Menu•SiteMap | Doctrine








The Lord's Coming


 

Introduction
Reading – 1894 – J. B. Stoney
The Rapture? – What Scripture – W. Kelly



S. P. Tregelles Quotation
1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18

 


INTRODUCTION


The blessed hope of the coming of the Lord is dear to the hearts of all true lovers of the Lord Jesus.

It is generally conceded that the truth of the Lord coming for His own prior to the great tribulation was – after centuries of ignorance – revived among the "early brethren".

It may come as a surprise that brethren – among whom this truth was revived and still cherished – deplore

At the other extreme there are those who – in an audacious attempt to discredit "the word of the Lord" in 1 Thess. 4: 13-18 – attribute the origin of this precious truth to the wild utterances of a discredited and extinct sect.


Other pages relating to J. B. Stoney:
Biography: J. B. Stoney
History: Early Years – Recollections: J. B. Stoney
History: A Review of Truth: J. B. Stoney
Ministry: J. B. Stoney
Doctrine: The Person of Christ
Other pages relating to W. Kelly:
See references on Guests: My Stand 2: W. Kelly

G.A.R.

Page Top


THE  LORD'S  COMING
Revelation 22: 15-21
J. B. Stoney, 1814-97

The following is an extract from a reading at the annual meetings in Quemerford, Wiltshire, 1894.

This was three years before the Lord called His beloved servant to Himself, after having been laid aside with illness for two years.


Ministry by J. B. Stoney, New Series, 2: 469-480.

See also Ministry: J. N. Darby - 4:
Lectures on the Second Coming of Christ
.

Key to Some Initials (? = unsure):
? James Boyd, ?
D. L. Higgins, Highgate
Joseph Pellatt ? London
F. E. Raven, Greenwich
T. H. Reynolds, Burford
J. B. Stoney, Scarborough


J.B.S. The first thing here is the fact of a distinct communication from the Lord. "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and offspring of David, and the bright and morning star".

Rem. Being interested in His interests would be part of it.

D.L.H. The thought here is not our going up to Christ, but His coming to enter on His rights.

J.B.S. The prominent idea is that Christ is coming to reign. You could not have the day without the morning star. There is first the rapture, for when He comes, we come with Him.

Ques. Is there not the fact of the rapture in verse 17.

J.B.S. The rapture is included, but there is more. The first wave of His power manifests it self with reference to His own. All who belong to Him will be brought under the effect of it.


D.L.H. Has the truth of the rapture taken too prominent a place with us so as to obliterate the thought of His coming to take His rights?

J.B.S. Exactly. Responsibilty is lost sight of. His coming is looked for because He will take us out of all trials here.

J.P. Is it the rapture in John 14?

J.B.S. It is so only by inference. It is to take them to Himself. It involves the rapture.

J.P. What is the "Where I am", is it the Father's house?

J.B.S. The point is Himself, to take them to Himself.

T.H.R. In that chapter it is all carrying them to His side.

F.H.B. In John 14 you do not get the idea of reigning.

J.B.S. No; but any true heart would not think of being with Him without thinking of His rights. "I will come for you", not send for you.

D.L.H. If the rapture were not unfolded in 1 Thessalonians we should not have thought of it in John 14.

F.E.R. If we had not 1 Thessalonians 4 we should know nothing about the rapture.

Ques. Is not the rapture in 1 Corinthians  15?

J.B.S. That is not the subject, but the resurrection. There is more about the day than the rapture in 1 Thessalonians. In chapter 1 we have waiting for God's Son from heaven which was to set up His kingdom.

J.P. Does not "all be changed" in 1 Corinthians 15 refer to the rapture?

F.E.R. It does not refer to it. The rapture refers to our being "caught up", not to being changed.

Ques. What then is the mystery there? "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed".

F.E.R. The change is not the rapture. The rapture is catching up. The mystery is the change.

J.B.S. It only shows how the rapture is before your eye, and not His coming.

F.E.R. I think putting the rapture in 1 Corinthians 15 spoils the whole force of the passage; it is what takes place on earth, not the rapture.

J.B.S. The object is the resurrection of the body.

J.P. Is not the proper hope of the church the Lord's coming for her?

F.E.R. I would say the Christ Himself is the hope of the church, all other thought of His coming is merged in this, all is merged in Christ. When the hope is realised, the church is merged in Christ; all is found in Christ.

J.B.S. I agree with that thoroughly.


J.P. What is the effect of looking for the rapture?

J.B.S. Looking only for the rapture produces laxity, because your thought is that you will be taken out of all here.

J.P. But the Spirit did not reveal it for laxity.

J.B.S. No, surely not; but they were full of the appearing. There is no fear but you will be right as to the rapture, if you are right as to the appearing.

F.E.R. I think the right thing is to think of the Person who is coming. If the Spirit and the bride say "Come", it is to some One.

J.B.S. Yes. Such an One is coming. I do not believe any but the bride could understand the communication. You must be near enough to hear it and to respond to it.


D.L.H. Does not, "Ye shew forth the Lord's death till he come" associate us with Him as the One rejected from this scene during that rejection till he recives His rights?

J.B.S. Yes. "Till he come" embraces the whole interval from His rejection here till He come and is owned as rightful King.

T.H.R. "Till he come" is His coming into eveything that is His. I should think of the coming of the Lord as bringing God into this scene – and what it will be to Him to do that, not how it will affect us.

J.B.S. Yes, as Enoch was looking for the Lord to come with ten thousands of His saints, and yet he is caught up himself.

F.E.R. A person is not rightly looking for the Lord if he is not in His interest here.


J.B. Just go back to John 14, I am not clear as to what you said about that. He said it to comfort their hearts.

J.B.S. He was comforting them to stay here, not to take them away. He was going to leave them, and to comfort their hearts during his absence, He says, "I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also". To take them away was not His immediate object.

J.B. But He was going to take them away to Himself after a bit.

J.B.S. Ah, yes, that is just it, "after a bit", we all agree to that; but He leaves you here first. He has left you here a good long bit, and He comforts the heart during the time with the promise, "I will come to you", meaning Himself.

F.E.R. It was in regard to feelings about saints who had died that the rapture is brought in. It was comfort about the dead, not about the living.

J.P. What is our "gathering unto him" in 2 Thessalonians 2: 1? Is it the rapture?

J.B.S. Not exactly. It is included. In John 14 the rapture is inferred, but not stated. That and 1 Thessalonians 4 are the only places where the rapture is referred to.

D.L.H. It is important to see that the revelation of the rapture is only introduced to comfort the saints about their dead, not to comfort them about themselves.

F.E.R. In Revelation 12 the rapture is involved in the catching up of the man child; it must include the church as well as Christ, but then Satan is cast down.

J.B.S. … The idea that if the Lord were to come we should be caught up produces laxity, if dissociated from the truth of "the day".

Ques. What is the hope of seeing Him as He is?

J.B.S. What could delight your heart more than to see Him as He is? Hence remember you must like to see Him. This promotes responsibilty.

H.H. Hence the rapture is a means to an end?

J.B.S. Yes. Who is really waiting for Him? The one who is occupied with His interests here, but you cannot be in concert with His interests if you do not realise union with Him.

Page Top


THE  RAPTURE  OF  THE  SAINTS:
WHO  SUGGESTED  IT,
OR  RATHER  ON  WHAT  SCRIPTURE ?
–  WILLIAM  KELLY
This article is from "The Bible Treasury",
No. 92, August 1908, New Series, 4: 314-318.
See My Stand 2: W. Kelly and His Ministry


W. Kelly, 1820-1906 When a bitter adversary of the Christian's heavenly hope sought many years ago to stigmatise it as having a foul and even Satanic origin, there were questions, in which he was compromised, too serious for any who weighed their import to notice so unworthy an insinuation.

"I am not aware that there was any definite teaching [i.e. in the early days of the Plymouth movement] that there would be a secret rapture of the saints at a secret coming, until this was given forth as an utterance in Mr. Irving's church, from what was there received as being the voice of the Spirit.

What must one think of a polemic who would extract an envenomed shaft to injure, if he could, the apostle Paul's preaching and teaching of "salvation", from the utterance at Philippi of the maiden with a spirit of Python?

But let us turn from surmise to such facts as exist; for both assailed and assailant are departed.

Of that light which later shone on the heavenly side of the Lord's coming he speaks rather differently.

The difference is this, that he expressly excludes "man's teaching" in the first case, which he does not even imply in the second.

Now it so happens that, during a visit to Plymouth in the summer of 1845, Mr. B. W. Newton told me that, many years before, Mr. Darby wrote to him a letter in which he said that

On the other hand Mr. Newton knew, as well or better than most at this time of day, such of the Newman St. oracles as reached ears and eyes outside.

But Irving was at least honest and outspoken; and however erring as he surely proved, God kept him personally from the evil energy which wrought in those to whom he bowed down with abject superstition, and took him away comparatively young but worn out, contrary to their confident predictions.

But I willingly bear my testimony to Mr. N. that he never to me thought of attributing the source of the so-called doctrine, the rapture of the saints, to that seducing spirit.

Further, when Mr. N. named to me the disclosure of Mr. D.'s old letter, things had reached a very high temperature, and on no question more than the one before us.

On that humiliating breach there is no call to speak here. It was followed about two years subsequently by the distressing discovery of a systematic heterodoxy, one part of which, singular to say, appeared in the Second edition of the vol. 2 of the Plymouth "Christian Witness", an article of BWN on the Doctrines of Newman St.

But this failed to satisfy those aggrieved. Mr. N. did confess his awful sin "in holding that the Lord Jesus came by birth under any imputation of Adam's guilt, or the consequences of such imputation"; but he put a similar issue on His being made of a woman.

It is plain that this system is semi-Irvingite, and though rejecting sinful humanity, comes to the same result of overthrowing His person directly, and indirectly the work which depends on His person.

If there had been no letter from Mr. D. to Mr. N. stating the actual source, it was a rash and wicked surmise to say or think that "it was from that supposed revelation that the modern doctrine and the modern phraseology respecting it arose".

On the face of it, the "supposed revelation" [among the Irvingites] declared that, within three years and a half, the saints would be caught up to the Lord, and the earth wholly given up to the days of vengeance.

The oracular utterance was grounded on the ordinary system, which Mr. BWN shared, of making the Lord's coming a link in the chain of prophecy.

Whatever men think, scripture (in the capital seat of the revelation of Christ's coming for the church, 1 Thess. 4) is express, that the dead in Christ shall rise first; then we the living that remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Ah, yes; but the "modern phraseology" – that tells the tale! Is it then that "the rapture" betrays the tainted source beyond a doubt?

An early use of the word "rapture" for actual removal out of the present scene by power is by Shakespeare (Pericles, Act 2, sc. 1, near the end).

But let us pass to the graver roll of divines, which any can verify without trouble.

From the Episcopalians of that early day I turn to Non-conformists, not so far back but by no means modern;

The last that we need is the respectable Dr. John Guyse, who wrote the Practical Expositor (i.e. of the N.T. in three quarto vols.). The Second ed. of 1761 now lies before me.

  • These quotations are the more seasonable, as whether Anglicans or Dissenters they were little conversant with the blessed hope. Nor was anyone more uninstructed than Dr. G.

    It is no question of omniscience in man, but of the inspired truth God was pleased to give.

    Here the mistake corrected in the First Epistle is mixed up with the error which the Second dispels. They are quite distinct.

    Again, what misconception of the hope as a whole can be more profound than to represent that the later epistles gradually modify the earlier "expectation of His almost immediate coming" (Sect. iv. 8, p. 49)?

    Thus then the rapture of the saints is not a mere catching up into the air in a moment, to come down again with the Lord the next, which seems to be the strange, hasty, and narrow conclusion of some men; but even Matt. 13 might correct them.

    Ps. 110, so often and boldly urged for Christ's rising from the Father's throne at once to take His own in the new age, leaves room for these great events which lay outside of Israel's hopes, and are here passed by in silence.

    Not less suicidal is the notion that after Christ has received the wheat and executed final sentence on the darnel in Christendom, the lawless one "was still existent", and "undismayed by all he had witnessed", instead of being annulled by the appearing of the Lord's presence (Thoughts on the Apocalypse, 1st ed. 298).

    Now this is the staunch champion of the school implacably hostile to allowing any but one act of coming.

    Magna est veritas et praevalebit. Who before could anticipate such an acknowledgement from BWN?

    The criticism then, in order to deny the "rapture", evinces not only a captious spirit but real ignorance.

    Need it to be pointed out that "the modern doctrine", if of any weight, assumes that the rapture of the saints by Christ to the Father's house is not the doctrine of God? But this is the question for revelation to decide.

    Take this illustration from a still more solemn subject, though not strict but sufficient to help, if the enemy were seeking to destroy faith's confidence by the terror of the great white throne.

    Page Top


    1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18, JND
    13 But we do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them that are fallen asleep, to the end that ye be not grieved even as also the rest who have no hope.
    14 For if we believe that Jesus has died and has risen again, so also God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep through Jesus.
    15 (For this we say to you in [the] word of [the] Lord, that we, the living, who remain to the coming of the Lord, are in no way to anticipate those who have fallen asleep;
    16 for the Lord himself, with an assembling shout, with archangel's voice and with trump of God, shall descend from heaven; and the dead in Christ shall rise first;
    17 then we, the living who remain, shall be caught up together with them in [the] clouds, to meet the Lord in [the] air; and thus we shall be always with [the] Lord.
    18 So encourage one another with these words.)
    Return to audacious attempt.

    Page Top


    Dr. S. P. Tregelles
    Under The First Appearances of Secret Rapture Teaching, page 45 of B. W. Newton and Dr. S. P. Tregelles – Teachers of the Faith and the Future – 2nd Edition 1969, The Sovereign Grace Advent Testimony, London – George H. Fromow says,

    "Dr. S. P. Tregelles has recorded for us the origin of this teaching in his book The Hope of Christ's Coming, How is is Taught in Scripture and Why? (page 35 of the fifth edition).

    "Dr. Tregelles wrote: 'When the theory of a secret coming of Christ was first brought forward (about the year 1832), it was adopted with eagerness; it suited certain preconceived opinions, and it was accepted by some at that which harmonized contraditory thoughts, whether such thoughts, or any of them, rested on the sure warrant of God; written Word".

    There follows the quotation given above by Mr. Kelly.

    Mr. Fromow goes on to opine, "If the exact terms used by Dr. Tregelles are noted, allowance can be made, that suggestions of a 'secret coming' were put forth a few years earlier, some say at the first Albury conference in 1826; but the precise date does not alter the fact that it was a novel doctrine".

    Return to Quotation.

    Page Top