later there were seven assemblies in Asia, but He is saying that Paul is not to work there just now; that is the first thing.
  • "Having been forbidden by the Holy Spirit to speak the word in Asia, … they attempted to go into Bithynia",

• and they are blocked again; not by a world war, but by the direct action of the Spirit. So that we may be restricted by the Spirit Himself as well as by war conditions. That is a matter worthy of attention.

A.H.B. What distinction would you make between the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Jesus?

J.T. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit Himself here, spoken of relatively in the presence of corruption. Holy implies that.

• But the Spirit of Jesus, as we were alluding to it earlier, would refer to manhood in Europe. Some might think that is stretching the thing, but I do not think it is. Manhood in Europe is an important matter with God.

• The disposition of the posterity of Noah is no accident; the book of Genesis shows that the distribution of the sons of Noah is under God. Japheth is in mind, his name means spreading. Japheth is the great colonising race extending westward, and I believe the Spirit of Jesus means that it is the man, Christ Jesus, that is to be worked out in the western world.

• I believe that is what is meant by this; that the Spirit of Jesus did not allow them. He does not tell them what to do; it is a negative setting. Do not go there, He says; it is for you to find out where you are to go.

Then the next thing is a vision appearing to Paul in the night. There was a certain Macedonian man, notice that. I think he should be compared with "the Spirit of Jesus".

• The classics would say Alexander was that man, but it is not Alexander at all. It is the Man Christ Jesus who is in mind, and the men that He is sending are like Himself.

• So this man, it is said, is standing and beseeching Paul to pass over into Macedonia and help them. The Spirit is not saying this, it is a vision.

Now the servant has to sit down and pray about this matter. What does it mean? It says,

• "… we sought to go forth to Macedonia, concluding that the Lord had called us to announce to them the glad tidings".

• "The Lord had called us", as if it were the Lord Himself now who was dealing with the matter. It was the Man, Christ Jesus; the Spirit of Jesus. It is the Lord with authority. He had called them, as the word is,
  • "concluding that the Lord had called us to announce to them glad tidings".

  • So that "Having sailed therefore away from Troas, we went in a straight course to Samothracia, and on the morrow to Neapolis, and thence to Philippi, which is the first city of that part of Macedonia, a colony", verses 11-12.

• The word "colony" is remarkable; the colonial idea is introduced and has had a great place in the whole history of Europe up to the present moment. The British system especially represents it.

A.A.T. The first person they come into contact with is a woman, not a man.

J.T. That is the next thing; but this is a definite matter, that the Spirit of Jesus disallows them to go to a certain place.

• Then there is the vision of the Macedonian man. Who that man was we have to consider later, whether the jailor or some other; but the Philippian assembly certainly bears the character of Christ. It is to that assembly that the apostle speaks of
  • "the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ".

• The Spirit of Jesus Christ would produce men like Jesus.

J.R.H. All the assemblies of Macedonia are well spoken of.

J.T. It is as you see today: in some places a great deal for God and in other places nothing.

• But we must be attentive to the Spirit, even negatively; there may be something going on in a provisionary sense in your mind and you might say, I never thought of that; and then it came to my mind to do so and so. Well, that may have a vague correspondence with the vision that Paul had.

J.D. Would the Spirit of Jesus be identified with the thought of manhood in these men?

J.T. That is what I was thinking; the Spirit of Jesus Christ; a good supply of that.

• What exercises Paul must have had! It was a very exercising time because they were passing over into another continent. The turning of a wall has to be strengthened; we get that in the Scripture.

• Now this is something like that. It is remarkable what these ministers do as a result of the Spirit's forbidding, and then of the vision.

R.W.S. This is a large matter, not like the little book which I think you have alluded to as being the history of Europe. This great matter has to do with Europe and its outgoings.

J.T. I think it includes the colonies of the European countries, especially this country.

• Up to the last fifty years this country [Canada] was under a certain amount of suspicion among the brethren, and perhaps rightly so, but I think God has come in and shown how the work will proceed in a small way on the principle of these verses we have just read.

• The Macedonian man is a man according to Christ, and such men being developed in this country, where the man after the flesh has had such a place, is a triumph for God.

J.D. Would a colony suggest the thoughts of equality of rights? The footnote reads, 'Where the citizens had equal rights with those at the capital'.

J.T. That is another consideration, they had citizen rights. We want citizen rights of a heavenly sort. Territory does not affect our citizen rights at all, it is a question of the calling of God wherever we are.

Now the final thought is in chapter 15, alluding, we might say, to the care meeting.

• Of course this is a very great thought, a metropolitan thought which we cannot have now. It is a question of the assembly at Jerusalem. Verses 22-28.

• That is, there is a decision reached and now the question is whether the Spirit is with it; and He is. It is remarkable.
  • "It has seemed good", it says, "to the Holy Spirit and to us".

• Undoubtedly the whole proceeding described earlier involved the Holy Spirit Himself.

J.R.H. How would you arrive today at the sense of the Spirit's approval in the care meeting?

J.T. It is a great exercise. This chapter shows that the action is from the apostles and the elders and the whole assembly, the Holy Spirit joining in.

• Therefore it would be a question of how the brothers treat a matter in care; whether they see to it that a good spirit prevails, because, if there is a contentious spirit, you hardly realise that the Spirit of God is there at all.

• It is very important to have the sense that the Spirit is there, you would be sensitive to that; argumentation precludes that. If things are right we feel as we proceed that we have feelings in keeping with the Spirit of God.

• So here Paul and Barnabas were allowed to speak about the work of God among the gentiles, which would be a very encouraging matter. It would be most interesting to hear Paul tell of what God did through them in different countries, and Barnabas standing up and confirming it.

• The apostles and elders were gathered together to see about this matter, and after much discussion Peter stands up and speaks authoritatively, recalling what we had in chapter 10, that it was through him the gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and that God should obtain a people from among them.

• Then we have the narration by Barnabas and Paul, and finally James stands up and says, 'my sentence is …'. Is there a wise man among us? What can we do in the care meeting without a wise man? It is not a long argument here, but someone is able to say what carries the mind of God.

• He says, 'My sentence is …', and then he quotes from the prophet Amos and his statement is accepted. Then the assembly is brought in and the Holy Spirit too.

• How can we tell that the Holy Spirit is brought in? It is by the feelings you have; you get impressions from the Holy Spirit that what is being said at the care meeting pleases Him as you make room for Him. It is the state of the saints that is involved.

A.H.P. Would James' action encourage the brethren to bring their Bibles to the care meeting?

J.T. I think it is good to have them.

A.N.W. Does the expression seemed good involve that the matter was not followed on too rigidly?

J.T. I think that is good to ask. It fits in with what we are saying about the state of our souls; it is when we are fasting, making room for the Spirit through fasting, that we get impressions as we go along.

• What the brethren said was right and they reached the right conclusion; then the whole assembly is brought in, and the Holy Spirit endorses what is done.

• I believe the idea is that the state of the brethren being right in dealing with a matter, we are made conscious as we proceed that the Spirit is with us.

Ques. Will you say a word as to fasting?

J.T. It is self-judgment, disallowing what interferes with the Spirit. It implies abstention from food or other things in themselves good, but abstained from for spiritual advantage.

• Ceremonial abstinence as to meats, and what is commonly called prohibition, have hindered christians from fasting in the true or scriptural sense, but disregard of it, or the spirit of it, causes spiritual damage.

• Dwelling means place or scope made for Him.

Hence the Lord said to His apostles, before leaving them, that they should remain in the city of Jerusalem until they were clothed with power from on high.

• Repentance and remission of sins should be preached to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem, but it should be preached by suitable preachers – such as should be in accord with such a message to men: that is to say, they should be clothed with power from on high – not with the habiliments that belong normally to professed servants.

• It is not a question of material clothes, but of spiritual clothes, and all who essay to preach the gospel of repentance and remission of sins should see to it that they have these clothes. They are distributed from heaven.

• They are of heavenly material, and have, so to speak, the heavenly cut, so that even the apostles, wonderfully instructed as they were by the Lord, were to remain in the city of Jerusalem until they should be clothed with power from on high – not simply power – but power from on high.

And then we find the same persons, as if to confirm this great point of view in Luke, continually in the temple.

• The great High Priest Himself had lifted up His hands and blessed them, and as He blessed them He was parted from them and carried up into heaven.

• The kind of service He had rendered on earth as divinely presented by Luke, was such as heaven had pleasure in. We must never forget in our service that we have to say to heaven in regard to it. It is true that those who listen are to judge, but we have to say to heaven. We have to take account that heaven has to be pleased with it. If it be otherwise, we miss divine approval.

• And so Luke presented the personal service of Christ, and after He finishes His service on earth He is carried up. Heaven is so pleased with Him that He is carried up. It is not in Luke a question of His dignity as a divine Person, but as a man here in the service of God.

• And His service is so delightful, so simple, and heavenly in its character that heaven claims Him, and He was carried up into heaven. And then the disciples return to Jerusalem, it is said, with great joy, and were continually in the temple praising and blessing God.

Well now, I want to show you from these verses in chapter 24, as I proceed by the Lord's help, what was intended to be set out in the assembly, in other words, in those gathered, for Luke emphasises the idea of gathering. He alone presents to us the disciples in this way. They were gathered together.

• I read from Chronicles to show you the correspondence with Luke in this regard. In the chapter I have read, David has become the gathering point. The Holy Spirit in that book, as I have said, begins with Adam, and leads up to David. In chapter 12 David is the centre of gathering.

• Jacob had said in his remarkable blessing of the tribes, that the sceptre should not depart from Judah until Shiloh came, and unto him should be the gathering of the people: that is to say, Christ was to be the centre of gathering. And as He becomes the centre of gathering, the house is set in order for God.

• So that in the next chapter to that which I have read in Chronicles, David consults with every captain and every leader, and appeals to all Israel that they should be assembled together to bring up the ark of God.

• If you have got the divine centre, and if you are gathered to that centre, then you will see how consideration that is according to God is obtained for the ark. David considered for the ark, for he said,
  • "I will not give sleep to mine eyes, or slumber to mine eyelids, until I find out a place for the Lord, an habitation for the mighty God of Jacob". Psalm 132: 4-5.

  • Then he says, too, "We heard of it at Ephratah: we found it in the fields of the wood". Psalm 132: 6.

• Many of us hear of it, but few of us find it. It is one thing, beloved, to hear a thing, but it is another thing to find the thing: as Philip said,
  • "We have found him". John 1: 45.

• David heard of the ark and found the ark, and he would find a habitation for it – no less than that – a place in which God could rest, one in which there would be no disturbing element.

• That is what David had in his heart, so that he was a remarkable type of the Lord Jesus in that respect, who would not give sleep to His eyes or slumber to His eyelids, who could say, too,
  • "the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up". Psalm 69: 9.

• If the Lord took sleep, it was when need was not present, but when sinners were around Him, He was awake and active: and so David was a fitting representative of Him.

• He consults with the captains and the leaders, and with all the people, and he assembled all Israel. In the principle of gathering, we must have in view every believer: sectional or party lines are not divine lines.

• You gather with the people, for Shiloh includes all the people. David had that in view in order to bring up the ark, and then the place is prepared – he spread a tent there.

Referring again to chapter 12, I shall go back to show you how David the king became the centre of gathering in three distinct connections.

1. The first was in Ziklag,

2. the second was in the wilderness,

3. and the third was in Hebron.

• If we understand what it is to be gathered to the Lord, dear brethren, we have to analyse this twelfth chapter, and see what these different positions signify for us. A very great weight of responsibility attaches to us – I mean to the assembly.

• As I was saying, in Chronicles the testimony begins with Adam and comes on to David. David had a true estimate of responsibility attaching to him, and so in regard to the building of the temple, he passes on the sense he had of the responsibility devolving upon him.

• If you read the closing chapters, you will see how perfect he was in the sense of responsibility. No one is of worth or moral value in the house of God save he who has the sense of responsibility.

• In the fourteenth chapter of 1 Corinthians – a part of Scripture bearing directly on ourselves – the apostle says,
  • "The things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord". 1 Corinthians 14: 37.

David cherished the principle of gathering, and he passed on to Solomon the whole burden of responsibility in regard to the testimony.

• There is the principle of passing on responsibility: and it has now come to us. Now, let no one shirk that. It is in seeing and accepting responsibility as to the testimony, that you come into divine power. Divine power is available to support those in this responsibility,
  • "upon whom the ends of the ages have come", 1 Corinthians 10: 11.

• There may be someone here who has never faced responsibility. There is the responsibility of the sinner, as having to say to God about his sins, but redemption has been accomplished, and so, beloved, the Lord Jesus has taken up that responsibility and settled it for eternity for those who believe.

• Jerusalem had its opportunity in the Lord coming to it, but it refused it, and so it has come in for the awful responsibility of all the righteous blood shed upon the earth from Abel to Christ: and so that city is suffering today – wrath having come upon them – the Jew – to the uttermost.

• The assembly began in Jerusalem free from all this, for God had dealt with the sin of its members. The members of the assembly were set up free from all such responsibility: but then the responsibility of the testimony has come to us: all that God has set out from Abel onward has come on us, and it has to be preserved by us until the Lord comes and takes it up again Himself. At the present time, the obligation of it rests with us.

But to refer again to chapter 12 David is bound up with the three positions indicated there.

• The first is in Ziklag. Certain ones came to him there, that is to say, certain of us come to Christ, so to speak, at Ziklag. Thus we have come into the light of Romans. Ziklag signifies that everything that was lost is recovered.

• We all know how the Amalekite invaded the land and took everything that was in the city. It was a disaster – nothing less. David wept until he had no more power to weep, but then he encouraged himself in the Lord his God, and in that encouragement and in that strength he recovered all. Now that is written in view of the Lord.

• The Lord Jesus coming into this world felt the state of things. He could not but have felt, as no one else could, the awful disaster that has come to the race. All was ruin – all was seemingly irretrievably lost. I have no doubt that the weeping of David is a type of the Lord's own feeling even unto death –
  • "My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death". Matthew 26: 38.

• He felt as no one could the awfulness of what had come in, for He knew the divine thoughts for man, but He recovered all.

• It is a great thing for you young people as gathered, as come into fellowship, to get that light into your souls. If the enemy seems to be triumphing, this light will stand by you, and the Lord Himself will stand by you: He will always do it, as we trust in Him.

Then, the next point of gathering is in the stronghold in the wilderness. That is another feature, and a very comforting one.

• In coming into fellowship you are being made conscious of hostile power. You are sure to be attacked.

• The enemy will never let you alone. He never does, and hence the need of the stronghold in the day of trouble, and that stronghold is where the Lord is, in the fellowship of the people of God, and it is the sphere of protection.

• I want you to note that the more you proceed on this line, the more encouraged you are, and the more recompensed you are. You find in the assembly that everything is recovered, nothing is lost, and then you find too in it a place of security. There are walls, and so it is a stronghold in the wilderness.

• But then you have to accept the wilderness. Ziklag is not exactly the wilderness: it represents, as I said, the recovery of everything for God, and for us, in Christ. But the wilderness is what the world has become to us.

• There is opposition in the wilderness, and we have to accept that, and in the accepting of it, we come to Christ for protection, so there is this sphere of protection – the stronghold in the wilderness.

Then, finally, there is Hebron. If you come to Christ in the light of Hebron, you get into the light of the counsels of God.

• You find as you proceed in the gain of fellowship that you have come into a line of things that is outside of this world. Have we understood this? It is a new world, yet it is older than the present one, for it goes back to the counsels of God.

• Years in the realm of decay are one thing, but years in the realm of light, of life are another. Hebron is not years in the realm of decay. We have to do in this world with what is old, with what is decayed. In this world years are spent in the realm of darkness and death, but in Hebron we have what was before the world, as the apostle says in Corinthians,
  • "The hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory". 1 Corinthians 2: 7.

  "Now Hebron had been built seven years before Zoan in Egypt", Numbers 13: 22. "They are but fools, the princes of Zoan, the wise counsellors of Pharaoh: [their] counsel is become senseless. How say ye unto Pharaoh, I am the son of the wise, the son of ancient kings? Where are they then, thy wise [men]? Let them now tell thee, and let them make known what Jehovah of hosts hath purposed upon Egypt. The princes of Zoan are become foolish, the princes of Noph are deceived; and the corner-stones of its tribes have caused Egypt to err", Isaiah 19: 11-13. "But we speak wisdom among the perfect; but wisdom not of this world, nor of the rulers of this world, who come to nought. But we speak God's wisdom in [a] mystery, that hidden [wisdom] which God had predetermined before the ages for our glory: which none of the princes of this age knew, (for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory)", 1 Corinthians 2: 6-8.

• It antedates this world, and as I said, has never come into the realm of death and darkness or of decay. Peter speaks of divine things as in relation to a world of suffering, but Hebron is what is before the world: the wisdom that God ordained before the world. What do we know of that, dear brethren?

• The wisdom of this world comes to nought, but the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the world to our glory is what we have part in, that is, as we understand the reality of what it is to be gathered to David in Hebron – to Christ in the light of divine purpose.

What we read is that all these men who had gathered to David come with a perfect heart – perfect in unison to make David king. David's men are not thinking of themselves, they are thinking of David, and what you find is that there is abundance: as it says in the passage,

• "And there they were with David … eating and drinking".

  You see in it the thought of the assembly as gathered in one place – come together for mutual contribution, and edification, and even an unbeliever is not excluded. We read as to those who came to Hebron, that "their brethren had prepared for them", and they were there eating and drinking for three days.

Now I want you just to note all that, as I wish to connect it with Luke 24.