Ecclesiasticism, Fellowship, 'Brethrenism'
and related matters
Ministry by F. E. Raven – Part Two

F.E.R. Then there is another thing that enters in, that is the state of the church.

• I do not believe for a moment that in the existing state of things it is possible to realise things as they did at the beginning.

J.T. That makes the situation very difficult. The thing may be plain enough to us, but the realising of it is a different matter.

F.E.R. I do not believe it would be of the Spirit of God to allow us to completely ignore or be unaffected by the condition of the church.

J.S.A. And yet what we are not directly responsible for we have to accept.

F.E.R. You get the same thing in the last days of Israel, there was a godly and pious people who were going on according to God; they spake often one to another, but they were affected by the general condition of Israel.

• Take Simeon for instance, waiting for the coming of the Lord, saying "lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: for mine eyes have seen thy salvation".

• Just think what an anomaly, wanting to depart in peace when he had seen God's salvation. He ought to have wanted to live. But he knew Israel was going to reject Christ.

• He said, "this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against". Therefore Simeon does not pray to live.

• He virtually says, I have come to an end of all expectation; I have seen the desire of all flesh, let me depart in peace.

R.S.S. It is greatly in contrast to Hezekiah and both were Israelites.

F.E.R. Simeon was a man told by the Holy Spirit that he should not see death until he had seen Jehovah's Christ, and he was content to pass away because he saw what the presentation of Christ to Israel would mean.

J.T. The eunuch on the same line was also content to accept it. Do you think it would be well to accept the condition of things at the present time; the tendency is to set up something pretentious.

F.E.R. I think brethren have been diligent to set up a nice little pattern of the church.

J.T. And to call that the assembly of God at Rochester or elsewhere.

F.E.R. Something of that kind.

J.T. What one notices is that that seems to drown individual faith in the Lord and resting in Him.

F.E.R. I have said many times if I were challenged as to my connection with any body of christians on earth

• I would say that I have no connection with any body special and I would mean it.

R.S.S. You do not mean any person?

F.E.R. Any person if you like.

W.M. You mean that you are connected with all christians.

F.E.R. I have no more connection with one than another; the only difference is we cannot all walk together, but walking does not establish any special connection.

R.S.S. Does not the question of fellowship come in?

F.E.R. Fellowship is universal. In a way I have fellowship with persons in system as with others.

W.L.P. How far would fellowship go with christians in system?

F.E.R. I would seek to walk in the light as God is in the light, and if another man does that I would walk with him.

W.M. You can take a longer walk with some people than with others.

F.E.R. If a man has his elbows out you cannot walk very close to him.

R.S.S. We speak of 'our fellowship'.

F.E.R. If you mean christian fellowship I do not mind. If you mean a special fellowship I object very much.

R.S.S. Would you not speak of a person being received into fellowship?

F.E.R. We only admit that that man is fit to walk with christians anywhere.

W.M. When you speak of our fellowship you mean christians anywhere.

F.E.R. Exactly. We have to get out of the idea of a special and select community which is a little pattern church.

W.M. If a person is put away, he is put out of the whole church on earth.

F.E.R. We put a person away because that person is not fit to walk with any christians, not because he does not please us.

• He is engaged in such a course of conduct that he is not fit to walk with any christians.

• You want to be very sure that he is not fit for the company of any christians before you decline to walk any more with him.

J.T. We shall have to think about that a good bit.

F.E.R. The more you think of it the better. I have thought of it a good bit myself.

A.H.E. The danger of the other thing is that we become pharisaical.

F.E.R. And are very well content with it. I think we ought to contend earnestly in the present day against what we may call brethrenism.

J.S.A. One great beauty of the writings of John is that it is the moral side, nothing ecclesiastical that is in view.

F.E.R. So, too, when you come to 2 Timothy you do not get a word about anything ecclesiastical – all is moral. You have to be a vessel unto honour. Then again, "Flee also youthful lusts".

J.T. It is a very natural thing to break bread with people.

F.E.R. It is right to walk together if you are agreed. Then we are right in seeking as far as we possibly can to act in the light of the church, but with the sense that we are not the church.

• That is the only guidance or direction that we have. We do not assume to be anything, but to act in the light of the church. I could plead with God in regard of it.

J.T. It is quite natural we should seek to get all the light we can to make the most of the situation.

W.M. What we have belongs to all.

G.W.H. We avail ourselves of it and the others do not.

F.E.R. It is a great thing to get into the region of the Spirit; to retire from all that is of flesh and man and human order. There is no real christianity outside of the Spirit of God.

G.W.H. And all pretension of any kind is contrary to that.

Ques. That being the case, can you put a person out of fellowship?

F.E.R. What that means is, that I am not going to walk with him, if he is a wicked person.

• You get a man who is a liar or a perjurer or a thief, I am not going to walk with that man. That is a simple thing to my mind.

• As to the mere form of putting him away from fellowship, that does not matter to me.

J.T. You say you cannot. What about others?

F.E.R. They must give him up, too, or I cannot walk with them.

J.S.A. In 2 Timothy you get permanent instruction for individuals. If I find any going on with God I am bound to go on with them.

G.R. You made a remark about the region of the Spirit. Being in that region seems to be apart from the world and the flesh, because He convicts the world of sin and He resists the flesh.

F.E.R. That is what I maintain. If you get there you get out of the world and the flesh and human order. All christendom is set up according to human order.

• They were tested in early days, and then in order to check the evil, they set up the best order they knew, but it was human order.

• I have no doubt the introduction of elders and bishops came in as human order to check evil.

• If you get into the region of the Spirit you get outside all human order. You cannot have any clergy there.

• In the earlier days elders and deacons were men full of the Holy Spirit. We have to go back to where things began, to get into the region of the Spirit, and then you get outside of all human order and organisation.

W.M. These men undertook their work in the power of the Spirit.

G.W.H. The office was a spiritual one rather than official.

F.E.R. What they did they had to carry out by the Spirit.

J.T. I want to find out a little more about the man you could not walk with. Cannot the saints act in the light of the church?

F.E.R. I think they have to act in the light of the church; that you cannot have fellowship with such a person.

Ques. How about a christian in system? Would you speak of him as a brother?

F.E.R. Yes, unless he was guilty of some bad course.

R.S.S. Do you think the apostle spoke to the Corinthians in that way in order to awaken a sense in them of what was in keeping with what they were?

F.E.R. That is so, but at the same time the value to us is not their correction, but is the substantive truth the Spirit of God brings out.

J.S.A. And we are not altogether free from some of the snares that they were in.

F.E.R. I think not. What brought me out of the Church of England was the recognition of the presence of the Spirit.

• I saw that the system of the Church of England was inconsistent with the presence of the Spirit.

• Then with that I began to see, like a great many others, that the idea of a clergy was contrary to the thought of the body of Christ,
  • because if the body be a figure employed in regard to the church, it allows no pre-eminence in any particular member.

• My eye does not claim any preeminence; it serves my foot. On the other hand, my foot answers to my eye.

J.P. And there could be no independence either.

W.M. They are all unselfishly interested in one another.

F.E.R. So if one member suffer all suffer; if one be honoured all rejoice with it.

• If you get a man declining in spirituality all the members suffer. On the other hand, if you get a member who is increasing in devotedness and usefulness, all the members rejoice with it.

W.M. It is rather remarkable that what recovers saints lies in the Spirit.

F.E.R. Yes. The first point of recovery of late years was the recognition of the presence of the Spirit.

R.S.S. What do you refer to?

J.P. There is one point you differed from, that is in regard to walk. I think you said, 'walking' was not exactly a moral activity of the soul, but it was a little more than that. What is your idea of it?

F.E.R. I think it is, properly speaking, our conversation down here, and that is in the light. Paul uses the word 'conversation', and that is a very good word.

J.P. You mean conversation in the sense of our whole moral deportment.

F.E.R. Yes. It is in the light. If a man does not walk in the light you have no conclusion to draw, but that that man is still in the darkness of heathendom or judaism, in which God was not known.

• God was not known in judaism. They had the oracles of God, but He was not known.

Rem. You could hardly make that hard and fast distinction now, because we are neither touching idolatry nor judaism.

F.E.R. In a certain sense all christendom walks in the light.

Rem. It says, "If we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another". That seems to restrict it more than in the broad sense of christendom.

F.E.R. But every person in christendom ought to claim fellowship with you.

Rem. It hardly occurred to me that I ought to claim fellowship with every one in christendom.

F.E.R. You ought to claim every person in christendom as your brother.

G.R. That would be the normal state of things.

F.E.R. That is the ground on which christendom is.

J.P. John is not abnormal, but rather normal.

F.E.R. It is the test of things. If you claimed the fellowship of everybody in christendom I am afraid you would meet with a great many refusals.

W.M. But one has a sort of right to claim it because of their profession.

F.E.R. You get this. "For as many of you as have been baptised into Christ have put on Christ". All christendom has put Christ on, except the Quakers, and a few others.

E.A. Is that putting on the profession of Christ?

Rem. It is, you take them up on their own ground.

F.E.R. Scripture does that. You get that over and over again in the addresses to the churches in the Revelation, and so too in other places.

• And mark this: christianity has been an enormous public benefit in the world. People have been benefited immensely by the fact of christianity having come in.

Rem. I was very much struck with it, talking with a man who I do not think was a christian, but he admitted he would not care to live in any country where the Bible was not accepted. He recognised in that sense the gain of christianity.

F.E.R. Take China. There was much more light there three or four thousand years ago than there was in Western Europe, but there has been very little material advance there.

• Where has the material advance been in the world? Where christianity is.

• People were kept under superstition in the time of popery, but when the reformation came in, it brought in material advance and what the world has got in material advance and humanity and invention has been to a very large extent an effect of christianity.

• The world has gained enormously, and I have no doubt this brings in with it a large amount of responsibility.

• Christianity meant on the part of God the stay of judgment; naturally on the rejection of Christ judgment would have come in, and the world system would have come to a close, but the introduction of christianity has stayed judgment.

• Then salvation and the light of christianity came in, and, to a large extent, delivered the mind of man from superstition, and things under which the mind of man was in bondage, and gave an enormous impetus to the advancement of intelligence.

Rem. I suppose that that ought to prepare the minds of men to accept the fact that Christ is Head.

F.E.R. I think so. It entails a great responsibility.

J.P. I see, too, how practically important it is for us to have right thoughts with regard even to the matter of fellowship. It is the one thing that will save us from unscriptural narrowness.

F.E.R. But do you not think it is right to claim fellowship with any one who professes to be a christian?

J.P. It certainly is right.

Ques. Have you always thought that way, Mr. P.?

J.P. No, but I trust I have grown a little. I should hate to be like China, stagnated.

F.E.R. You know, "If we walk in the light, as he is in the light", is not intended for a description of brethren. It is in the sense of children walking in the light of their parents.

G.W.H. Would you say that while we have a right to claim fellowship with all people we should be very disappointed when we come to seek it?

F.E.R. Yes.

Rem. I suppose the claim you would make would be of christian fellowship.

F.E.R. Yes. If a man claims to be a christian, you assume that he is walking in the light, and if he is walking in the light we have fellowship one with another.

W.B-t. Does not fellowship suppose the thought of opposition?

F.E.R. I think it supposes the thought of contrariety. And if I went among Jews or heathen I would expect contrariety; Jews refuse Christ as revelation, hence I could not have any fellowship with them.

Rem. The thought of fellowship would only agree with those who were really walking in the light.

F.E.R. It is only practicable there, because the light is the bond. The partnership of half a dozen people would not be rightly maintained unless every member conformed to the articles of partnership.

• The articles of our partnership are the light, and it is as we understand the light that we are true to the partnership. Fellowship is really partnership.

J.S.A. And the fellowship to which we are called is the fellowship of the Son of God, Jesus Christ our Lord.

F.E.R. Because He is the light. So is the Spirit in a way, but the Spirit is the truth. It is all a question of the light.

W.M. Christian fellowship is dependent on walking in the light.

F.E.R. But that is assumed. Walking in the light is simply christianity. It is not brethren.

F.E.R. And the reason we are so little impressed is because of the poverty of the witness. The word of God sounded out in the early days. How poorly it is sounding out now!

Ques. Do you think God is accomplishing His purposes largely independent of the feeble witness?

F.E.R. I cannot tell. God will surely accomplish His purposes.

• There is no doubt it is the end of the dispensation, and what is going on now is largely the gathering in of the fragments that remain, that nothing be lost. I do not think striking results are likely to be seen.

• A kind of sorting is going on, like as in the net brought in, and there is gathering the good into vessels and casting away the bad.

J.S.A. If we are sensible of the weakness of the witness, all we can do is to see to it that we are in the good of the thing ourselves.

F.E.R. What I would strongly object to is an effort to set up a small witness. You must admit the circle is broken and obscured, but all we can do is individually to keep ourselves right in relation to the centre.

W.M. The Son of God has come.

F.E.R. Yes, and we are not lawless; we are in attachment.

Ques. Do we get the correction of that in 2 Timothy?

F.E.R. I think so, and in that way you seek to be a vessel unto honour sanctified and meet for the Master's use and prepared unto every good work.

• You are in attachment and so it is you follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, not with the entire circle, but with those that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

G.R. Is it not illustrated in the remnant in Malachi, "they that feared the Lord", that is attachment, "spake often one to another", they had the circle in a sense?

Ques. And is it not also alluded to in Luke 2 where the remnant were waiting for the Redeemer?

F.E.R. I think so. Of course there is always a difficulty, in connection with the church, in speaking of a remnant.

• In Israel the remnant really consisted of all the godly. Now brethren arc not a remnant because there are a great many really in the church who are not among brethren.

• We are so liable to get into a kind of brethrenism. You must recognise the entire circle. We can stand in our relation to the centre.

  … let us be on our guard against assuming to be a body of believers, a family apart from all the children of God, it is false and not according to the mind of God. JT 11: 65, Newcastle 1919.

W.M. So the only company we could recognise in Indianapolis is all the christians in Indianapolis.

F.E.R. Quite so. You cannot have an inner circle.

J.F. What would answer to us would be, "Keep yourselves in the love of God".

F.E.R. Yes. You get the Holy Spirit, God and Christ. You pray in the Holy Spirit; you keep yourselves in the love of God, and look for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

W.B–s. How about going along with those who profess to be in the principles of 2 Timothy 2?

F.E.R. I think the only way to get on according to the passage you quote is to be right in relation to the centre.

• The apostle says, "Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee".

• The point is to look to yourself and the doctrine. I suppose if every one of us had that in mind it would be better.

G.W.H. And to know Him that is true, in contrast with all the failure around.

F.E.R. Quite so.

R.M.L. Would you say a word about calling on the Lord out of a pure heart?

F.E.R. You look for people in whom there is a work of God. You cannot take people up simply on the ground of profession.

• You must follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

• It appears to me that a pure heart is evidence of a work of God. You must look for that now.

R.M.L. A christian in system might say he called on the Lord out of a pure heart.

F.E.R. But he is not right as to the centre. He connects Christ with this world, but Christ is the centre of another world.

• He is, so far, lawless, in his own sense of things. Christ is the beginning and centre morally of another world.

J.S.A. It is not what a man says he is, but what he really is, and you must form a judgment of that if you are going to walk with him.

W.B–s. How does individual service stand in regard to the circle?

F.E.R. I think it is simple. We do all we can to serve one another and indeed serve everybody.

G.W.H. "Let us do good unto all men, especially to them who arc of the household of faith".

Ques. What claim have those in the church who are lawless, on the servants?

F.E.R. You must be a little careful about their being lawless, because except as to their intelligence and conduct, you cannot speak of that.

• If I speak of a man as being lawless that man is not in attachment at all.

• I could not speak of every man with whom I cannot walk as being lawless absolutely.

Ques. Well then servants are servants of the entire church. Then what claim have christians in system on the servants of God?

F.E.R. Every claim. The responsibility of the servant is toward all. You are bound to serve every christian.

O.O'B. You do not mean by that, if those in a system claimed me to go in and preach the gospel in their system, that I should go.

F.E.R. I know that question has been raised. The best answer I ever heard given was by Mr. Darby.

• He objected to going into chapels because it did not appear to him quite honest; for if he went and preached there what he desired to preach, it would have the effect of bringing the chapel about people's ears, and he did not feel it was quite honest.

O.O'B. Well he told me another thing in regard to his going into them in Chicago. 'I did go, but I will never go again'. He believed the whole thing was wrong.

F.E.R. I have heard him take that ground in regard to America. You cannot build again the things you have destroyed.

• So as to preaching in theatres; the theatre managers are well pleased to get preaching in the theatres because it puts a sanction on the theatre; and people argue in the same way.

• I have no doubt whatever that the mass of people if they saw preachers in the theatres would argue, they do not think so badly about the theatres. It is a mistake to make use of such places for the work of the Lord.

Rem. The situation is difficult.

F.E.R. It is difficult. In the peculiar position we occupy in relation to christendom, our path is difficult and nothing but divine guidance can keep us right in the path.

• It is a fatal mistake for people to think they are coming out to an easy path.

Ques. What do you think of going into the street?

F.E.R. I think the street is as good as any place if it is open to you.

• I would not care to go if it meant having an altercation with the authorities, but if the street or any place is free there is nothing morally against it.

• My reason against theatres is a moral one, but there is nothing moral against the street or any open place.

F.E.R. There are two principles with God which He undoubtedly maintains; that is, on the one hand, responsibility, and on the other hand, sovereignty; and they are both morally necessary.

• God cannot give up responsibility. If all men were born again, God would give up responsibility, but if God gave up responsibility it would bring in confusion in regard of angels,
  • so, too, in regard of those who were drowned in the flood; responsibility must be maintained, else God would appear unrighteous.

• God will maintain responsibility, but if God only maintained responsibility, there would not be one single soul saved.

• Therefore sovereignty comes in. People may try and reconcile the two, but the two great principles are an absolute necessity morally for God.

J.S.A. And the testimony of God presented to man is on the line of responsibility, whilst the work of God in man is on the line of sovereignty.

F.E.R. Therefore you get the elect coming in.

Ques. The exhortation here; is that put in as preserving against lawlessness and looseness in a day when individual faithfulness is called for, "follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart"?

F.E.R. I think that passage is misunderstood. I think it is those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart that have to look for you.

J.S.A. That is, you have to follow righteousness.

F.E.R. That is in the lead, and those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart are to follow with you, but the great point is that righteousness is to be the leader.

• If you follow anything what you follow is the leader, and that is righteousness, then faith, love, and peace.

• You have not to look out for other people, but for yourself, and see that you follow your leader.

W.M. You do not follow people, but you follow these principles.

F.E.R. Because they are in the van. If other people are coming along too so much the better.

Rem. That is the preservative against lawlessness.

F.E.R. Quite so. "Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart".

J.P. I am afraid you are going to do away with our joining the brethren.

F.E.R. I am sure I am not going to follow the brethren, but I hope I will follow righteousness.

E.W. The company is already formed.

F.E.R. I know no company except the church.

E.W. The church as a whole?

F.E.R. Yes.

J.T. You get in Malachi, they that feared the Lord spake often one to another and the Lord took account of them.

F.E.R. Yes, but then you must remember this, that those who feared the Lord and spake often one to another were the remnant of Israel, there was not much beside them.

• Now you find the majority of those in the unity of the Spirit not following the line laid down in Timothy.

• You cannot run the remnant principle too hard, else you will put out a good many who are in the unity of the Spirit.

J.S. Have you any thought of the remnant today?

F.E.R. It gives me an unpleasant feeling when I hear any talk about it; we cannot compare ourselves with the remnant of Israel, because they were the only faithful ones.

• Now in the present day there are a great many people who are not walking according to 2 Timothy, who are nevertheless in the unity of the Spirit.

J.T. You mean the analogy between the company in Malachi and our position is not very great.

F.E.R. You cannot run it too hard.

G.W.H. So you could hardly say we were a remnant company.

F.E.R. I do not like it.

J.T. What do you make of Philadelphia?

F.E.R. Whatever the Lord might see in Philadelphia was morally representative of the whole church; that is the value of it in the eye of the Lord.

• He says, "I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee".

• I do not believe the Lord loves the brethren especially, but the whole church.

J.T. Do you not think certain conditions gave rise to the Lord speaking in that way?

F.E.R. If you answer to Philadelphia, the first thing would be that you would jealously guard the whole church in your mind.

Ques. Then you do not know of any company of Christians that represents the assembly as such?

F.E.R. No.

Ques. Nor any company that represents Philadelphia as such?

F.E.R. No.

J.T. All that you have been saying involves faith on the part of saints.

F.E.R. There are many who are going on outwardly with us, and I do not want to exclude them, who have no faith for the place.

• We carry them, and they come to the meetings, knowing that a certain kind of meeting will be carried on at a particular time; they may be orderly in walk and character, and yet they have no faith for the place, and it makes a great difficulty in the present time.

• I feel this, they do not gain much and they contribute nothing.

J.S. You mean to have faith for the path like Moses?

F.E.R. It is no light thing to take a stand outside of all that has credit as christianity, to go forth outside the camp bearing His reproach is a poor thing if you have not faith for it.

• If you do it because others do it, you will get unhappy and dissatisfied.

J.S. So you think there are a great many among us who have no faith for the path?

F.E.R. I am sure there are. In our coming together in assembly there is nothing there but what we bring. You do not find anything there.

• Whatever comes into the assembly in its normal character has to be brought there.

J.T. I am afraid a great many of our brethren come expecting a ready-made service there.

J.S. So we are really living in perilous times.

F.E.R. Very difficult times, but after all the Lord is above all, and if we are simple we will get the support of the Lord.

• How we are to go on without the support of the Lord I cannot tell; and you cannot look two days ahead. You do not want to know. There is grace enough in the Lord for the moment.

J.T. I think the fourth chapter is a wonderful comfort, because you get a unit in Paul and he says, "the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me".

F.E.R. There is the testimony, "that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion".

• The confidence of the apostle is, "And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom".

• Every one forsook him, but he says, "Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me". You may depend upon it, the Lord will stand by those who stand by the testimony.

G.R. There was evidently faith there.

F.E.R. Yes.

J.T. Well, I have no difficulties about it; I believe the Lord will support His people at the present time.

F.E.R. The great thing is to stand by the testimony. Understand first what the testimony means and then stand by it.

• Do not attempt to stand by Brethrenism, but by the testimony.

C.A. And you can only do that individually.

F.E.R. But then others may be seeking to do it as well as you and you follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

W.M. You cannot speak of an individual or collective testimony. The testimony is Christ.

F.E.R. Yes.

G.W.H. After all we have a great deal to encourage us, have we not?

C.A. I suppose the apostle Paul did not feel any reason to be discouraged.

F.E.R. No.

J.P. I often think that in these meetings there is the disposition to have undue regard in a certain way to what has come in.

• One fears that it weakens in ourselves the sense of the possibilities and privileges that still remain and are open to us just as much as ever.

F.E.R. I think so. I do not think that anything that is essential has abated. We have everything here in the power of the Spirit.

• Christ is already at the right hand of God and we are brought into association with Him, and that has not altered.

• The power down here has not abated. It is still possible that there should be love in the Spirit.

Then anybody ought to be able to appreciate the great good that comes out in the exhortations and admonitions in chapter 3, where all the distinctions of flesh disappear in the new man.

• It is a very great thing to rise above the distinctions of the flesh in the power of divine love.
  • When Christ was here upon earth, what were the distinctions of flesh to Him?

  • What did He concern Himself about the distinctions of flesh?

  • What difference did distinctions of flesh make to Him?

  • What distinction between the black and the white man; He had no prejudice regarding men.

• If you look at these things in the light of Christ they can have no place at all; that is as evident as it can be.
  • "There is not Greek and Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, barbarian, Scythian, bondman, freeman; but Christ is everything, and in all".

  • Then you get all the grace of Christ referred to, "Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any should have a complaint against any: even as the Christ has forgiven you, so also do ye. And to all these add love, which is the bond of perfectness". Beautiful exhortations!

  • Put on love, "and let the peace of Christ preside in your hearts, to which also ye have been called in one body, and be thankful".

  • Then "Let the word of the Christ dwell in you richly, in all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another, in psalms, hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to God".

J.P. You are really brought up to a climax of divine joy.

F.E.R. It is exceedingly beautiful, and the most striking contrast to the giddiness and frivolity and levity which mark the world.

J.S.A. And then you come out from that to discharge the individual relations that you have in this world, in the light of these things.

C.A. And I suppose you come out in power.

F.E.R. Exactly.

G.B.M. Reference has been made to being affected by what has come in. Would you not say there is great encourage-ment by looking at the positive side of where Christ is at the present? We speak of Him being in rejection, but the positive side is resurrection.

F.E.R. But the great thing for those who are enlightened and exercised about these things is to withdraw within the limits of the Spirit down here.

• I have no doubt there are certain limits of the Spirit of God, and the thing is to withdraw within the limits of the Spirit. I have no doubt the Spirit is extremely exclusive.

• They condemn exclusiveness, but the Spirit of God is extremely exclusive, because the Spirit of God will not admit anything whatever of the flesh, and therefore the Spirit is extremely exclusive, and the things of the world and flesh must not intrude within the region of the Spirit.

• We must come away from the flesh and the world. You first have to withdraw from what is not of the Spirit, and then you live in the Spirit.

J.S.A. It is only in that you can maintain the unity of the Spirit.

F.E.R. Many people speak about our being exclusive, but really there is no one so exclusive as the Spirit of God. The Spirit of God will be exclusive.

• We must remember that, in regard to those fellow christians with whom we do not walk.

• We do not exclude fellow christians, but we seek to exclude things in which they are entangled, and principles which are contrary to the Spirit.

J.H.C. You would keep your heart open toward them personally?

F.E.R. Certainly.