| INTRODUCTION |
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| THE SUBSTANTIALITY OF CHRISTIANITY London, July 27-29, 1954 A. J. Gardiner |
These notes are of the second London special meetings after the departure of beloved Mr. James Taylor Sr. on March 29, 1953.
G.A.R.
| READING 1 |
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| THE SUBSTANTIALITY OF CHRISTIANITY (1) 1 John 1: 1-10; 2: 1-6 |
A.J.G. I was thinking that this epistle stresses the great substantiality of Christianity, that it is a real and substantial thing, marked by life, so that it speaks of
P.H.H. When you used the word 'substance' and 'substantiality' are you referring, first of all, to the way the epistle opens, that which was heard and seen, contemplated, handled?
A.J.G. Yes, the apostle refers to the life which had been before their eyes in the Person of Jesus, not as something that was theoretical or merely doctrinal, but something which they had seen and handled and contemplated.
J.A.P. Is this a reference to Christ in His flesh and blood condition, or does it refer to Him in resurrection as He moved in and out among the disciples during the forty days?
A.J.G. I think it includes both. It was what they apprehended in Christ in His movements amongst them, before He died, and what they saw in Him during the forty days.
A.B.P. The footnote refers to Luke 24.
A.J.G. Yes, because there we get a specific example of that which was handled.
W.C. Does not that scripture link up the two periods? The Lord says
A.J.G. I think that helps. Of course, in taking account of the Lord in flesh and blood condition, before His death, other things were seen as well as eternal life; that is, we see the Lord in the position of testimony and conflict,
P.H.H. Hence such an expression as in Luke 21,
A.J.G. That gives the double side of the life of Christ down here before death. There was the testimony and conflict side, but then there was the secret side, and that is what is connected with this eternal life.
P.H.H. I was thinking of what you said about His secret life with the Father. Would that be hinted at as we are taught by the Spirit in relation to the mount of Olives?
A.J.G. I thought so.
H.D.T. Would that not be in mind when John says,
A.J.G. Yes, I think so.
H.D.T. He does not dwell so much on the Word, but the glory that shone in the relationship that was there.
A.J.G. Quite so, I suppose what they contemplated as recorded in the gospel is very much the way God was coming out in Him,
J.McD. Is the reference in chapter 3 to "see him as he is" additional to what is presented in these verses?
A.J.G. Oh! yes, certainly, "As he is", of course, takes us on to His present position and condition in glory.
F.C.H. Would the passage in Acts 10 bear upon it?
A.J.G. That is so, but that was definitely with a view to testimony being rendered to His resurrection.
F.C.H. Does that scripture in Acts 10 include what was referred to earlier in connection with the forty days?
A.J.G. Oh! it does undoubtedly. It was then that He was seen by the witnesses, but it was given with a view to their witnessing to the fact that God had raised Him from the dead, and in a way, one would suggest, that was all that was in view in that scripture;
P.L. Do you think the fact that the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb are linked on with the twelve foundations in Revelation 21: 14, suggests the impregnable foundation on which all was inaugurated in a trustworthy company of chosen persons –
A.J.G. I think so. I think it helps to take account of the peculiarly privileged position that the twelve were in as companying with the Lord, so that in John 17, for instance, we find the Lord saying to His Father –
that is the divine communications,
E.J.H. And in the beginning of the Acts the one who was to take the place of Judas had to be equal in witness to that which the eleven had known.
A.J.G. Yes, he had to be one who had assembled with them all the time the Lord Jesus came in and went out among them, beginning from the baptism of John to the day when He was taken up; so that, as you say, he had to be one who had the same experiences as the twelve.
H.D.T. Does not the expression
A.J.G. Yes, it does.
P.H.H. How do you regard the Lord's Person in all this?
A.J.G. I think His Person gives character to the life; it was a life lived in constant communion with His Father, but we are brought into it through the testimony of the apostles and by the Holy Spirit.
J.McK. Does the idea of being "manifested to us" involve the completeness of what was manifested?
A.J.G. I would think so. God presented things in their completeness and wholeness at the very beginning, and what John is combating, in his first epistle, is certain suggestions that there was to be a development in Christianity over and above what came out at the beginning.
E.J.H. And there is no lower standard than that for anybody?
A.J.G. No. So that when God brought in man in His creation, He set out the full thought that was in His mind, in the sense that Adam was never a child.
G.A.L. Is the life that was in Christ in that way referred to by Him in John 10: 38 where He says,
A.J.G. Well, that would underlie it; that passage, I suppose, is a question of the truth of His Person.
A.H. Would you think the substance that appears in this remarkable word of John was gathered up from an occasion amongst others, like chapter 13, where he leant on the bosom of Jesus?
A.J.G. I would think so, and what an impression of God John must have got, when Jesus washed his feet and the feet of all the disciples.
G.R.C. Is there any link between this and Paul's expression in Ephesians
A.J.G. I think there is. I have thought of that; will you say something more?
G.R.C. I wondered whether that bore on what was being said as to the Lord's Person. The Person here was no less than God, so that what was manifested in Him was a substantial expression of the divine nature in a man.
A.J.G. Yes, and a perfect answer, in a man too, to all that God was as set out in Himself, so that both sides are in Him, do you not think?
G.R.C. And have you in mind that what came out in Him, in that way, is to give character to what the city is, the cube you spoke of? Is it the formation in the saints of these features?
A.J.G. Exactly. It is God coming out first in Christ and then in a vessel which is His fulness.
W.H.K. Would it be diverting you to ask why, in the beginning of Acts during the forty days when the Lord shows Himself living, He speaks of the things concerning the kingdom of God?
A.J.G. I think that is important because that is what we need. He assembled with them in order to convey to them impressions of the assembly, but He spoke to them the things concerning the kingdom of God;
J.S.E. May I ask if we have to approach the truth of the Person of Christ by way of the substantiality of His place as Man? I thought the term,
A.J.G. Yes, quite so. It is important to distinguish in that way in this epistle. Sometimes when the, apostle says "we" or "us" or "our" he is referring to the apostles, as, for instance, here,
and then again in chapter 4: 6,
P.L. Is there in the two thoughts that blend of authority and mutuality, so essential to the continuation of things here?
A.J.G. That helps, I am sure. Authority in what is apostolic, but mutuality in what belongs to all the brethren.
A.B.P. May we be inclined to think of the twelve as rather slow to move in relation to the heavenly side of things which came out under Paul, and does this balance our thoughts in that to see the distinctive place they had in the foundation of Christianity?
A.J.G. I am sure that is important; so that was there not great substance with them?
A.B.P. Does that expression involve our going into the presence of God?
A.J.G. I am sure it does.
R.J.W. Would you say a little more about verse 2, being in a parenthesis, speaking of life and then eternal life?
A.J.G. It was the word of life that the apostle speaks of; that is to say, the intelligible expression of life, according to God's thought of what life is.
G.C.S. Does that involve the saints dwelling together in unity?
A.J.G. Well, those are the conditions in which it is enjoyed.
G.R.C. Do you regard the expression,
A.J.G. Yes, I think so. I think it was, in a sense, initially set out as unique to Christ, on account of who He is in His Person, but then it says later on,
H.D.T. The Spirit's witness is mentioned in that very connection, in chapter 5.
A.J.G. Yes, indeed. So that it is a very wonderful thing that we have been brought into, the life that is really ours.
P.H.H. Is that hinted at in the use of this word 'fellowship' in verse 3,
A.J.G. That is how I understand it, I think that verse in John 17 is a most impressive verse. The Lord says to the Father
H.D.T. And do you get in John 15 a moral basis for that?
A.J.G. Yes, I would say that.
P.H.H. But, if we may follow up what you were saying, this life is only made known to us in power and in conditions by the Spirit, and that immediately brings in the moral element. Is that right?
A.J.G. It does, indeed, and that is so important. The Spirit has indited for us the gospels and the various epistles, especially this epistle, so that we might have the capacity to enter, in the Spirit, into that which the apostles enjoyed before the gospels and epistles were written.
A.B.P. Does that link again with John 6: 63,
A.J.G. Yes, it does, and I think it is most important for us to notice that immediately this is introduced the moral element is introduced
F.C.H. Why is this put in the form of a message here in verse 5, and again later in the epistle?
A.J.G. I think it is to emphasise the importance of it. It is not just an item of truth, but a specific message, which the Lord gave to John to communicate, and he brings it in at the very outset as though it is a matter of supreme importance that we should understand
P.L. Does the idea of a message bring out the immensity and vitality of having a word straight from Christ, in contrast to the speculations that were floating around?
A.J.G. Yes, I think so. A word direct from Christ to enforce this matter.
P.L. One is thinking of Mary of Magdala in John 20; she is a messenger there too, in another setting.
A.J.G. Quite so.
P.L. Is a message what is specific, concise and final?
A.J.G. Exactly. We can see the importance of this, because, if we refer again to the heavenly city, the transparency of it is stressed; it says
P.L. So that when the moral issue is raised by the Lord with the woman of John 4, after He has enlarged on divine giving, is she not secured testimonially in transparency in her utterance to the men of the city –
A.J.G. I think that is important. Our first introduction to the city, in its millennial character, is that it comes down
E.J.H. In Luke's gospel the Lord speaks of the single eye and the whole body being light, having no part dark. Would you link that with this too?
A.J.G. Yes, I would.
E.J.H. There are dark parts with us all, even though they may be small and perhaps unrecognised, but the thought is that there should be no part dark?
A.J.G. That brings us again, as so much does, to the great value of the abiding presence with us of the Holy Spirit, who is God.
E.C.M. The Lord says in John 3: 21,
A.J.G. That is another striking passage, and one has thought of it. It is a remarkable expression,
W.S.S. I was thinking, when you were speaking of the city, of the street which is said to be of
A.J.G. I am sure that is right.
G.R.C. So that this line, which you are speaking .of, would be the way in which we reach fulness of joy according to verse 4?
A.J.G. That is another encouraging thing, that fulness of joy is in mind for us all; the Lord could speak of "my joy".
H.D.T. It is remarkable that John should state his object before he enlarges upon such a searching line of things.
A.J.G. Exactly, you mean that that would encourage us to face all that is searching?
H.D.T. Yes, quite so.
W.C. May we infer that this message came from the breast and the bosom of Jesus, in that way?
A.J.G. I think that is very likely. It is striking that just following on that Judas goes out, as though there is power in the light and love to exclude a foreign element.
G.R.C. Would you mind saying something as to the thought of light? It says here,
A.J.G. He is light, so that it says in Ephesians 5: 13
W.H. "In thy light shall we see light".
A.J.G. I suppose it came out fully at the cross, because there evil was exposed and fully judged consistently with God's nature, but love shone out as rising above it all.
G.P. In Acts 5 the apostles are charged by the angel to go and speak in the temple to the people
A.J.G. That is very interesting; one has often thought of that expression
J.A.P. What is the thought of "the blood" here?
A.J.G. We are coming to that shortly. It is that by means of which we are able to continue in fellowship with one another, notwithstanding what our flesh is.
H.F.R. Does His being "in the light" involve the declaration of John 1: 18?
A.J.G. I believe it is a very important matter and involves the full light that has come to us.
A.B.P. There is only one street in the city, is there not?
A.J.G. Quite so.
P.H.H. Would that shed any light on the early chapters of Genesis, where God called for light first of all, and then named it, and then operated in it?
A.J.G. I think Mr. Taylor has remarked that it is a principle of God's ways that He works in the light, so that the first thing is that He commands light, and then, as you say, He operates. Had you that in mind?
P.H.H. Yes, as being different from God dwelling in "unapproachable light". We can never know anything about that, I suppose, but there is that which God has called for and in which He operates, and would it be right to say that the whole of the revelation really is involved in that?
A.J.G. I think so.
G.R.C. Do you think the fact that we are told that God dwells in "unapproachable light" is to stress the idea of light, though we cannot approach that light?
A.J.G. Yes, quite so, I think that is important, so that darkness is not connected with the thought of God at all.
H.D.T. This has the effect upon us in view, has it not, and is the way to come into the thing to be affected by it morally? It says in Psalm 97: 11,
A.J.G. Exactly.
A.P.C.L. If we understand that God is light, does not that become attractive to us, because light will bring us into contact with God Himself?
A.J.G. Quite so.
A.P.C.L. Do you not think there is a tendency with us rather to fear light and coming into the light, whereas, God being light and not only "in the light" stresses what He is Himself – perfect goodness, does it not?
A.J.G. Exactly, but, of course, the natural heart of man does not understand that, and hence the grace of the way in which God has approached men in Christ.
A.P.C.L. Quite so. But is not that where we so often fail in the presentation of light, not knowing what God is. He is light?
A.J.G. Quite so.
E.J.H. Would you say that light exposed her, but grace retained her?
A.J.G. Yes, we could indeed say that, and then in the process of retention, so to speak, she would learn that the very light that exposed her also brought in what would meet her need, both were there in the Person of Christ.
J.H. Light comes to us and not we to the light exactly?
A.J.G. No; but it comes to us in order that we may come to the light. We get the verse in John 3, that has already been quoted,
W.S.S. Have we not been very blessedly learning latterly something of what it is to walk, perhaps in a fuller way, in the light of the revelation of God known as Father, Son and Holy Spirit?
A.J.G. That is exactly what I thought. If we read that
W.S.S. And are we not finding practically that the result of this wonderful help we have had is opening up the truth of the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in one way and another all through the Scriptures?
A.J.G. Yes.
W.C. Is not the light the light of love?
A.J.G. It is, because God is love.
W.C. I think Mr. Raven said 'the light was relative, but the love was absolute'.
H.D.T. May I ask what connection has grace and truth with this light according to John 1?
A.J.G. I suppose grace and truth are the light adapting itself to man in his condition of need. Obviously grace is needed, but not grace at the expense of truth; so we have there the wonderful combination of grace and truth.
P.L. Would it be right to say that the light of the Trinity, in the way you have spoken, is to give body to the fellowship, as also preservation to us in it?
A.J.G. I think so. It brings the light of love, as has been said, and yet love in absolute holiness.
A.S.M. It says in Psalm 43: 3,
A.J.G. That is good. The light and truth as received by us bring us to God; they have that in mind and they lead us to God and His holy habitation.
T.J.G. Is the thought of substantiality seen in the expression
A.J.G. Yes, I suppose so, "sons of light" are those fully developed by the light.
A.B.P. You have referred to John 4 several times, do we have the matter worked out in remarkable fulness there,
A.J.G. Yes, that is very interesting and the "must" is important. In having to do with God, God being God, there is a certain "must" that has to enter into our relations with God; our relations with God must be in keeping with what He is.
P.H.H. Is there a certain magnifying of that light in John 14, where the three Persons of the Godhead are brought before us objectively, each one to be taken account of and approached? Is that light given perhaps in a more private way, affording help in this great matter?
A.J.G. I think it does, and it leads up to the Lord saying,
P.H.H. I would like to ask, if it is not going astray from the line, for a little word about the sonship of Christ. It says in the end of verse 3,
A.J.G. There is no doubt a distinction, but not, in a sense, too hard and fast. We get, for instance, in chapter 5: 12,
P.H.H. Yes, I think that distinction helps, because we are, as you have just quoted, to arrive at
A.J.G. It does, and yet, of course, those scriptures are speaking of the Son as in manhood;
E.J.H. Has it been said, by Mr. Raven, that "the Son" is the highest and greatest title of the Lord?
A.J.G. I could not say whether he has said that, but it is true, I think.
G.R.C. Would you say that there is no thought in Scripture of others being associated with Him under the title of "the Son", but there is with the title "the Son of God"?
A.J.G. Yes.
W.C. Is not "the Son" the line of the revelation of God, and "his Son" more the response to that, including making room for others to be with Him?
A.J.G. So that we have received the Spirit of His Son, God having sent out the Spirit of His Son in our hearts. The response thus from the saints should be adequate to satisfy the heart of God.
G.C.S. What is the difference between this fellowship and the fellowship in 1 Corinthians 1: 9,
A.J.G. That is more in a public and testimonial position and refers very much to the position of the tribes in the wilderness round the tabernacle. They were all committed to that one common interest, and it is dignified for us by its being called
A.M. May I ask for help as to the perception of light? I was thinking of man as having a conscience and as to how light gains entrance to him. Is that to be in our minds as to the moral side that is always raised when it is a question of light?
A.J.G. I think that is right, only we have to bear in mind the great subject of being born anew,
A.M. Quite so.
A.J.G. So that we have to carry in our minds that apart from the sovereign operation of the Spirit we cannot see things.
J.McD. Would you distinguish between the different aspects of fellowship here?
A.J.G. Yes, but there is not such a lot of difference between them, except that the apostles had a distinctive place in the inauguration of Christianity, so that the early believers
A.P.C.L. Is there the suggestion of having fellowship with God in verse 6?
A.J.G. Quite so. "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness …"
W.W.M. The Lord says in John 12: 36,
A.J.G. Yes. So that John's gospel was written so that disciples might become believers, as Mr. Taylor has said.
C.H. Is it appropriate to ask for the answer to the question about the blood? Does it not come in in connection with this fellowship?
A.J.G. Yes, it is a very important matter.
C.H. So that whilst the light is attractive, as has been said, it also makes manifest; but then the divine provision is there for what it does make manifest?
A.J.G. Exactly.
P.L. The efficacy of the blood, is it?
A.J.G. The efficacy of it.
F.C.H. Is the thought that the fellowship is maintained on its proper level?
A.J.G. Quite so. So that there is no need to surrender the divine standard,
G.R.C. Would you say why John, as a writer, stresses the blood so much; he is the only one who refers to it at the crucifixion?
A.J.G. It may be because he has in mind that the saints should be in the truth livingly. What do you think yourself?
G.R.C. I was thinking of what you have been saying as to God, the greatness of God, and God being light. John is writing from the highest level but he brings in the blood in a remarkable way.
A.J.G. Quite so. Well, the blood testifies to the complete ending in death of the man that is offensive to God.
A.McG. Referring back to what was said earlier about light and love, is it not essential to remember that both love and light are God's nature. Mr. Darby stressed that, did he not?
A.J.G. Yes. God is light and He is love, but then He comes into the light in order that men may know what He is and be fully and happily in it.
A.P.B. Is there a particular importance in bringing in the blood in view of the additions and doctrines that are current in the world?
A.J.G. I think that is important. We shall come to that in chapter 5, where it says,
W.C. Does verse 9 refer to the water, the cleansing,
A.J.G. I think so.
G.R.C. Could this be an elevated view of the blood, because it is
A.J.G. Quite so; it links with the scripture in Acts 20: 28 that God has purchased the assembly
G.R.C. So in Ephesians 1 Paul speaks of the blood of the Beloved. He says,
A.J.G. Yes. Redemption through His blood.
P.H.H. Does that bring in any thought of the immense sacrifice in love that God has made? I was thinking of that verse in Acts 20: 28,
A.J.G. Quite so.
J.S.E. Does the present tense of the verb bring into relief the peculiar value of "the family" in its stainlessness for God's pleasure?
A.J.G. I think it does. Do you not think it should be very affecting to us that God has in mind that we should always be walking "in the light", clear of every defilement?
W.C. Is not the practical side of that the "confessing"?
A.J.G. That is a very important matter.
W.C. I think we need help as to that, when matters are settled with God, you might say, in a secret way, but the confession of sins and cleansing is in relation to unrighteousness, is it not?
A.J.G. Well, if an assembly fails it should confess its failure, as an assembly. The expression "if we confess our sins" is not our sins in a general way, but it is naming them before God, would you not think so?
W.C. Yes; I was thinking of the teaching in Leviticus and the bringing of the offering before the tent of meeting before Jehovah.
A.J.G. Quite so.
T.J.G. Are we then to understand that this confessing is not only to God, but if needed to men or in the midst of the assembly?
A.J.G. Well, if needed. Scripture makes provision for all that. But I think it is important that in confessing, the thing is named; it is not a general thing, but the thing is named.
C.H. Here it is particularly before God, do you think, because of the cleansing? No action of the assembly could actually cleanse, could it?
A.J.G. No, "if we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness".
A.W.G.T. You made a distinction between "admission" and "confession", I wonder if it would help the brethren if you said something as to that?
A.J.G. Well, if the particular sin is confessed before God, the true nature of it is named, that is all I had in mind, that we should be specific.
J.D. Is the confession of our sins in the light of the blood of Jesus Christ the moral basis on which the fellowship is enjoyed?
A.J.G. I am sure it is, and it is most important that it should be continually maintained by us. But then, on the other hand, the apostle goes on to say
A.B.P. Does all this hinge on walking in the light as He is in the light? What does that mean, "as he is in the light"?
A.J.G. I think it means that all our walk is governed by the light in which God is known to us, do you not think so?
A.B.P. Does it mean that what the Spirit has brought before us in the way of disclosures of the truth would be the light in which He is?
A.J.G. Yes, it does.
Ques. And would that provide fellowship of a substantial character?
A.J.G. Fellowship of a substantial character that is governed by the light in which God is known. Every fresh recovery of truth to us ought, therefore, to have its effect upon our relations with one another and our service God-ward.
A.B.P. And does the detail that is given in relation to the moral side of things show that the light will constantly bring to light in us things which need to be judged and dealt with, so that we are constantly moving into fresh appreciation of the light?
A.J.G. I am sure of that, and constant appreciation of Christ as the One in whom there is the perfect answer in manhood to all that God is.
P.H.H. Do you take it that the expression,
A.J.G. I think what comes to us in the way of ministry and detail is just the opening up in detail of the way in which God has come out.
P.H.H. Would it, therefore, perhaps sharpen our consciences and make it a more sensitive matter with us all the time?
A.J.G. I think so.
J.S.E. Is not that seen in the course of years, during the development of the truth amongst us, that certain things that we would not have connected in relation to the light years ago, we have to do so now, and we have to be more intense about them?
A.J.G. I am sure that is right.
P.L. So that every ray of divine light works out in mutual affection for one another; as the light is the more enjoyed the saints are the more loved?
A.J.G. I think so, and that promotes care for one another too, so that later on in this epistle we read of one seeing his brother sin; he is not careless about it, but he immediately takes it up with God.
W.C. In 1 Corinthians, the moment Paul mentions the fellowship, he beseeches them to be of one mind and one opinion.
A.J.G. There cannot be fellowship, in the full sense of it, if there is not one mind and one opinion.
A.P.C.L. Do you think that John's reference in the beginning of chapter 2 to "my children" is on this line? In chapter 1 it is "we" – "these things write we to you" and "this is the message that we have heard".
A.J.G. It is "my children", that is, it is John's children. He is addressing all the saints, whether in their stature they are fathers or young men or little children they are all, you might say, John's children, and he is addressing them in that affectionate way. It is clearly the spirit of the elder rather than the apostle.
A.P.C.L. I wondered whether that might enter into ministry in these times?
A.J.G. It might, but I suppose it requires a certain moral power to be able to speak like this.
A.P.C.L. I wondered whether chapter 1 was not the setting out of the thing, which is unchallengeable and unquestionable, but now it is a matter of his own moral stature in writing in saying "my children" and "I write to you, children"?
A.J.G. So that those to whom he wrote would understand that it was John writing, and all that John was, as one who was perhaps peculiarly formed in holy love, would enter into these exhortations, do you think?
A.P.C.L. I thought that and, therefore, if that was so, there would not be so much questioning as to authority in the ministry.
A.J.G. I do feel that this is one thing that perhaps this epistle may help us in, the importance of taking on substance and genuineness and reality, because then moral power in the ministry will follow.
F.C.H. Is it not very appealing that it is the One whose blood cleanses us, who is our patron?
A.J.G. Quite so, and He is always in the Father's presence in the value of His own Person and work. We have, it says,
P.L. One whom the Father has and could deny nothing to?
A.J.G. Quite so.
G.R.C. Is His service as the patron in view of maintaining the fellowship here inviolate? It does not simply say the one who sins has a patron, but
A.J.G. Well, yes. This thought of the patron is a wonderful thing; He is there for all the saints, all the family of God. "We have a patron" – He is always there.
P.H.H. Is the emphasis on the fact that He is with the Father?
A.J.G. I think so.
P.H.H. So that the position is maintained as has been said; it must go through.
A.J.G. Quite so.
H.D.T. There is an extension, of course, in the thought of propitiation, is there not?
A.J.G. Yes. He is it;
A.P.C.L. Is the suggestion "if any one sin" that it really brings in something that is foreign to this wonderful system?
A.J.G. Quite so.
A.P.C.L. Therefore, he is presenting one that is able to meet the situation perfectly?
A.J.G. The patron, you might say, gives the answer to it immediately Himself.
A.P.C.L. Do you think, therefore, there is the necessity for maintaining, in a certain sense, an objective ministry of Christ?
A.J.G. I am sure that is important.
W.D. Why does John keep testing the position?
A.J.G. Because he has in mind that things should go through in the power of life, and that they should not be corrupted.
W.D. He was specially fitted for this ministry.
A.J.G. Yes, he was one who is regarded as going right through. The Lord said in regard of John,
A.H. Would he have seen this service of Christ in operation when the Lord said to Peter
A.J.G. Well, yes, quite so. Now the position is established,
C.W.O'L.M. Would you say a little, please, as to
A.J.G. It is stressing the moral side of things, that He is the righteous. We might have thought it would say, Jesus Christ His Son, stressing the relationship of affection, but it is rather stressing the moral side of things;
G.A.L. In the effecting of the propitiation, He has glorified God entirely about the whole question of sin, has He not?
A.J.G. He has. It is a most important matter always to keep that in mind.
J.S.E. Is the word 'patron' not exactly connected with relationship itself, but with the management of the relationship which He looks after?
A.J.G. Yes, I think so.
G.W.B. Would you say another word as to the meaning of "propitiation" in this setting?
A.J.G. Well, God's nature and His throne required that sin should be unsparingly judged, and Christ has met every requirement of the throne and every demand of God's nature by the sacrifice of Himself.
H.W. Is that why, in the last line of verse 2, the sins of the whole world are not mentioned, it is a propitiation for the whole world?
A.J.G. Yes, I suppose it is because it is provisional. Mr. Raven used to say that it meant that the world was provisionally in reconciliation, and I suppose that position remains until they set up another man, antichrist.
H.W. So the whole position is covered by this wonderful act of propitiation?
A.J.G. By the wonderful act and by His personal presence before God.
A.H. Is the propitiation always connected with sins and not sin?
A.J.G. Yes, I think so.
| READING 2 |
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| THE SUBSTANTIALITY OF CHRISTIANITY (2) 1 John 2: 3-29 |
A.J.G. We have a good deal in this chapter as to abiding in Christ, involving fixed conditions by which we are preserved, and where we commenced reading we have one of the many tests that the epistle provides, by which we are intended, as it were, to check up as to where we are and how far we are really governed by the truth.
E.J.H. Would you say that on this line there is nothing neutral and nothing optional?
A.J.G. Yes, I would say that – nothing neutral and nothing optional.
J.G.M. What is the distinction between "His commandment" and "His word"?
A.J.G. The commandments I think always refer to what is essential and imperative and, in a sense, they stand for all time,
H.D.T. Implying confidence, does it?
A.J.G. Yes, and the making known of His mind. One has often thought of Mary of Bethany; it says of her,
J.S.E. Does that explain the commendation of Philadelphia?
A.J.G. Yes, I think it does. It says they kept His word and did not deny His name, the word indeed having first place there.
A.P.T. In Luke 5 the Lord puts a word to Simon Peter; he hesitates momentarily, but then he says, "at thy word" – would that be for the moment?
A.J.G. "At thy word I will let down the net".
A.H.G. Why is this keeping of the word linked up with the love of God?
A.J.G. I think the word would bring to our hearts what God has in mind to bring us into, so that the more we keep His word the more we become confirmed in the sense of the love of God.
H.C. Does it link up with the verse in John 14 you quoted this morning?
A.J.G. I think it is very useful to link it up with that. First of all in John 14: 21 the Lord says,
– that is the Father and the Son –
W.S.S. So that would you say this is a constant exercise in connection with the unfolding of the word continually?
A.J.G. I think so, and I think we can see that the word of Christ would be constantly fresh.
W.S.S. Wonderful possibilities in hearing it and keeping it?
A.J.G. Yes.
G.R.C. Would the promise to the overcomer in Philadelphia suggest the communications that might be bound up with His word, when He speaks of
A.J.G. I would think so, but would you say a little more?
G.R.C. I was wondering whether the commandments would relate more to what we speak of as the principles of fellowship, but if they are kept it makes way for the unfolding of the divine mind and secrets really as to God Himself and His city and the Lord's new name.
A.J.G. I am sure that is so. I think it helps to see that there is the idea of commandment in 2 Timothy 2: 19,
P.L. Would Deuteronomy 33 suggest that,
A.J.G. I would think so.
F.C.H. It says in the word to Philadelphia in Revelation 3,
A.J.G. That is what the Lord values so much and that is what I am sure we need to keep in mind constantly.
R.J.W. What is the difference between 'the word' and "the word of his patience" as in Revelation 3?
A.J.G. I do not know that I see much in the way of difference, except that it stresses that the present time is a time calling for patience or endurance.
J.A.F. Would the keeping of His word imply that we are to be formed by it and give expression to the truth in that way?
A.J.G. Oh! surely. What is in mind really is that God should come into expression in the saints; He came into perfect expression in Jesus and now that is to be worked out in the saints.
L.F. Is that why it says here
A.J.G. Yes, the one marked by keeping His word is kept in the constant enjoyment of the love of God.
W.S.S. Should we not always be on the look-out for fresh unfoldings of the word as they are treasured up in the Scriptures and made known by the Spirit?
A.J.G. We should, I am sure.
W.S.S. Do you not feel there is something about us all which gives us an impression that we have reached finality, whereas what we have is infinite, is it not?
A.J.G. That is so.
A.B. Would David's mighty men be an illustration of keeping his word? One was thinking of his desire for water from the well of Bethlehem, and how those that were near him broke through and it yielded much to him and to God in result?
A.J.G. They were near enough to him to know his longings.
A.H. Would you say a word as to this remarkable assurance at the end of verse 5 –
A.J.G. John has in view that we should arrive at fixity, I think, so he speaks of such things as "abiding" – we have later on in the epistle
A.B.P. Is there some intimate link between what we are saying and
A.J.G. I am sure that is so.
P.H.H. Reminding us of the word in Hebrews 4, would you say; that is, that God Himself is in His word?
A.J.G. That is good. That scripture first of all deals with everything that needs to be discerned, and, if need be, exposed, but then the final result of it is that we are left in the presence of God.
E.J.H. Why is such a strong word as 'liar' used? Later it speaks about hating your brother.
A.J.G. Because of the urgency of maintaining the truth livingly and in its purity.
A.C.S.P. What have we to learn from the fact that the assumption that "I know him" is linked with not keeping His commandments?
A.J.G. It is just an assumption; it is assuming to know the Lord or to know God and yet being marked by lawlessness.
P.H.H. Implicitly, would such a person, a 'liar,' be morally linked on with the devil? I am thinking of the word in John 8 where the Lord, speaking of the devil, says
A.J.G. It does, so that in the book of Revelation every liar finds his place in the lake of fire.
W.D. Cain was marked by these features; he was a murderer and a liar.
A.J.G. Quite, so. We shall find that in the next chapter, if the Lord will, Cain is brought in as the one who was of the wicked one, the one through whom Satan's influence first took form in, you might say, a progenitive way.
C.H. The scripture quoted just now from John 8 seems to give just that extension you are speaking about, for the Lord goes on to say,
A.J.G. Quite so. It says "he", that is the devil, "is a liar and its father",
A.H.G. Could we have a little help as to what is involved in the expression "in him" –
A.J.G. Well, that may be either in Christ or in God. We come to it in the last chapter of this epistle where it says,
– that is 'in God' –
A.B.P. Is this more than status?
A.J.G. It surely is, because it is a question of what we know.
Eu.R. Has not Mr. Taylor connected 'abiding in the Son' with the solar system?
A.J.G. Well, Mr. Raven often did and I have no doubt Mr. Taylor has too. Mr. Raven often remarked about John's writings being linked up with astronomical ideas, so that just as the earth is kept in relation to the sun, so the believer is held in relation to Christ.
F.C.H. Is it challenging and salutary to keep in mind how very near Satan is to us in all these things? I was thinking of what is said of Satan himself, transforming himself into an angel of light.
A.J.G. That is so, and it is particularly stressed in John 13 where the most precious things are set before us.
P.H.H. Do you think that the family, as John speaks here of "my children" and then presently "children", then in the next chapter "children of God", is calculated to keep us right and free from these elements and growing in the truth?
A.J.G. I do.
P.H.H. I was thinking that it needs more than ministry; does it not need the affectionate surroundings, where the saints are and where, you might say, divine Persons are near and at home?
A.J.G. I am sure that is so. Cain has been alluded to, and we find, in connection with his history, that it says that Eve bore Abel his brother.
A.B.P. Cain is never called 'a brother,' is he?
A.J.G. No, he is not, but Abel was his brother.
W.C. Is not Peter in John 6 an example of one who was maintained in his orbit in relation to Christ? It speaks there of some that "walked no more with him", but Peter says
A.J.G. Yes, quite so.
W.C. Is that the secret? There is the Person and His communications, and it held Peter and those with him and he could say "we", could he not?
A.J.G. Yes, and the result contemplated is that we should abide in Christ. In the next chapter we find that whoever abides in Him does not sin, so that,
E.J.H. Would you say that as soon as Cain had a brother, his brother became a test to him, as our brethren are a test to us in that respect as to whether there is truth in the inward parts?
A.J.G. Well, maybe, they are sometimes a test, but they are a great encouragement, comfort and support and that is what God intends in the circle of the brethren.
E.J.H. I was feeling that we may have jealousy or other feelings in our hearts towards our brethren, or toward a brother, so that each one of us has to be maintained in constant self-judgment?
A.J.G. Quite so, but Abel only became a test to his brother because Abel maintained the truth.
P.H.H. Would it be right to say here that the individuals mentioned are characterised by certain things,
A.J.G. Yes, I think so, and hence he brings in now this commandment in the section from verses 7 – 11. I suppose the commandment is love; he says,
J.T.S. Is it interesting that the old commandment is
A.J.G. The 'word,' I take it, would be the impression they would get from Christ, do you not think?
J.T.S. Something more than what He said, what they had found expressed livingly in Him?
A.J.G. I am sure of that, and therefore it was following on His laying aside His garments and taking a linen towel, and pouring water into a basin, and washing their feet, and wiping them with the linen towel with which He was girded, that the Lord said,
J.W. "Which thing is true in him and in you".
A.J.G. It is the substantial side, exactly.
G.C.S. Do you think that the saints love one another more than they ever did? The injunction you are giving us is necessary, but is there not an evidence today that there is more love in activity to one another than ever there has been?
A.J.G. I think it would be true to say that, but then the word is "more and more"; that is what Scripture says.
W.S.S. With regard to the words just quoted
A.J.G. Yes, I think so.
W.S.S. The character of life that was in Jesus?
A.J.G. Quite so.
Eu.R. Does Philippians 2 bear on that,
A.J.G. Yes, I think that links with this, so that you might say that the darkness is passing. The world around is all darkness morally, and becoming more and more so, but in the circle of the saints there is the true light shining.
R.G.B. Would this make our local settings peculiarly attractive to us? I was thinking of the local setting as where divine love can be peculiarly experienced and where love can be worked out in our relations with one another.
A.J.G. Yes, I am sure that is important, because it is in our local settings that we are near to one another, and the circumstances of each and the composition of the local company are all ordered of God with a view to the development of His own nature in the saints.
E.C.M. Does Peter's word help –
A.J.G. So that the holding to the truth works out in "unfeigned brotherly love", and that really, as his second epistle shows, and as this verse in the first epistle shows, leads on to love,
E.J.H. And there is no respect of persons with God, so there will be no partiality?
A.J.G. Quite so.
W.C. Does not the beginning of Ephesians 5 give it the setting in a local company?
A.J.G. Yes, and Christ becomes the standard, so that one who is abiding in Christ will learn to move as He moved.
W.C. The family of God is in mind in the expression "as beloved children"?
A.J.G. Yes.
P.H.H. Do you think that our sins having been forgiven for His name's sake would lay a common basis with us all for drawing near together and loving one another?
A.J.G. I am sure it would, and do you not think the sense that we have all had to have sins forgiven, and that they are forgiven, would help to subdue us?
P.H.H. I wondered whether the different grades and stature would be a help to us; it would not be a hindrance that there were the different ones and some were further on than others. Should all that be a help to us in the family?
A.J.G. Well, it certainly should. Fathers would be an example and an encouragement to those who are children.
G.R.C. Would you say another word as to the relation between the "new commandment" and the commandments in the plural?
A.J.G. I think so. We might have the truth, and be in a position as separated from evil according to 2 Timothy;
G.A.L. Does verse 8 of our chapter in a peculiar way stress the importance of the Holy Spirit by which we are made partakers of the divine nature and thus have the capacity to fill this out?
A.J.G. Yes, I think so. That is what I had in mind in saying that I think one can see more and more that the way that God has met what came in through sin is by entering into the position Himself, first in Christ and then in the Spirit, the Spirit given to the saints.
J.McK. When the apostle says "the darkness is passing" is he engaging us with the sphere where this divine work is proceeding in the saints? Is that where it is passing?
A.J.G. Yes, I understand so. It is not passing in the world, for
G.R.C. In Revelation 21 that you referred to this morning it has passed completely.
A.J.G. Yes.
J.McK. I was wondering whether the glory of what is brought out in the first chapter, what is manifested and reported, is now having a commensurate answer in the saints as the darkness passes?
A.J.G. That is what is in mind.
H.F.R. Would you say something as to the way the Lord is brought into this,
A.J.G. Well, it says in Ephesians 5: 14,
H.D.T. Is it remarkable that the character of the love is shown by what the Lord said in John 15: 9
A.J.G. So that it was the abiding portion of Christ as Man here, that He abode in His Father's love. But He did it on the principle of keeping His commandments, and now He is suggesting that we should take on exactly the same feature.
H.D.T. Would not that make for the continuance and stability of the whole position?
A.J.G. It would.
H.W. Would you connect what has just been said,
A.J.G. I think I would, because it involves the putting off of the old, and then the putting on of the new, and Christ is really the setting out of the features of the new.
H.W. Why does it say "in Jesus" and not "in Christ"?
A.J.G. I think to direct our thoughts to Jesus personally and not simply to Him as in a kind of official position.
C.W.O'L.M. What is involved in the expression "the true light"?
A.J.G. I take it it is the true light of God, in contrast to all that is false in the world around. There is a great deal that is false religiously around us today and it was increasing very much in John's day so that it is a question of the true light.
J.McD. Is there a link with what we have here and the true light in John 1, where it is applied to the Lord?
A.J.G. Yes, I think so; quote the verse, please.
J.McD. The reference to the Lord Jesus in John 1: 9, "the true light". Is it the continuation of that now, exactly the same light in the saints?
A.J.G. That is what is in mind, that what came out in Christ is now continued in the children of God.
W.S.S. And it says, "and the true light already shines".
A.J.G. It is shining, yes; that is the whole point.
A.B.P. Was Paul vitally in the gain of this in 2 Corinthians 4 when death was being taken on in a practical way, and yet he rejoices that while death is working in himself and those with him, life is working in the saints? Is that the way this works out in a practical way in relation to one another?
A.J.G. Yes, it is. Is it not a question of laying down our lives, in principle, for the brethren? It may take many forms, but that is the idea.
A.B.P. He seems to me so in the gain of the light
A.J.G. I am sure that is so. He says there
A.P.C.L. So that does the question of the "occasion of stumbling" in verse 10 flow really out of the matter of our abiding in the light?
A.J.G. Yes, that such an one does not provide any occasion of stumbling.
A.P.C.L. It is not the erring one in that sense, it is
A.J.G. Well, quite so; if one abides in the light one's movements will be consistent with the light, and they are not likely to cause any occasion of stumbling.
C.H. There seems to be an immediate connection between love and light; it says,
A.J.G. I suppose it is important if we love our brethren that we should be exercised to abide in the light, otherwise our very influence over our brethren, through loving them, may result in their being turned aside, do you not think?
C.H. That is really what I wanted to get at, because I am sure we are all concerned to get at the truth, as the governing feature of this section, but do you think it would help greatly if love were in activity at the same time?
A.J.G. Quite so, but all must be governed by the light. God is not only light, but He is "in the light" and the light in which He is now known is to govern us in all our movements.
C.H. We so often separate it in our minds?
A.J.G. Quite so.
A.H. Is that seen in the case of Paul and Peter at Antioch?
A.J.G. It is, Paul was governed by the light. He loved his brother, but his love was regulated by the light, and therefore he rebuked his brother when his brother was taking a wrong course.
E.J.H. Does that add to brotherly love, love?
A.J.G. Yes.
H.D.T. Paul would speak in love, of course, would he not?
A.J.G. Oh! he would indeed.
H.D.T. I was thinking of what you have often remarked on in Corinthians,
A.J.G. Well, quite so, love would govern Paul in his withstanding Peter to the face, but he did withstand him to the face.
H.D.T. Because he was to be blamed?
A.J.G. Yes.
W.D. When writing to Philemon. Paul says,
A.J.G. I have no doubt that is right, but what are you referring to in relation to Peter's ministry, and John's and Paul's?
W.D. The name Archippus in verse 2 of that epistle means 'governor,' which would link with Peter's ministry, and Apphia means 'faithfulness' which would link with Paul's ministry and Philemon's name links with love which would be John's line.
A.J.G. Paul shines in his epistle to Philemon by the Spirit of Christ that marks him, so that he says to Philemon that if Onesimus owes him anything that was to be put to Paul's account.
A.L.R.T. Do verses 9 and 10 show what a lot hangs upon one's attitude of heart towards one's brother? I was thinking of one's way as to the light and the truth?
A.J.G. I think it is a matter for all of us to bear in mind, and perhaps more so as we get older, that if we become aware of having any influence at all among the saints our responsibility is all the greater to abide in the light and to follow up the truth, or else the very influence we have got may tend to turn the brethren aside.
A.B.P. Does the use of the word 'brother' here mean that this is not simply a doctrinal matter, but in our local settings we have the ways and means of working it all out in a practical way?
A.J.G. I am sure that is important, so that it is not a general idea or theoretical idea, but the local company is where the truth is worked out.
P.L. So that each grade is clothed with family glory and feelings; it prevents the looking down upon the young, do you think?
A.J.G. Indeed, he has more to say to the little children than to any of them, showing the affection there is with him and his care for them.
P.H.H. Who are the fathers?
A.J.G. Those who are marked by this feature, I would say.
P.H.H. Would that mean maturity through companying with Christ?
A.J.G. Well, I suppose it can be worked out now amongst the saints. There are none, of course, that were in the company of Christ amongst the saints now, but there are fathers who by the Spirit's work have just got Christ before them.
P.H.H. Yes, I was just thinking that. The thing really shines in John, he saying "my children" means a fatherly element. Would that work out in what has been learnt in the delightful company of Christ being passed on to the family?
A.J.G. Yes.
G.R.C. Was fatherhood, in that way, fully seen in Jesus?
A.J.G. He addresses His disciples as "children" in John 13 and John 21. Is that what you had in mind?
G.R.C. Yes. I had that in mind; He says
A.J.G. Yes.
E.J.H. It speaks about young men, but it does not say anything about old men. The next stage is fathers, I was not thinking of age,
A.J.G. Well, quite so. At the end of Psalm 45 it says,
A.P.T. Would you help us in regard of the verse
A.J.G. Well, I think it should be. Fathers are those who have an influence because of their affection for the saints and because of what they are, in moral power, so that they can exemplify the truth.
H.D.T. Do you think it may shine in a relatively young person?
A.J.G. I think it might; I think Timothy was really a father.
H.D.T. It says of Hezekiah, when he was only 25 years old, that he gathered the Levites and addressed them as
A.J.G. Yes.
A.P.T. Paul says, following up that very expression in 1 Corinthians,
A.J.G. Quite so. Timothy really would bring the father before them in a way, because it would not be exactly an impression of Timothy he would leave, but an impression of Paul.
A.P.T. My thought was, without proceeding any further, the difference between the thought of the father and the ten thousand instructors.
A.J.G. That is a word for us all, I am sure. We may all be more or less clear as to the truth and able to set it out,
G.A.L. Do you think the expression
A.J.G. What have you in mind when you say according to His glory in John 1?
G.A.L. The glory of His Person and the great glory of the incarnation – God manifest in flesh. It says,
A.J.G. Well, I think it would involve a definite appreciation of that, and, of course, in all that we say in regard of our appreciation of Christ and our knowledge of Him,
A.W.G.T. Is that in keeping with the scripture in Ephesians,
A.J.G. Yes, and that we are to grow up unto Him in all things.
A.B.P. In Acts 1 Peter says
A.J.G. That covers it, I think. It is all that they learned in Christ, and that is what John is insisting on, because he was countering what was then prevalent and is still, of course, prevalent in the Christian profession, that there is such a thing as development.
J.T.S. Does this take us back to verse 1 of the epistle,
A.J.G. I think that is right. The expression "the holy thing" introduces the idea of substance, what is substantial, but then what is born testimony to, and what is the basis of this epistle, is that which they apprehended in Christ from John's baptism till the time of His being taken up.
P.H.H. There was no admonition in this first address, verse 13. John says,
A.J.G. Yes, and, as you say, he has no special exhortation to the fathers. It is sufficient that they have known and know Him that is from the beginning, but they are included in the exhortation in verse 28,
T.J.G. Does not the footnote to the word 'known' in verse 13 suggest that a certain state is produced by this knowledge and that that state continues?
A.J.G. Yes, it is important to see that.
C.H. It also applies to the word 'overcome,' does it not?
A.J.G. Quite so.
C.W.O'L.M. Is there any difference between
A.J.G. It makes it more personal. The thought is the same, that we go back, in our minds, and maintain what was from the beginning, but then it was set out in Christ.
J.McG. Beloved Mr. Taylor said that the fathers have come to a right appreciation of Christ as presented in the four Gospels.
A.J.G. I am sure that is the thought. We want all four Gospels to get a full view of Him that is from the beginning.
H.D.T. That involves the Lord in His present position, does it not?
A.J.G. Yes, quite so.
Eu.R. What is the import in his saying exactly the same thing twice to the fathers, as to the Son?
A.J.G. Just to stress it, I suppose; that is all that is necessary.
H.A.H. Would the little children knowing the Father link with the reception in Luke 15?
A.J.G. Well, it links, I take it, with the reception of the Spirit. Every true believer, as having the Holy Spirit, has received a spirit of adoption whereby we cry "Abba, Father"; even the little children know something of that, as having the Spirit.
J.S.E. Would it be right to think of Mr. Darby, at the Plymouth and Bethesda crisis, as shining in the character of a father, cherishing all that was due to Christ, because of his own knowledge of Him?
A.J.G. I am sure that is right. What gave Mr. Darby his power in standing for the truth and in ministering it was his knowledge of Christ. You can see that in his letters and in his ministry.
E.J.H. Why is there a distinction between "the world" and "the things in the world"?
A.J.G. I venture to think that it is "the things in the world" that we are much more in danger of than the world itself.
A.B.P. Do you think that the classification –
A.J.G. You connect the "lust of the flesh" with the body, "the lust of the eyes" with the soul, and "the pride of life" with the spirit of a man?
A.B.P. Yes.
A.J.G. That is suggestive, I think, if we may refer to the types, the children of Israel were delivered from the world when they were brought out of Egypt, but it was the things of the world they had to face in overcoming Jericho.
A.H.G. Does this reference to children suggest established relationships with the Father right from the early days?
A.J.G. Yes, I would think so. If we take account of the Father, He has a world of His own, and the Son is the centre of it, and the Son gives character to that world, so that all that the Father loves and that is going to give character to His world is to be learned in Christ.
H.D.T. Were you going to say any more about Jericho?
A.J.G. Well, Jericho stood athwart the progress of the people of God as they were about to enter into their inheritance, and I think it is the things of the world that hinder the saints. It may be small things, but they hinder the saints from entering fully into their inheritance.
H.D.T. Was their salvation to remain outside of it all? They encircled it outside, did they not?
A.J.G. Well, yes, but then they had to overthrow it; it had to come down before them.
A.C.S.P. Does the matter of the hiding with Achan, and the deception with Ananias and Sapphira, link with the darkness you were speaking of this morning?
A.J.G. It would. It is significant that before the matter of Achan had come to light they are confronted by Ai, and they are marked by self-confidence, and think it is only a little town, and so they send only a few men to smite it.
A.J.G. Hence John in this epistle shows the true character of the world as God sees it.
F.C.H. Achan spoke about a beautiful mantle of Shinar. Does that suggest that Achan had not judged it?
A.J.G. Quite so, so that it is Christ who is the great portion of the fathers,
A.B.P. Why is it referred to as the unction?
A.J.G. I suppose it is the Spirit as particularly affecting the mind, and giving intelligence in the things of God. Would you think so?
A.B.P. Does this word link on with the thought of an unguent? There seems to be a process involved?
P.H.H. It is the same as anointing.
A.J.G. Yes, it seems to be power in relation to the things of God, power to understand the truth and to detect and refuse what is contrary to the truth.
H.D.T. Would it involve the development of what is instinctive?
A.J.G. Yes, I think it does involve that.
G.R.C. Does it not mean in that way that the Holy Spirit equips us with all the five spiritual senses, the sense of smell, taste and touch, hearing and sight spiritually?
A.J.G. Yes, I would think that.
P.H.H. Do you see anything in the use of the word 'antichrist,' that is Christ, as a word, meaning 'the anointed' and this great paragraph being full of the unction or the anointing.
A.J.G. Yes, I think so. And while verse 22, no doubt, has a certain Jewish bearing, I think it is important,
W.C. Could you say a word as to the character of strength in the young men and the word of God abiding in them? Does that refer to intelligence in the truth?
A.J.G. I am inclined to think so.
W.C. I was wondering whether the little children have not arrived at that, they have got instincts to preserve them?
A.J.G. I think that is the general bearing of the passage. The young men are sound in the truth, and, therefore, would detect and refuse anything that was antichristian,
P.L. So they are potentially viewed as on their feet, are they not, in the power of the unction? It is there.
A.J.G. Yes, quite so, potentially.
A.B.P. I wondered if this is not important in relation to the young people amongst us.
A.J.G. I am sure that is important. It helps, I think, to bear in mind that
A.W.G.T. And would the process that has been suggested be confirmed in the fact that the neuter is used, the unction?
A.J.G. Well, here it is said that "the same unction teaches". So that while there is instinct, there is also that which becomes intelligent; the unction teaches.
A.P.C.L. What is involved in
A.J.G. Just that they are made entirely independent of human learning. It does not mean that they do not need teachers whom the Lord has given as gifts to the assembly; it simply means that they are entirely independent of human learning.
A.P.C.L. Having been brought into a circle where the Spirit Himself resides and where everything flows in Him?
A.J.G. So that a little child having the Spirit, knows far more than the most educated man who has not the Spirit.
J.S.E. Does this "anyone" refer to those outside the family,
A.J.G. Yes, I think so. But I suppose, while in no way despising or ignoring gifts, it would help us to cultivate making room for the Spirit, as has been said, so that we are conscious that the Spirit Himself teaches us.
H.D.T. The gifts the Lord has given convey the light to us, but they do not operate in the soul. It is the Spirit that does that.
A.J.G. Quite so.
P.L. So that things are only reached substantially and tangibly in the Spirit?
A.J.G. Exactly.
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