• Apart from faith there can be no realisation of the Lord's presence, but in entering into the tomb, they get an impression of the dignity of our Lord's wonderful Person, that He might be held in reverence and affection in the hearts of each one of His saints.

With Mary, we have bridal affections, developed through her sorrow. I thought we might see how the Lord has put these things together, and has brought about a trustworthy vessel, a vessel of faith.

• He has brought about by His work, a vessel that will treasure Christ, not only in affection, but in the deepest reverence. We see in Mary the divinely formed state of affection that is in the assembly, so that the Lord can make her a vessel to communicate the greatest light.

S.E.E. In what way do you suggest the devoted service of Joseph and Nicodemus is continued on the part of saints today?

H.F.N. It illustrates the great idea of christian fellowship. The body of Jesus is that which is the living bond of christian fellowship in the midst of a hostile world.

• Joseph goes to Pilate and demands the body of Jesus. The body of Jesus – speaking reverently – is the property of the saints, and Nicodemus would suggest the wealth of the fellowship to which through grace we have been called, and the intelligent side of it. For he brought "a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about a hundred pounds weight".

L.P.F. Why are myrrh and aloes referred to specifically here?

H.F.N. The myrrh stands in relation to the suffering love of Christ, and the aloes suggests bitterness.

• As standing here publicly in the place of the Lord's crucifixion, we have to accept the bitterness of the position, and be true to the public fellowship, if we are to touch the heavenly side of things in christianity.

J.J.J. The world took His garments, but His body is left to the saints.

H.F.N. In the Old Testament, the great servant Moses was buried by God, but God does not bury the body of Jesus. He commits it into the hands of the saints who loved Him. That should make a very powerful appeal to every believer to definitely commit himself.

• It would be a great spiritual gain if some here were to commit themselves, and if each household of the saints was definitely committed to the Lord, and to the circle of christian fellowship and divine interests.

W.J.H. The Lord's personal body is not here that we may make sacrifices in relation to it, but the assembly which is His body is here, and that calls for the same spirit of sacrifice.

J.S.D. Why is the feature of secrecy in connection with Joseph and Nicodemus brought to light here?

H.F.N. The greatest crisis in the history of the testimony took place at the crucifixion of Christ.

• These two, so to speak, come into the light of day, and are prepared to identify themselves publicly with the Lord, in the very darkest hour in the history of the world.

• We have to admit how much secret discipleship there is. The great question is, Are we prepared to step out into the light of day, and publicly identify ourselves with the One who has been crucified?

• We can hardly touch the spiritual sphere of chapter 20, unless we are prepared to take this first step.

S.S. Do you suggest that this fidelity and devotion is the result of our appreciation of "My body … for you", Luke 22:19?

H.F.N. Yes, and it lies at the basis of everything that comes out in chapter 20. The same feature comes out in the beginning of the chapter when

• Mary says, "They have taken away the Lord out of the tomb".

• The Lord is the bond of christian fellowship.

• The next thing is that Peter and John are linked up together in what is, so to say, the realm of faith. The great matter for each one is to see that our public identification with the Lord in His rejection, is supported by our entrance into the realm of faith. We are to be ready to accept the place of reproach here, but the support for it is faith.

G.A. Is it your thought that we see in these persons a progress in the apprehension of the truth?

H.F.N. Yes, that is what we should see.

W.J.H. The Lord stayed forty days after His resurrection, in order to bring that state of faith into our hearts.

• With many of us, resurrection is just an accepted doctrine, but to know consciously by faith that the blessed Lord is out of death, and moving in relation to His people, is an important side of the present dispensation. He remained forty days to assure His people of that.

H.F.N. So that the great truth of Christ risen is to be enshrined in the heart of each saint, and this would result in understanding the Lord's living movements in the way of spiritual education amongst His people.

E.E.S.L. Do you think the wrapping of the body of Jesus in the fine linen with the spices would be the saints' answer to the action of the soldiers in taking His garments? The spices suggesting the inner feelings of the saints, as to the suffering and bitterness with which He was encompassed.

H.F.N. It would help us if as a result of our considerations, there was a movement of affection amongst the saints. The next thing would be the challenge as to whether we were prepared to move on in faith.

H.M. Do not these persons suggest the treasuries of the house in Chronicles?

H.F.N. Yes; you mean the divine substance in their souls is like a treasury.

It is a very beautiful thing to see Peter and John together here. In Luke's gospel we find these two brethren are brought together, first in relation to the passover and the preparation for it.

• The links of the brethren really begin on moral lines, that is, we are bound together in the recognition of the judgment of sin; but here, we see a further link between these two brethren: they are bound together in relation to the great realm of faith.

W.J.H. It is significant that these two are always together in that order. If we are to enjoy what is in the family of God, and heavenly and spiritual relationships, we must be marked by the spirit of subjection that Peter would maintain all through.

H.F.N. That is important. The next place where they are seen together, is going up to the temple at the hour of prayer in Acts 3. Then in the acceptance of the place of reproach and of public suffering for the sake of the name, in chapter 4; and in Acts 8, in support of the work of God in Samaria.

• They are seen in our present chapter, John 20, in relation to the realm of faith, and that paves the way for what follows.

• Resurrection is brought in here, not so much to assure the faith of the disciples, or, as in Luke, to fulfil Scripture, but so that the saints might have a definite impression of the dignity of the Person. So we have the reference to the Lord's head and feet.

• I suppose we shall never intelligently understand the assembly as it is presented here, unless we hold the Person of Christ in the deepest reverence and affection. There is a great necessity to hold Christ, not only in affection, but also in the deepest reverence, so that we get a sense of His dignity and greatness, which paves the way for the reception of divine communications.

E.E. Are we not, generally speaking, weak in what is proper to the dispensation?

H.F.N. Yes. The great effort of the enemy is to rob the saints of what is distinctive to christianity. If we lose the sense of our distinctive heavenly portion, how are we to fulfil our special place in the testimony of God?

A.H. What does the thought of running imply here? Mary runs to Peter and John, and Peter and John are found running to the sepulchre.

H.F.N. It would suggest that everything is in divine activity. It is not mere natural energy, but divine movement, and the Lord would have all His people run.

• Divine Persons themselves are typified as running. The Father ran and fell on the neck of the prodigal;

• David ran to meet Goliath; and the servant in Genesis 24, symbolic of the Holy Spirit, runs to meet Rebecca. In the Acts, Philip the evangelist ran, and in this chapter everything speaks of divine movement.

• One cherishes the thought of divine Persons running: the whole scene would be set in spiritual activity and movement.

A.H. I thought the action of Joseph of Arimathaea would lead to this. He reached a point where he could not wait any longer; his identification with the Lord must take immediate form in action. So, too, with Nicodemus, and then you get increasing movement.

H.F.N. Have you any thought as to why John outruns Peter? It has been said that Peter always comes first. He was a great servant in relation to the basic truth of the kingdom, and in this Peter must ever come first; but have we not to learn the lesson that, in the end, John would outstrip Peter?

W.J.H. Love will abide when faith ceases. I was wondering whether the running indicates the urgency of what is taking place, but it leads to sitting. What we need, having run, is to sit as the angels, heavenly beings sit, in contemplation of the One whose head is so glorious and His feet so beautiful!

H.F.N. So that the movements on the part of the saints are seen first in relation to the running, and then, as you say, in relation to sitting.

• These are great things for contemplation. Perhaps there is little power to enter into the heavenly side of things, because there is little contemplation.

• It used to be said of two great servants of God, that one lived in the sanctuary, the other in his study.

• We need to cultivate these holy, reverential thoughts in regard to the greatness of the Lord's Person, and that would pave the way for spiritual activity, as with these saints here. The Lord is the only One who stood in the midst.

W.J.H. Does the Lord's supper bring us, first, to the contemplation in the loaf of His precious body, and in the cup to Himself as Mediator of the new covenant, who would hold our hearts in relation to God? But there is something higher than that, is there not?

H.F.N. Yes, indeed.

S.E.E. Is the activity seen here an advance upon that which marked the disciples previously? In Mark's gospel the Lord upbraids them for their hardness of heart. In Luke 24 He admonishes them because of their slowness of heart. In this gospel, their love and faith are seen in rapid movements in relation to Christ.

H.F.N. Quite so.

B.O.L. Is this all in view of our being able to speak, as in the assembly, to the Father about Christ as He is, not as He was down here?

H.F.N. I am sure it would pave the way for that. The great end the Lord has in view is that we should be in liberty with divine Persons. The effect of spiritual ministry in the house of God is always to liberate the spirits of the saints, and set them in liberty in speaking to divine Persons.

• Whereas if you merely get a mental presentation of the truth, however skilfully it may be put, it tends to bring people into bondage.

W.J.H. I think the brethren would value a word from you as to addressing the Lord after the bread and cup have been partaken of; as to liberty in addressing the Lord, as well as to worshipping God.

H.F.N. As having drunk out of the cup, in the import of which there is not one element of bondage, we are privileged to address the Lord as Mediator. His glory as Mediator would tend to liberate the spirits of the brethren.

• Otherwise the meeting drops down to a formal service, and becomes lifeless. One would like to get a fresh and living impression each Lord's day, of the wonderful service the Lord renders to the assembly.

G.C.H. Ascension involves what is heavenly and spiritual.

H.F.N. That is true. Every family in the spiritual universe that is named of the Father, will be brought into relationship, but the firstborn family, the assembly, will be put on the plane of ascension.

• One would earnestly desire that we might get an impression from the Lord as to the great truth of ascension. It would produce an effect upon us that nothing else will.

W.J.H. It is striking that the glory shining in Moses' face was so great that they were afraid to speak to him. He had to put a veil on his face. He went in and talked with God, but he put on the veil when he came out and talked with the people. Do you think we can talk in that sense with the Mediator now?

H.F.N. Exactly; though, of course, His face is not veiled now, nor is ours, showing the great contrast here.

• The glory of old became a consuming fire, but when you begin to speak to the Lord, you find the glory becomes a transforming power, and as you gaze, you are changed into the same image, from glory to glory.

• The result would be that, without a shadow resting on the spirits of the brethren, and without the least sense of distance, they would pass in holy liberty into the realm of divine love.

G.H.C. Would you say a little as to the Minister of the sanctuary, as following the Mediator?

H.F.N. That is important. As the Minister of the sanctuary, the Lord has to do with the service of God in the assembly. It is important to recognise the Lord as the glorious Mediator who still serves us in love, but then He would take entire charge of the service of God in the assembly.

G.H.C. We should not overlook the Lord's place as Mediator and as Minister of the sanctuary. Very often in our praises, we pass over to the thought of the Father, before we have touched the Mediator.

G.A.v.S. Would you suggest then that it would be pleasing to the Lord and also to the Father, that we linger after partaking of the cup, in contemplation of the Lord?

H.F.N. That is right. It says of the disciples that they came together on the first day of the week to break bread. That is what is definitely before the saints.

• You may say, We have done what the Lord asks us to do in relation to the breaking of bread. We have responded to His request, then why do we not go home? It is important to learn to wait.

• In connection with Abraham going to worship God in Genesis 22, he heard a voice speaking to him from heaven a second time.

• The first voice we hear is the voice of the glorious Mediator, and the rays of His glory shine into the hearts of the saints. We learn to listen to the Mediator.

• But then there is that which Mary of Magdala represents, and we can never touch the higher realm of heavenly affection – a sphere that is wholly spiritual, where everything is marked by incorruptible affections – without it.

• Mary represents the true bridal state of the assembly. She has the most intense feeling in regard to the rejection of Christ, and a divinely formed state of bridal affections. She is therefore a vessel to whom the Lord can commit the greatest light.

W.J.H. It is remarkable that the Spirit of God records that she said to Him "in Hebrew, Rabboni". Hebrew is the tongue of one that is passing over.

G.A.v.S. Would that suggest that our language in response would have a spiritual character, indicating the reality and fulness of the impression the Lord has laid upon our souls?

H.F.N. Indeed; and we never touch this wonderful realm of light, glory and blessedness, until we have learned to say "my Lord".

• In speaking to the disciples Mary says, "They have taken away the Lord", and later she again refers to Him as "the Lord", but I suppose we never touch this holy realm of love until we say, in the power of affection, "my Lord". One would like to make the appeal, Have we ever said, "my Lord"?

S.S. And "Rabboni" is something further than Rabbi, is it not? The personal pronoun "my" coming in – my Teacher – is further than Rabbi.

H.F.N. It is. There are only three people in the New Testament who say "my Lord".

• One, the beloved apostle in Philippians 3:8; he speaks of
  • "the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord".

• The other two are in this chapter: Mary says "my Lord", in verse 13, and Thomas, in verse 28, "My Lord and my God".

• In this chapter we are really approaching the inner chambers, and the place of the mercy seat. Many of us know what it is to enter the courts, but in the chapter in Chronicles, David gave to Solomon not only the pattern of the courts and of the porch, but the pattern of the inner chambers, and of the house of the mercy seat.

• Is not that what we get in this chapter? We come into the inner chambers. Mary here was a trustworthy vessel; she did not add anything to what the Lord said to her. She doubtless conveyed not only the actual words, but the spirit of the message.

• Some of us are capable of conveying the words, but how a message can be enhanced by the spirit of the one who communicates it!

W.J.H. I believe that is so. It is a great test of spiritual ministry, and prepares the way for the Lord Himself to come in. Mary so delivered the message that the Lord could follow her and find things as He wished them. Is it not a great test, whether the Lord will follow what has been ministered?

Ques. What is the thought of "Touch me not"?

H.F.N. Here, the Lord is bringing in new and heavenly associations, and would not have Mary go back to the old link which she had with Christ in flesh and blood here. The great point in this chapter is that as standing in the midst He would bring us into a realm that is heavenly.

W.J.H. Do you not think it would help us all to face again the fact that in the garden is the tomb of Christ, so that our looking for something happy and pleasurable and delightful here on earth, is not to succeed while His tomb is here? This gospel says it was in the garden.

H.F.N. That is very searching. We see here also that there were spiritual instincts with Mary.

• In John 1, the Lord turned and saw the two disciples following. In Revelation, John turned from what is heavenly, to view the assembly in responsibility on earth.

• Here in John 20, spiritual instinct in Mary caused her to turn in view of what is heavenly

A.H. Is it not significant that in John's account of the resurrection we read "while it was still dark". It is the only gospel that records that it was dark, but what is in view is what is spiritual.

L.P.M. Would the practical effect of this be to deliver us from what is Jewish and attaches to earth? Even what is legitimate would be left behind, so that the spiritual realm would be entered upon.

H.F.N. That is right. In John's gospel the work of God comes into evidence. He brings before us certain individuals, each one of whom represents some distinctive feature of the work of God; and in this chapter they are all merged in the brethren.

• We see the work of God here in its completeness, and you have a spiritual heavenly company, both in origin and destiny. That is the light in which this chapter sets the assembly.

G.A. There is thus great variety in positive and spiritual development. All leads us to the apprehension of the assembly in its truly heavenly setting, liberating our hearts for the moment from what is legal and earthly, and everything of that character, so that we might move towards what is heavenly.

H.F.N. Yes, indeed, and that would link up with Mary's message,

• "Go to my brethren and say to them, I ascend to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God".

• I think the Lord is greatly helping us as to this. The thought of God in His greatness gives rise to the richest praises in the assembly. We think of Christ as the glorious Lord, and then we speak to the Father, as entering into the realm of love which would resound with His praises.

• I suppose the highest point that is ever reached in the assembly is when we touch the greatness of God. We cannot enter into the realm of what is inscrutable, but we can know and praise God, as understanding His greatness.

W.J.H. God's upper chambers are referred to in Psalm 104:3. They were in His mind in the construction of the universe.

H.F.N. The Lord's words, "I ascend to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God", would show that the upper place is the place of the assembly, the place to which Christ ascends.

• In this chapter, too, is the thought of the inner chambers;
  • "When therefore it was evening on that day, which was the first day of the week, and the doors shut where the disciples were, through fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst".

G.C.H. Why does the name "Father" precede "God" in that connection?

H.F.N. The Father is the great name that dominates the dispensation of grace; but God must ever be greater than any name He has taken. The name "God" here refers to His greatness, and is to impress us with who and what He is – the Supreme.

G.C.H. How would this compare with the heavenly position as indicated in Ephesians: "Blessed be the God and Father"?

H.F.N. Ephesians is the epistle which corresponds with it. Ephesians looks at the saints on the plane of ascension, and brings in the inner and upper chambers. The Lord is referred to as the One who has ascended up far above all heavens.

• One would like all to be impressed with the fact that there is something in christianity which the assembly possesses, which will never be shared with any other family in the spiritual universe.

• The enemy would like to rob us of it. He would tell us that it is beyond us, as indeed it is in a human sense, but it is presented to us in the way of attraction, and if we can only get the light of it, we shall never be satisfied until we get the enjoyment of it.

G.A.v.S. The exceeding greatness of it is intended to increase our spiritual desires so that the attraction of it may ever stimulate and stir us.

H.F.N. One would say Amen to that.

G.H.C. So that there is a difference between God known in a covenant relation, and as apprehended according to His personal greatness?

H.F.N. The thought of covenant does not come into John 20.

G.H.C. Would you help us as to the way we address God as "God and Father"?

H.F.N. In answer to the question, When do we address the Lord, and when do we address God? a brother once gave an instructive answer.

• He said, Have you ever watched children? They know perfectly well what to ask of their father, what of their mother.

• If we act according to the true instincts of spiritual affections, it will become a very simple matter as to what we speak to God about, and to the Father, and to the Lord.

• One dreads mere theology in these matters. One might have the truth in all its exactness and not depart one hair's breadth from it, but yet lack that spring of spiritual power and life that should mark the assembly.

W.J.H. That finds an echo very definitely in our hearts. We read in Ephesians 4 of the Lord ascending up above all the heavens, and John 20 would show that He would take us up as far as we can go on the way to the upper chambers.

A.H. It says in 1 Kings 6:8 that there were winding stairs leading to the upper chambers. Does that involve our part in exercise as to it?

H.F.N. Yes. In looking at Ezekiel, I was impressed by the fact that to the inner courts there were eight steps, but to the lower courts there were seven. In John 20, the saints are to take the eight steps, and they lead into the upper chambers.

• We see here that the Lord came into the midst, and showed them His hands and His side. There is much in John in relation to His hands, and what those hands hold.
  • "The Father loves the Son, and has given all things to be in his hand", John 3:35.

• Then there is the suggestion that, like Adam, out of His side there came His counterpart – the assembly. So, as we have often remarked, the assembly has no past history.

W.J.H. Should we be here in heavenly character consequent upon this, hence we need His Spirit – His breath?

H.F.N. I am sure that is it. The Lord is seen here as the last Adam, and He infuses the breath of life into God's creation as seen in persons. So that the whole is spiritual and can respond. The Lord's breathing here is a most intimate action.

• It is not the Lord coming in in an official way, but coming into view in relation to what is personal. There is here a double transaction: the Lord breathing, and our receiving. The result is we are constituted heavenly in our spirits.

W.J.H. Even as when God breathed into man, it elevated man immeasurably above the beasts; so when Christ breathes, His breath elevates the saints of the assembly above every other family.

S.S. The climax is in eternity when everything that hath breath shall praise Jah.

S.E.E. Why does the Lord repeat the word, "Peace be to you"?

H.F.N. The first is in regard to what is internal; that is, peace, not merely in the absence of confusion or conflict, but a positive atmosphere in the assembly.

• The second peace is what you carry with you into the sphere of representation.

• Is not the great thought in this company that they might go into the inner chambers, the house of the mercy seat? So we carry what is spiritual and heavenly with us, and the Lord says,
  • "whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted to them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained".

• This heavenly spirit characterises this administration, a marvellous administration. How it would express the grace of heaven as seen in our public attitude towards believers generally in christendom today! We have such a sense of what the inner house of the mercy seat is that we would breathe that spirit in remission of sins.

Peter deals first with the elder brethren, and then addresses a word to the younger ones. He says,

• "Likewise ye younger, be subject to the elder, and all of you bind on humility towards one another". He says to all, "bind on humility".

In Acts 2 we are told, in relation to the coming in of the Spirit, that

• "your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your elders shall dream with dreams; yea, even upon my bondmen and upon my bondwomen in those days will I pour out of my Spirit, and they shall prophesy".

• So that in every meeting where there is spiritual prosperity, sons and daughters are prophesying, and the elder and the younger are together in a mutually delightful state of things.

• The Psalm we read is one of those which refer to an instrument of ten strings. In it we read that the sons are to be as plants grown up in their youth, and the daughters are to be like corner-columns. We get there a beautiful picture of features of true spiritual prosperity, which should mark every local meeting.

Then the thought in the last scripture is in regard to the younger men. We know what so often marks young men naturally – that they know more than their parents; a feature which has perhaps been common to many of us.

• But we see in this scripture how the youthful element amongst the saints, the generation that is growing up, ask the man of God to go with them, and they will get all the gain of his experience.

• We see, too, how their energies are wisely directed, so that the axe-head having been lost, is recovered at the direction of the man of God.

W.J.H. Does that line run through the ways of God all down the history of the testimony? There were Moses and Joshua; Elijah and Elisha; Samuel and David; David and Solomon; then Paul and Timothy. There is the thought of the ass and the colt too.

H.F.N. Yes; what you say is very confirming. Is it not the great business of the elder brethren to see that they make room for the development of the younger, and give scope for their spiritual energies?

G.A. Peter says in chapter 5 of his first epistle, "By Silvanus, the faithful brother". Silvanus was a younger brother and Peter an elder, but he was serviceable to Peter.

H.F.N. Yes; he speaks of him in an affectionate way, as one valued.

J.H. Every local gathering should be marked by experience, and by freshness and energy; it is a serious thing if any part is lacking.

H.F.N. I am sure it is. If there is a generation missing from a meeting, there is great spiritual lack in it.

• You would not like to see a meeting composed only of old men, nor a meeting composed only of young men, who might lack experience. You seldom see a meeting really prosperous, spiritually, unless there is room made for both elements.

W.J.H. I am sure that is right, and that elder brethren should keep that definitely in mind. I suppose the one place, beyond any other, where the younger men would develop as priests, would be the prayer meeting.

S.S. Moses sent the youths, in Exodus 24.

H.F.N. Yes, that is another instance.

E.D.L. Would John's ministry be in line with what you were saying?

• "I have written to you, young men, because ye are strong", 1 John 2: 14.

H.F.N. It would. In this first scripture we read, Peter brings in the thought of shepherding. There is an abundance of ministry today, but many of the local meetings feel the lack of shepherding.

• We should be spared much of the sad experience arising from those who have wandered into the world and have lost heart, if there had been more of this spirit of shepherding.

• It is a service open to a young man too, though it is presented generally as a feature of an elder. Peter says, addressing the elders,
  • "Exercising oversight, not by necessity, but willingly; not for base gain, but readily; not as lording it over your possessions, but being models for the flock".

• The elder brethren are thus to be models for the flock.

W.J.H. I am sure there is great need for more shepherd care of one another.

• "The flock … which is among you".

Ques. Would you say the service of shepherding does not necessarily need gift?

H.F.N. No; though shepherd and teacher is one gift, according to Ephesians 4. We have to remember that gift is subject to desire, and if we really have the desire to shepherd the flock of God, the Lord would give us the ability to do it.

J.H. What place would the "witness of the sufferings of the Christ" and "partaker of the glory" have?

H.F.N. To be a "witness of the sufferings" of the Christ would bring mellowness of spirit. They produce holy sensibilities in the saints, which would fit them to take up this shepherd service.

• Then being "partaker of the glory" would show what is in view, so that the service of shepherding would be taken up in the light of the coming glory!

• It has often been pointed out that many great and distinguished servants in the Old Testament were shepherds.

S.E.E. In those sufferings you would learn the shepherd heart of Christ.

H.F.N. That is it.

J.L. Is this the filling out of the commission the Lord gave Peter in John 21,

• "Feed my sheep"?

H.F.N. It is indeed. "Feed my lambs", and "shepherd my sheep".

• We know that it is a much more difficult thing to shepherd sheep, than to feed lambs. In dealing with young saints, there is a certain responsiveness, but the older ones are sometimes restive, and it needs peculiar skill in the shepherd to shepherd the sheep.

W.J.H. The danger with the older sheep is that they want their own way; that is where we need shepherding.

G.A. Sheep not only need feeding, but a great deal of care. They have their ailments; they receive injuries; there is the call for a constant watchfulness.

W.J.H. Do you think we are tested by the sheep that are amongst us? We think very kindly of the dear brethren in the Arctic circle, for instance, but they do not test us very much. The sheep that are amongst us are the test of our ability to care for one another.

J.H. A sense that they are the sheep of the flock of God would help us.

H.F.N. Peter, having addressed himself to the elder brethren, turns to the younger, and says,

• "be subject to the elder".

• If we are to qualify in relation to the house of God as vessels in His service, the first great lesson is that of being subject to the elders.

J.L. Do we get these things in David? He learned to keep the sheep, and then was available, under Jesse, to go to his brethren.

H.F.N. Quite so. He is a beautiful illustration of it. In addition to the word to the younger brethren, "be subject to the elder", the apostle says,

• "and all of you bind on humility towards one another".

• This is one of the garments in the christian's wardrobe, and it fits us as well in December as in August; and whether we are in Australia, South Africa, or Europe. It is a garment that fits every country and every clime, and it never grows old. It is of great importance that every one of us binds on humility.

G.A. One is concerned to learn how we may, with constancy, bind on humility. We may learn the manner of doing it at the feet of the Lord, I suppose, thinking of how He emptied Himself. Is that the line, as learning of Him?

H.F.N. Quite so. In the service of feet-washing, the Lord laid aside His garments and girded Himself with a linen towel – He bound it on, in that way would not that be a great object lesson for us?

W.J.H. Do you think to "bind on" indicates it is there permanently. It is not a thing you put off and on occasionally, but it is always there. In a care meeting, in a difficulty, in ministry, or in taking part in the assembly, or maybe in care for one another, that spirit is there.

B.M. Does the thought of binding on suppose control?

H.F.N. Yes; it is a delightful thing to come into touch with those who have bound on humility. I remember a brother once saying that he gave an address on the subject of humility, and when he had finished he said he had to get to the Lord, because he was very proud of it!

S.S. Peter says that He "to the humble gives grace".

H.F.N. That is very fine. "Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in the due time", verse 6.

• The Lord gives grace to the one who has bound on humility, and then exalts him in due time. You find that those who exercise true spiritual influence are marked by humility, and the Lord has given them this excess of grace. As bowing under the mighty hand of God, He exalts us in due time.

G.H.C. Is it that you see it in Christ, and then are exercised about it? It is only by the Spirit it can be done.

H.F.N. I am sure that is so.

W.J.H. Humility would enable us to wait for the due time. God has a time in His own mind for all His people. David stands out as one who waited humbly for the due time.

• The trouble is that the flesh cannot wait. Young men have to wait on the Lord in humility, before they are brought forward in the Lord's time, whether locally or generally. Wanting to push oneself forward will never give one what the Lord has in mind for one.

H.F.N. I am sure that is true. As one waits humbly and patiently, the Lord's time comes. As we really bind on humility, the Lord gives grace, and then exaltation comes in time as we are morally equal to it. It is a question of time.

E.P.H. Do we see that coming out in Timothy, as having bound on humility – having the entrusted word given to him to pass on to faithful men?

H.F.N. That is it, and I suppose it paves the way for our second scripture – Acts 2. You get four things there; the first is,

• "your sons and your daughters shall prophesy".

• What we would look for in relation to the younger generation, referring to them spiritually as sons and daughters, is that they might prophesy; that they might be vessels to communicate the mind of God. The next thing is that
  • "your young men shall see visions, and your elders shall dream with dreams; yea, even upon my bondmen and upon my bondwomen in those days will I pour out of my Spirit, and they shall prophesy".

• So that, if there are to be true spiritual features of prosperity, these things must be present.

W.J.H. Would you distinguish between "visions" and "dreams"?

H.F.N. It says in the book of Proverbs that without a vision the people perish; that is, they become unbridled and exposed.

W.J.H. The dreams in Genesis seem to look on to what is future; whereas a vision refers to what should be present, as with Elisha's young man in 2 Kings 6: 17. The young men would be more especially concerned with what is now, whereas the old men would think of what is coming.

H.F.N. Quite so. The old men would be seeking to educate the younger brethren as to the coming glory. Do you not think that the test of brethren in their service in the local meeting, is not exactly what they say, but the spiritual value of what they have left behind?

W.J.H. I am sure it is. I have been greatly impressed as to what has been said of David and Solomon; that David definitely provided for Solomon to be on his throne before he vacated it.

G.A. Peter fell into a trance and had a vision in Acts 10; that was in the early days of Peter's ministry.

H.F.N. I think that is very suggestive. It is a great thing to sit down in your local meeting, and have a look at the kind of material the Lord has put there.

• If we look at it with the Lord's eyes, we shall discover the wisdom and skilfulness of divine love in the way the Lord has put us together.

• Then, how exercises would spring up in a living way in the hearts of the younger brethren, and in those who are older. So that one would see the possibility, and the other would see the thing operating in a living way at the present moment.

T.F. Both a dream and a vision relate to the speaking of God.

H.F.N. I am sure that is so. We do not see much of sons and daughters prophesying. One would love to see that feature more in evidence. In Philip's house, the four daughters prophesied. What a delightful house that would be to go into!

• There was the evangelist Philip, then there was Paul, the great vessel of the testimony in that day, and then there were the four daughters who prophesied. What an atmosphere there must have been in that household in Acts 21, as Agabus came in and prophesied.

W.J.H. It does not say they were prophetesses, but they prophesied. They had the mind of God at that moment. Is that not greatly to be desired for sisters and brothers, that they should be intelligent and able to communicate God's mind at the present time?

H.F.N. One has felt, in that connection, the wisdom of what has been said, that sisters do not think enough of themselves.

• We may think too much about ourselves in one direction, but when it comes to our part in the service of God, we may not think sufficiently of ourselves.

• If every sister were really a vessel ready to communicate the mind of God, as the occasion offered, how the local assemblies would be enriched.

J.H. These things should exist as the fruit of the pouring out of the Spirit?

H.F.N. Quite so. I am sure that if we were more in the living gain of the pouring out of the Spirit, they would exist. This pouring out of the Spirit is upon God's bondmen and bondwomen.

• We sometimes wonder if there has been sufficient recognition of our place as bondmen and bondwomen; because in Deuteronomy, not only was the man's ear bored, but the woman's ear too. We have to challenge ourselves as to whether we have been to the door, and had our ear bored.

W.J.H. You mean by that, have we been permanently and irrevocably committed to the Lord and His interests? Is that the bondman's and the bondwoman's position?

H.F.N. That is it exactly.

W.J.H. Do you not think we are in danger of looking upon ourselves as hired servants, to come and go as we please?

H.F.N. And sometimes we do almost as we did in our school days, take up things as hobbies. There is none of that spirit in christianity; we are to be irrevocably committed to the Lord.

Ques. Would that be equal to a vow in the Old Testament?

H.F.N. It is the same idea exactly.

G.A. Is it the evidence of ownership that you are concerned about – that these things should be seen in the saints? The boring of the ear was an evidence of subjection and ownership was it not?

S.E.E. Although it is impossible to go back to Pentecostal days, we can still have Pentecostal features in that way?

H.F.N. That is so. We have often been reminded that in Pentecost there was no time limit. The Lord has not put any limit on Pentecost.

To pass on to Psalm 144, we read in verse 9:

• "I will sing a new song unto thee; with the ten-stringed lute will I sing psalms unto thee".

• We get references to a ten-stringed lute in Psalm 33, Psalm 92, and Psalm 144. I do not think there are any more.

• Psalm 92: 13-14 refer to the elder brethren:
  • "Those that are planted in the house of Jehovah shall flourish in the courts of our God. They are still vigorous in old age, they are full of sap and green".

• Psalm 144 has reference to the younger ones; in verse 12 it says,
  • "That our sons may be as plants grown up in their youth; our daughters as corner-columns, sculptured after the fashion of a palace".

• One has sometimes thought that this is a beautiful description of what might be called a truly spiritual and prosperous local meeting.

• The first feature is that the sons would be as plants grown up in their youth, indicating that the growth in the house of God is normal. When you think of the daughters – that is, the younger sisters – the illustration is used of a corner-column,
  • "sculptured after the fashion of a palace".

• You look first for the development of spiritual growth, and then for this ornamentation in the house of God. Peter refers to the ornament of the sisters, that is,
  • "a meek and quiet spirit", 1 Peter 3: 4.

W.J.H. It is a great thing in youth to grow up. Zechariah 6: 12 speaks of one who would "grow up from his own place". Have you ever seen one who wandered from place to place, grow up?

H.F.N. No, such a one does not take root properly; we are to be rooted in love among the saints.

• Then there are these sculptured columns which would add beauty. So with the younger sisters – how they would adorn the house of God! God loves the idea of spiritual beauty in His house.

• I suppose Timothy would be one of the best illustrations of one planted in the house of God and growing up in His courts. He had all the vigour of youth, combined with the depth of a father.

• I think what we should look for in our local companies, is the growing up as plants, and then the ornamentation and beauty in the young women.

G.H.C. Psalm 92, which you refer to, speaks of trees; there we have what stands, so that everything is perfect in that way.

H.F.N. It is indeed; and what follows in Psalm 144 is so beautiful; it says,

• "Our granaries full, affording all manner of store".

• There is a variety of food, something like the tree of life affording all manner of fruits.

G.A. The early and the latter rain would secure the supply, so the granaries are full under the blessing of the Lord; there is no lack of anything.

J.H. Would you say something of the ten-stringed instruments?

H.F.N. Some of us seem to have only one string. You can certainly get music out of one string, but the brother who has only one will not make much of a musician in the house of God.

• One has often thought of Romans 5. One of the first strings is tribulation, which worketh patience; that is a string in the instrument. Then if you go on in the knowledge of God, you get a completed instrument, one that has ten strings.

W.J.H. Do you think that there should be a note rising from whatever sphere of responsibility we touch – not only from one? We may have our special note in the assembly, but all ten combine.

H.F.N. In Psalm 33, everyone has an instrument of ten strings; and if the young people will look into these three psalms, they will be helped to become true musicians in the house of God.

S.E.E. Sometimes the young think that what they have is too meagre to contribute, but if it is spiritual it is an acquisition.

H.F.N. That is right. It has been said of some, that because they cannot sing like a nightingale, they will not chirp like a sparrow. We do not expect them to begin with the song of a nightingale, but the One who made the nightingale made the sparrow as well.

G.H.C. Where does the question of tithes come in? The storehouse is dependent upon tithes, and this calls for exercise on the part of all, that there might be power to consider for God, and bring the tithes into the storehouse.

H.F.N. That is very helpful. Following on that, the next feature is

• "our sheep bringing forth thousands, ten thousands in our pastures",

• that is, you never would have a meeting where they had lost a generation. The local meeting should never die out. Then following on that it says,
  • "Our kine laden with young;"

• that would follow spiritual increase and abundance of store. You find a local meeting prospers as each one is doing his or her part in the service, "laden with young".

W.J.H. That is important; you help people greatly if you encourage them to do something.

H.F.N. That is right. In God's world there is no unemployment; each one has to find out his or her bit of service, and labour at it heartily.

G.H.C. So the service would be distributed; no brother would think of holding two or three offices regularly.

H.F.N. No; he would not hold any as a life office. There should be room made for the young men to develop on the line of service. Three things follow that are very beautiful.

• There will be no breaking in – no lawlessness will be working in the local meeting. In a spiritual setting like this, there is no breaking in.

• And then it says, there is no going forth: that is, the whole life interest is in the local company. "No outcry in our streets" – what a delightful suggestion!
  • "I exhort … be of the same mind in the Lord", Philippians 4: 2,

• the apostle says. Perhaps two sisters are complaining against each other; you could not have a delightful state of things such as the psalm describes, if there is a complaining spirit. So the psalm ends with this,
  • "Blessed the people that is in such a case! Blessed the people whose God is Jehovah!"

• That is a wonderful climax. I do not think anybody would want to be absent. The same number of people who sat down to the breaking of bread – I am not speaking of mothers with children and those who have legitimate responsibilities – would be at the prayer and reading meetings.

E.L. If the spirit of the shepherd you spoke of was found in exercise amongst us, these conditions would be reached.

W.J.H. Had you in mind in 2 Kings 6, that the sons of the prophets there, representing the young, get all the benefit of having an aged servant like Elisha among them?

H.F.N. Yes. Do you not think that is a great feature in the local gathering to go forth under the direction of the man of God?

• In many of our activities, there is no spiritual gain or real fruit for God, because we do not come under spiritual leadership. That is the great lesson of the last scripture.

The second thought is the authority of the apostles. We read in Ephesians 4,

• "He that descended is the same who has also ascended up above all the heavens, that he might fill all things; and he has given some apostles".

• Apostles come first, representing the authority of Christ. Paul, speaking of that authority, said it was given to him for building up, and not for overthrowing, 2 Corinthians 13: 10.

Then, in relation to the assembly, authority is seen in four ways.

1. First, as set forth in Proverbs 4, we have parental authority; for in the assembly the basis is the recognition of authority as bound up with what is parental. Authority is in the house of God, but the holy blend of love is seen connected with it.

2. In Joshua 1, we see in Moses ministerial authority. He was the great minister raised up of God, and God put authority into his hands.

3. Then in relation to Eleazar, we have in Numbers 4: 16 priestly control in authority. The seven things of which he was to have charge would indicate his control of all the services that stood in relation to the house of God.

4. And, finally, upon Joshua God conferred authority connected typically with the spiritual realm.

• So we have in the assembly these four kinds of authority; first, what is parental; secondly, what is ministerial; thirdly, what is priestly; and fourthly, what is spiritual – though in the spiritual realm what is authoritative does not come so much into evidence.

In the last scripture we have a very wide thought. When the Lord was going away He gave authority into the hands of His servants:

• "having … given to his bondmen the authority".

• Then in Matthew 21 the Lord is challenged as to His authority, and He met the challenge by referring to a fixed principle; that is, whether the ministry was of heaven or of men. Its origin determines the authority.

Our subject is rather wide, but one hopes the Lord will help us to see the importance of it, and that the Spirit of God will bring it home to us in power, for the welfare and prosperity of the saints is dependent on the recognition of authority.

E.E.S.L. Does God present it in such a way as to make it attractive to us?

H.F.N. Yes; it is said in another connection, that we are brought into the kingdom of the Son of His love, that is under divine authority exercised in love.

W.J.H. As in the closing days of the gentile monarchies, as seen in Daniel's image, where the feet were partly of iron and part of clay, are we not in great danger of these elements being found among us?

• On the one side, the assumption of arbitrary power, and on the other, the will of everyone being active in setting aside authority?

H.F.N. That is true, and these peculiar difficulties will, if we are not on our guard, intrude themselves into the assembly.

S.E.E. Christ's exaltation is brought out in Peter's first preaching in Acts 2, showing how prominent it was in God's mind. Peter says,

• "God has made him, this Jesus whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ", Acts 2: 36.

H.F.N. This is supported, too, by 1 Peter 3: 22,

• "who is at the right hand of God, gone into heaven, angels and authorities and powers being subjected to him;"

• and you can almost catch the joy that filled Peter's heart as he wrote this.

S.E.E. It is necessary for us to come under the direct rule of Christ, so that room is made for carrying out God's thoughts as to us.

H.F.N. In Romans 14: 9 it says, "For to this end Christ has died and lived again, that he might rule over both dead and living".

• What a powerful appeal this is to our affections, so that each one of us should come under His gracious, subduing power.

• This comes out in connection with the weak brother, and in relation to the kingdom, and I thought this was the start, the real spring of everything that follows.

G.A. There is only one alternative that is left to us, that is, lawlessness. There is a great end to be reached by means of this authority, in the different ways you have called our attention to it.

H.F.N. Would it not be to anticipate what we get in 1 Corinthians 15, that when all authority shall come to an end, Christ will hand over the kingdom, that God may be all and in all.

• Is not that the great end in view in relation to authority –
  • "that God may be all in all"?

• In eternity the idea of authority will not be prominent. While there is still something to subdue, the Lord will exercise authority to the end that God may be all in all.

W.J.H. Do you not think that the meagre way in which we enjoy what is eternal, is due to our not accepting the Lord's authority primarily? Is it not the authority that leads us into what is eternal?

H.F.N. 1 Corinthians 15 clearly shows that when the Lord hands over the kingdom it is to this end, that God may be all in all. Should we not really begin today to touch the day of God's eternal supremacy?

S.E.E. You have referred to the three thoughts of ruling, dwelling, and blessing. Does that connect with what you have in mind in the thought of God removing everything, firstly in grace, and finally in judgment, so that He can occupy the ground and give effect to His great thoughts of blessing?

H.F.N. That is right. The whole security in relation to the saints hangs upon this recognition of authority.

• If we might touch this thought first, in relation to the Lord Himself, it would give us an impression of His absolute supremacy. He is Lord both of dead and living.
  • "For both if we should live, it is to the Lord we live; and if we should die, it is to the Lord we die: both if we should live then, and if we should die, we are the Lord's".

• If we are weak in regard to that, there will be little apprehension of what God is. One would like the youngest saint to get an impression of the absolute supremacy of Christ. You could not get a wider realm than that over which Christ has authority.

W.J.H. That we are the Lord's would cover every hour, and every sphere of activity in our lives.

R.S. Would Mary Magdalene be a beautiful illustration of one coming under the authority of the Lord?

H.F.N. Yes, she would indeed.

J.S.D. Why does the Lord go into death to reach this place of authority? He is so great in Himself, yet goes through death in order to reach this place.

H.F.N. It was for the overthrow of everything that challenged His authority, and to establish His own right beyond question.

• Love lay behind it, for He gave up His life to establish His rights. Christ has died that He might be Lord both of the dead and the living.

• Divine authority now is exercised in love, and what a beneficent authority it is! When people speak of authority, they usually speak of what is harsh.

L.P.M. In Romans, it is in connection with the weak brother that you get the thought of authority introduced.

H.F.N. And it adds later, "Destroy not him with thy meat for whom Christ has died", Romans 14: 15.

• What love lies behind this! So it is a most beneficent authority.

• I take it we are all prepared to admit the Lord's authority, who has gone into heaven, angels and authorities and powers all being made subject to Him! There is nothing to dispute His authority in the heavens.

• He has ascended up, and has received gifts for men; the first gift was apostles, for the apostles represent His authority. Paul said that his apostleship was given him for edification, and not for destruction.

• It is important in relation to the assembly, to see that when the Lord left His own here, He left the authority. As walking in the truth and in separation from iniquity, the authority operates.

W.J.H. The apostles' doctrine is authoritative, and anything outside that is lawlessness.

H.F.N. That helps: the apostles' doctrine is the great expression of this authority. You could not have true spiritual activity in the house of God apart from the recognition of authority.

L.P.M. We might profess to acknowledge the authority of the Lord, and yet refuse to recognise those through whom it is expressed?

H.F.N. In the opening of the Acts, we see how believers laid their gifts at the apostles' feet. That is, they recognised those in whom the Lord had placed the authority. We may say, today there are no apostles, but when the Lord left this scene,

• He gave "to his bondmen the authority", Mark 13: 34.

W.J.H. Does the authority pass down to such a broken day as this?

H.F.N. Yes; the apostles' authority remains and is binding; but there is also what the Lord speaks of as "the authority" at the present moment.

• If we have not the apostles, we have bondmen. The passage in Mark says,
  • "it is as a man gone out of the country, having left his house and given to his bondmen the authority".

• The authority given to His bondmen remains today. When we come to the actual working out of it in the assembly, it would shine out first in a parental way. As it says in Proverbs 4: 1-4,
  • "Hear, ye children, the instruction of a father, and attend to know intelligence; for I give you good doctrine: forsake ye not my law. For I was a son unto my father, tender and an only one in the sight of my mother. And he taught me, and said unto me, Let thy heart retain my words; keep my commandments and live".

• So that prosperity in the house of God begins with the recognition of parental authority. I think you will find that in Proverbs 3 it is the mother speaking, and in chapter 4 it is the father.

• The book emphasises the spiritual gain bound up with parental authority; and that authority is seen in the house of God at the present moment. The apostle said to the Corinthians,
  • "If ye should have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet not many fathers", 1 Corinthians 4: 15.

• So the thought of parental authority was to underlie all that follows.

W.J.H. Jerusalem above is said to be our mother, and her law is authoritative. The Lord would help us to realise that, as to assembly principles, there is authority there and it is not open to us to dispute it.

H.F.N. If we are to prosper spiritually we must bow to the feature of authority in the house of God.

W.J.H. When you speak of a father, what have you in mind? Do you mean the mother represents the assembly in principle?

H.F.N. The father would represent the element of authority among the saints; his speaking would be authoritative. We learn from Galatians that Sarah is our mother, and Abraham our father. Abraham was marked by light and faith, and his words carried authority.

E.E.S.L. Would you tell us why Proverbs 3 is maternal?

H.F.N. The chapter itself conveys the thought. The mother explains the father's discipline, saying,

• "My son, despise not the instruction of Jehovah, neither be weary of his chastisement; for whom Jehovah loveth he chasteneth, even as a father the son in whom he delighteth", verses 11-12.

• The chapter seems to suggest the appeal of the mother, and in the next, there is the voice of the father.

E.E.S.L. That is very touching. The mother interpreting the voice of the father.

A.C. There is what is paternal and what is maternal in the assembly. The mother sets out the affections, and the father the authority. Paul had both these features; to the Thessalonians he was as a mother and a father; and in Corinthians he speaks as a father.

H.F.N. There is great importance in recognising parental authority among the saints. It has been truly said that authority has been placed in those who love us most.

• You feel how tender we should be in the exercise of parental authority. Solomon could say,
  • "I was a son unto my father, tender and an only one in the sight of my mother".

• He brings the two together.

That would pave the way for what we spoke of as ministerial authority in the house of God. It is illustrated in Moses. It says in Joshua 1: 16

• "And they answered Joshua, saying, All that thou hast commanded us will we do, and whither thou shalt send us will we go. According as we hearkened to Moses in all things, so will we hearken to thee".

• Authority is here seen in Moses, the great minister that God raised up for His people, and if we recognise parental authority, the next thing is to recognise ministerial authority that the Lord has given.

L.P.M. Would you explain more fully what you mean by ministerial authority?

H.F.N. The apostle spoke of himself as an able minister of the new covenant. The word ministerial has been given a false meaning, but used rightly it relates to those whom the Lord takes up for ministry in the house of God.

• He clothes with evident authority, those with moral and spiritual qualifications for ministry in the house of God today.

W.J.H. Referring to Moses and Paul, no one could challenge their love to the people; behind their ministerial authority was the parental love of which you speak.

H.F.N. Yes, we have abundant evidence of that. Paul says,

• "I shall most gladly spend and be utterly spent for your souls, if even in abundantly loving you I should be less loved", 2 Corinthians 12: 15.

• No one could question the love these two ministers had for the people of God.

W.J.H. It is a great matter for those desiring to be used in like service, that they should understand that they cannot serve ministerially, except as they love the brethren.

• The brethren would not be ready to hear them unless there was a background and proof of such love.

H.F.N. Elisha is introduced to us as pouring water on the hands of Elijah; and Joshua, as Moses' attendant.

W.J.H. It is a great matter for any young brother on whom the Lord may have His eye for service, to conduct himself in a way that makes it clear that he loves the saints; serving them constantly and patiently, so that when the time comes for him to minister, he will be listened to.

H.F.N. Exactly. Paul says, "Take Mark, and bring him with thyself, for he is serviceable to me for ministry", 2 Timothy 4: 11.

• Mark himself was now serviceable as coming under authority. Unless the younger brethren have secured not only the affection, but the respect of the local brethren, they can hardly expect room to be made for them in relation to ministry in the house of God.

• One feels the great importance of recognising that ministry is clothed with authority.

J.S.D. That comes out in Peter's word, "If any one speak – as oracles of God", 1 Peter 4: 11.

G.A. Timothy, we are told, was well reported of by the brethren. The spiritual background could be seen in Timothy.

H.F.N. That is perhaps the most outstanding witness of what we were saying.

• He had qualified in humble service, and the Lord took him up and gave him, perhaps, one of the most distinguished places in the ministry, next to the apostle.

• We do not want to lose the gain of any gift the Lord has been pleased to place among the saints, but we must begin by being well spoken of by the brethren.

J.S.D. Does this in any way bring in the sisters? God took up Moses, Aaron, and Miriam.

H.F.N. Speaking strictly of the ministers, it would be limited to those whom the Lord makes use of in the house of God.

• You might bring the sisters in as influencing, on the maternal side of the service. Deborah arose a mother in Israel. A true mother in Israel would be a powerful influence in the house of God.

G.A. Is this seen in the way sisters would support an assembly judgment in its entirety; accepting it, and in conversation supporting and strengthening it; never weakening it?

H.F.N. That is a most important point. The enemy is ever seeking to undermine authority in the house of God, and especially among those who have been so richly blessed in regard of the truth.

• As the sisters support the authority of the Lord in relation to the house of God, they become an element of power in the testimony.

E.E.S.L. Would not spiritual sisters seek to support the deliberations in the care meeting intelligently, as well as what is done in assembly?

H.F.N. I am sure they would. As to priestly authority, it is said in Numbers 4: 16,

• "Eleazar the son of Aaron the priest shall have the oversight of the oil for the light, and the fragrant incense, and the continual oblation".

• Light first, then the fragrant incense, then the continual oblation, and then the anointing oil, and added to that, the oversight of the whole tabernacle. Then all that is in the sanctuary, and its furniture. Those are the things over which Eleazar was to have control, indicating the sphere of authority in relation to the priestly service in the house of God.

• Eleazar is in one way a type of the Lord; and he is also a type of that spiritual element found in the priestly company.

W.J.H. So that such as have authority watch every service in the house of God, including the articles of service, and the persons. What has come out recently as to the Lord's Person and sonship is supported by this very thing – priestly authority.

H.F.N. Apart from that priestly authority, the saints might have been rent asunder. The psalmist says,

• "Moses and Aaron among his priests", Psalm 99: 6.

• Moses was a greater priest than Aaron; he was a greater minister, and had a greater access to God.

• What is said in regard to the "furniture" suggests that the Lord would exercise the saints in relation to details in the house of God. The order of the Lord's supper as to the cup and other things, has been carried by priestly authority in the house of God.

S.E.E. Did Peter resent that at first, when he said, "Thou shalt never wash my feet", John 13: 8? The Lord insisted, and to that priestly authority Peter submitted.

H.F.N. Exactly. Now the last subject for consideration is spiritual authority suggested in Joshua. In Numbers 27: 18-20, in answer to Moses' request that the assembly be not as sheep without a shepherd, Jehovah said,

• "Take Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the Spirit, and thou shalt lay thy hand upon him; and thou shalt set him before Eleazar the priest, and before the whole assembly; and give him commandment before their eyes. And thou shalt put of thine honour upon him, that the whole assembly of the children of Israel may obey him".

• There is this spiritual authority of which Joshua is a type; he was the spiritual leader so that they might take up their inheritance.

• The idea of authority is not so much in evidence in the spiritual realm as in the wilderness, yet we read in Ephesians of what is growing to a holy temple "in the Lord", suggesting that even in the spiritual realm we come under His authority and leadership.

A.H. God does not give anyone the authority to appoint a successor in this matter.

H.F.N. That is right. We have a relentless foe who would seek to undermine and overthrow this element of divine authority. Those who have turned aside from the truth, in the refusal of the authority, have lost everything that is vital.

• There is a great deal more underlying what we have been speaking about than appears on the surface.

B.O.L. There is a great need for us to recognise and bear in mind that the Son Himself will be subject, that God may be all in all. We should anticipate that now.

H.F.N. Mark 13: 34 says, He gave "to his bondmen the authority", and that authority remains as much today as it did on the day of Pentecost.

W.J.H. In 1 Chronicles 24: 5 a remarkable expression occurs, "princes of the sanctuary", not only ministers, but princes, in whom authority in the sanctuary is expressed.

H.F.N. Very good.

G.H.C. What is the difference between priestly and spiritual authority? I take it that what is priestly would also be spiritual, would it not?

H.F.N. I suppose priesthood is connected with the moral system in which God is served, on the ground of sacrifice.

• What is spiritual has more relation to what is eternal, and to the inheritance of the saints. In Ephesians we have what is spiritual.

• What is priestly would underlie what is spiritual as to moral state, but priesthood is related to what is rightly official in the service of God. The spiritual is beyond what is official.

E.E.S.L. We should greatly value authority in every sphere in which God has set it.

In the epistle to the Colossians the Spirit of God brings out this thought of completeness; first, in relation to the word of God, we are told that the truth of the mystery was the completion of the whole circle of divine revelation, chapter 1: 25.

• Then, after the Lord Jesus is presented as the glorious Head of His assembly, it is said of the saints,
  • "ye are complete in him, who is the head of all principality and authority", chapter 2: :10.

• What a thought that is! We have not to travel outside the Lord Jesus for anything that the assembly needs. All that ever was needed since the day of Pentecost, no matter what the difficulty, has been found in "him, who is the head of all principality and authority".

• Then in chapter 4: 12, we read of Epaphras, whose priestly intercession, labouring day and night in prayers for the saints at Colosse, was to the end that they might stand
  • "perfect and complete in all the will of God".

• What a valuable service anyone would render to the saints today, as labouring fervently in prayers to bring them into the gain of Paul's ministry, involving the great truth of the mystery, that they might stand perfect and complete in all God's will. The very youngest christian need not have before him anything less than this!

If we look abroad in christendom today, and think of all that has come in in the public history of the assembly, we see how far short we have fallen from the complete will of God.

• The first necessity for recovery is that we take up things in personal exercise before God, so that they might be completed. In Enoch, the seventh from Adam, we have the complete course of spiritual education.

• David was never morally or spiritually greater than when he brought up the ark. This had been the great desire of his heart as a shepherd lad, and he was allowed by God to complete it, as bringing the ark into the tent which he had provided. In that day he delivered a psalm into the hands of Asaph and his brethren.

Then the final thought in Colossians is seen in Archippus, chapter 4: 17. The beloved apostle sent him this word, which comes home to every one that has taken up the work of the ministry:

• "And say to Archippus, Take heed to the ministry which thou hast received in the Lord, to the end that thou fulfil it".

• We feel the immense importance of this, lest we should stop short of the complete will of God. How much there is of going half way – how many have never been fully committed to the Lord and the circle of His interests! What a perilous position they are in!

In 2 Samuel 6: 16 we read that "Michal the daughter of Saul looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before Jehovah; and she despised him in her heart".

• Earlier, it is recorded that she loved David. Indeed, all Israel and Judah loved him. The Spirit of God loves to record the brightest moment in our history, when Christ was supreme in our hearts and had the only place in our affections.

• I would like to appeal to the young, as to whether the Lord Jesus is enshrined in your affections, as the hidden Man of your heart. Jonathan was prepared to strip himself of everything, and hand it over to David, because he loved him as his own soul. The women of Israel celebrated him in their song.

• Doubtless there was admixture, just as there is with many today, but it is said that
  • "all Israel and Judah loved David, for he went out and came in before them", 1 Samuel 18: 16

• Are we like Michal, looking out of a window – regarding Christ at a distance instead of being near to Him? Eutychus, in Acts 20, was seated at a window, as though to keep one eye on the brethren, and the other on the world outside.

• Is there any young brother or sister in that position, not wholly committed to the holy circle of christian fellowship, where the Lord Jesus is cherished, loved, and adored, but keeping an outlook on the world with its powerful attractions? We read also of Jezebel, represented as a painted harlot, thrown down out of a window for dogs to eat.

• The danger of looking out at a window is an ever-present snare, and raises the question as to whether we are merely spectators, or participators in the spiritual activities going on at the present moment among the brethren.

• The Lord would speak to our hearts, that we might feel the powerful attraction of the Lord Jesus, and that He might secure the supreme place in our affections. If He does so, we shall be secured as material for Christ's assembly, and shall adorn the house of God with the spirit of Christ, and so promote His precious interests down here.

I refer to Naaman. He came to the prophet, but in the wrong way; he showed the wrong spirit and went to the wrong person, and then wanted to go to the wrong place; mistakes which each of us is liable to make. Have we come to the right person, in the right spirit, and in the right way?

• Naaman draws up to the door of the prophet, with his retinue of servants and his chariot, and Elisha sends a messenger to him, saying,
  • "Go and wash in the Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean".

• But Naaman was offended, and said, "I thought, He will certainly come out to me, and stand, and call on the name of Jehovah his God … And his servants drew near, and spoke to him and said, My father, if the prophet had bidden thee do some great thing, wouldest thou not have done it? how much rather then, when he says to thee, Wash and be clean? Then he went down", 2 Kings 5: 10-14.

If we take Naaman merely as a picture of a sinner, we may miss the teaching of the Spirit of God.

• It is said at the beginning of the chapter that he was a great man, through whom God had given deliverance to Syria, but that he was a leper. That was his state; and we read that Naaman was angry, and turned away in a rage. I wonder if any of us have been angry thus?

• Cain was angry at the righteousness of God; and the elder brother in Luke 15 was angry at the grace of God, and would not go in. Uzziah the king was angry at the holiness of God, and became a leper.

• Naaman had to learn the great lesson of the ways of God in death; he had to face death; and no one is of value in the service of God unless he faces this great question of death. Naaman went down into Jordan and plunged seven times, and
  • "his flesh became again like the flesh of a little child, and he was clean".

• If every one had the flesh of a little child, there would never be a cause of sorrow to our brethren, or a dishonour to God.

In verse 15 it says that he "returned to the man of God, he and all his company".

• That is a fine tribute to Naaman. In Acts 13: 13 we read of
  • "Paul and his company"

• – I trust everyone of us belongs to it. It is a great thing to form part of Paul's company, but I will never be that unless I have first formed part of Naaman's company, the man who went down into Jordan. He "plunged himself" – an energetic word – "seven times in the Jordan … And his flesh became again like the flesh of a little child", and then he returned to the man of God.

• One loves to think of that return journey. The outward journey had been marked by pride, resulting in failure to take in the situation; but when he returned to the man of God with all his company, and stood before him, it was with "the flesh of a little child".

• What assemblings together we should have, if every one of the brethren had the flesh of a little child! – the characteristics of the old man judged in the light of Christ's death. So Naaman goes on to say,
  • "Behold, I know that there is no God in all the earth but in Israel; and now, I pray thee, take a present of thy servant".

Three simple thoughts come out in this incident: as the fruit of his plunging into the Jordan seven times.

• He gets an enlightened mind. This is essential, if we are to take up assembly exercises and the service of God. So Naaman says, "Behold, I know".

• You will remember that with Rahab you have the same features: she says,
  • "I know that Jehovah has given you the land", Joshua 2: 9.

• So, too, with the beloved apostle, he says,
  • "I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep for that day the deposit I have entrusted to him", 2 Timothy 1: 12.

• In the uncertainty of christendom today, when men have surrendered everything, and there is no certainty in the public profession, it is an immense thing to secure an individual who can truly say, "Behold, I know".

• Naaman wanted to become a giver. It is true Elisha refused.

• And then we come to the third and most important thing. Naaman had an exercised conscience.

• One would pray that our consciences might keep pace with the light the Lord has given. If we fail in this, we shall make spiritual shipwreck. Our consciences must keep pace with the light the Lord gives.

• Naaman becomes exercised as to the house of God. He asks for two mules' burden of this earth to be given him, for he had in mind to take up the service of God in the country to which he was going.

• Then he raises his exercise with the man of God in regard to his going into the house of Rimmon, when his master leaned upon his hand. How beautifully Elisha meets this! – he did not tell him not to go.
  • Had he told him that, he would have been a legalist all his days, and had he given him permission to do so, he would have been loose in his associations; but in divinely given wisdom, he says, "Go in peace"

• We need to be exercised as to our associations; to face the great question of christian fellowship, and to commit ourselves to it. We see the wisdom of Elisha here. He does not forbid him, nor does he give him permission to go, but he says, "Go in peace".

• We have thus the record of Naaman's history with God, and see how these things were brought to spiritual completion with him.

In Genesis 5: 24, the Spirit records of Enoch that he walked with God. One would like to challenge all here, as to whether we know what it is to walk with God. The Spirit of God records the fact that

• "Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him".

• Hebrews 11: 5 too, presents him in a most remarkable way,
  • "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him; for before his translation he has the testimony that he had pleased God".

One would like to appeal to all, even the simplest christian, to cultivate a walk with God.

• There are four men in the book of Genesis who are said to have walked with God.

• It is said of Enoch, and equally of Noah, amid all the increasing corruption of his day.

• It is also said to Abraham, "walk before my face, and be perfect", Genesis 17: 1.

• Finally, Jacob says, "The God before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac walked", Genesis 48: 15.

One feels how fitful one's communion has been, and how little one has cultivated this holy intimacy with God, which is necessary for a man to walk with God.

• The Spirit of God would not put a heavy burden upon us, but He is looking that we might please God, and cultivate a walk with Him, so that it might be said of us, that we too have this testimony, that we please Him.

• I have referred to this testimony because it is said in Jude 14 that Enoch prophesied,
  • "Behold, the Lord has come amidst his holy myriads".

• As we think of the coming of the Lord, one would desire that there may be the completion of our spiritual education, so that we might be taken, as having pleased God, even as Enoch, who "was not, for God took him".

Referring to David in 2 Samuel 6, I suppose we should not hesitate to say that this was the most spiritual moment in David's history; and it is recorded that David danced before Jehovah.

• In David's very earliest days, when he was but a shepherd lad, the thought came into his heart to find a resting place for the ark. I wonder if there ever has sprung up in your heart the desire to find a dwelling place for God?

• We see here that David made a mistake; that he had not sought God after the due order, so the ark was carried into the house of Obed-Edom; and God blessed that household. If there is a house where the ark is valued, God will bless that household, but however blessed we may be, our households are never great enough to contain the ark.

• In Luke 24, the Lord went into the house at Emmaus, and when He broke the bread they discovered who He was. They had besought the Lord to abide with them, but He disappeared out of their sight. We all have to learn that, however supremely blessed a christian household might be, it is not great enough to contain the ark.

• Later, David seeks God after the due order, and the ark is brought into the tent David had provided for it – not into the tabernacle, nor the temple – it pre-figures the present moment.

• The bringing of the ark into the tabernacle may refer to the day of Pentecost, when Christ was publicly enshrined as the ark in the house of God; and then the day is coming when the ark will be carried to its final resting place – the temple.

• But here we get the provisional moment – what may answer to the assembly at Philadelphia. The ark is carried into the tent, nothing outwardly great, but where it is cherished in the hearts of His saints.

• David's exercises were completed, and it is said that
  • "when they that bore the ark of Jehovah had gone six paces, he sacrificed an ox and a fatted beast".

• This was the action of a spiritual man. He had in view the completion of what had been the great desire of his life. The great controlling thought of David's life was to find a place for the ark, and as it was about to be realised, he developed in patience, so to speak, as every spiritual person would. After he had taken six paces, he offered sacrifices of an ox and a fatted beast.

One has thought of this in regard to the great apostle of the gentiles. I suppose we get the completion of Paul's ministry in Ephesians 3, when he bowed his knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ – that was the great completion of his service.

• The burden of his prayer was that "the Christ may dwell, through faith, in your hearts".

• What a resting-place for the ark! The day will come when Christ will be publicly installed in His supreme place in a reconciled universe. Christ will be the centre of it, but the wonder of the present moment is, that the divine end may now be reached. The great end of all ministry in the house of God is,
  • "that the Christ may dwell, through faith, in your hearts, being rooted and founded in love, in order that ye may be fully able to apprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and depth and height; and to know the love of the Christ which surpasses knowledge", Ephesians 3: 17-19.

What a beautiful picture of this we get as David "danced before Jehovah!"

• Then there was the service of song in the book of Chronicles, on that supreme day when David first delivered a psalm into the hands of Asaph and his brethren. That was the outcome of the completion of his spiritual exercises.

• One prays that every brother and sister who takes up the holy interests of Christ may never be satisfied until their secret prayers, their wrestling with God that Christ may secure the supreme place in the affections of the assembly, reach completeness. And that they may see Christ dwelling in the hearts of the saints by faith. David danced before Jehovah with all his might, and he was girded with a linen ephod.

I refer for a moment to the passage in Colossians 4: 12.

• "Epaphras, who is one of you, the bondman of Christ Jesus, salutes you, always combating earnestly for you in prayers, to the end that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God".

• I think we would all admit of what value it would be to the saints in any place, to have an Epaphras amongst us. One who prayed for the saints, day and night, that they might stand "perfect and complete in all the will of God".

• One feels that the prosperity of the local companies, the growth and advance of the saints, and their great support in relation to the assembly, really hangs on this priestly service of intercession. So the beloved apostle could speak of Epaphras and say, "who is one of you, the bondman of Christ Jesus".

• Think of his ceaseless service in prayer, his intercession that the saints might stand "perfect and complete in all the will of God".

• We may see features of the work of God, many precious and holy evidences that the Spirit of God is working in our midst. But if we have the true spiritual outlook, we shall never be satisfied short of this, that the saints stand "perfect and complete in all the will of God".

In closing, one would like to say to the beloved brethren who have taken up service in the house of God, to those who have taken up the great levitical burden of the testimony, that the word that is addressed to you is,

• "Take heed to the ministry".

• What the Lord looks for is fidelity. He looks that you might complete the ministry that He has committed into your hands.

• Remember that the only effective service in the house of God, the only true work of lasting importance, is that of one who is wholly committed to the Lord and to the assembly at the present time.

• Let us see that we complete our exercises with God, for we can never adorn the courts of God with our presence or service, unless we have a secret soul history with God. Our spiritual stature in the house of God is the measure in which we can say, I know God.

• To those who minister and serve, taking up the great burden of the levitical service of God, the word comes, that they should take heed to complete that which the Lord has committed into their hands.